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"Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/8/2008 1:42:50 PM

Maestro

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OK, let's go for yet another fun experiment.

The goal is to create a blend in which the whole is better than the sum of the parts, by blending two or more wines priced under $15 a bottle.

Before we start blending madness for real, I thought we'd begin this as a thought experiment.

The idea is to blend and aerate together wines that will strengthen each other's qualities and see if we can fool ourselves into believing that the resulting blend tastes like a $100++ wine.

My gut feeling is to have a base of friendly Cabernet Sauvignon and blend the others on top of it. I am tempted to suggest the 2007 Concha y Toro Cabernet Sauvignon Casillero del Diablo ($9) as the first wine and build the rest of the structure on top of it.

I think the best bet is a big and aromatic wine on top of the CS. Maybe a Syrah or a Petite Syrah. Or maybe a Zinfandel. But we will also need something to show "restraint" and prevent it from tasting like a fruit bomb. Maybe a Cabernet Franc from the Loire...

I also think varietals that are hard to blend (e.g., Pinot Noir, Nebbiolo) should be avoided.

What do you think? Provided that the wines are under $15 and widely available I'd be happy to try multiple "recipies".

< Message edited by Maestro -- 10/9/2008 2:49:09 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/8/2008 4:35:51 PM

kelpcowboy

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Maestro,

You could blend in some of that Mollydooker you have been pouring out lately. You would, however, have to use an older vintage as the new releases are over the $15 budget.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/8/2008 9:16:13 PM

mjobtx

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Just pour the dump bucket back into a bottle and be done with it.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/8/2008 11:32:15 PM

NiklasW

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How about a Malbec from Argentina to add to the Casillero del Diablo? Something like Norton Malbec Reserva?

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 1:21:31 AM

pjaines

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Malbec could be good - especially one that is not so full as the Concha y Toro cab. Could add a bit of grip to the wine.

You are a devious man, Maestro.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 3:53:27 AM

Maestro

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Good idea with the Malbec.

So I am thinking that I would start the blend with 1 full bottle of the Concha y Toro CS and half a bottle of the Malbec (probably the Norton, or maybe an Altos or Zapata, depending on whether they would come under $15).

We are now at a blend containing 66% Cabernet Sauvignon and 33% Malbec.

My guess is to add another 2-3 varieties, of which one should be Cabernet Franc from the Loire. The amount of Franc would depend on the rest of the blend.

What else do you guys think could work?

PS: Maybe if we get the "recipe" ready in time some of us can try "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" in the upcoming Virtual Tasting...

< Message edited by Maestro -- 10/9/2008 3:57:21 AM >

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 4:11:46 AM

pjaines

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You need Merlot to soften it out, but also you dont need too many ingredients otherwise you'll end up with one of those wines with 300 grapes in it (I think there was a thread about this recently).

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 4:21:57 AM

Maestro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pjaines

You need Merlot to soften it out.

Yeah, I thought about Merlot, but do you have a suggestion of a good Merlot under $15 that could go into the blend?

If we stick with Cabernet Sauvignon, Malbec, Merlot and Franc we will actually make it a valid Bordeaux blend...

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 4:51:18 AM

pjaines

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No one has actually asked the question why you are doing this, Maestro.

Do you have a vendetta against some wine wanker and you want to prove they have no taste for good wine?

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 5:37:12 AM

Maestro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pjaines

No one has actually asked the question why you are doing this, Maestro.

Do you have a vendetta against some wine wanker and you want to prove they have no taste for good wine?

I am doing it for the fun of it... That simple. Wine is fun...

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 5:39:30 AM

pjaines

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Fun? Not this morning it wasn't for me. That 2nd bottle seemed like such a good idea at the time......

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 10:53:18 AM

esb

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Just for fun, how about . .

Young Chinon, Cabernet Franc with oaked '03 Washington Merlot, or

Lodi Zin with unoaked '07 Barbara d' Alba. This last combination doesn't point in any particular direction, but it may make the Zin drinkable.

Or,

'06 Ringland Shiraz with young Pinot Noir. Confession, this idea was stolen from Lynn Penner-Ash, who, surprisingly, combined the two varieties successfully. Intended result, same as above.

Blanc

Big, lightly oaked or no oak Napa Chardonnay that sits there fat in the glass complaining, with cool vintage Alsatian Pinot Blanc. Result, Chablis.

California Pinot Gris with dry Finger Lakes Riesling, splash of Okenogen (sp) Muscat and juice of two Granny Smith apples. Result, Willamette Valley Pinot Gris.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 11:07:51 AM

pbm

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I have to weigh in on this. Taking from Paul's comment, unless you're getting back at W.A.W. I have to say that I'm not comfortable with the whole concept. Taking advantage of someone's inexperience or ignorance is not likely to do much for the already snobbish reputation wine drinkers tend to have and just isn't particularly cool in my book. Of course, if it is a W.A.W. situation I'll send you a bottle of 2-Buck Chuck to put into the effort. In fact, now that I think about it, Paul, isn't the W.A.W. in your office the perfect target?

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 12:53:57 PM

Maestro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbm

I have to weigh in on this. Taking from Paul's comment, unless you're getting back at W.A.W. I have to say that I'm not comfortable with the whole concept. Taking advantage of someone's inexperience or ignorance is not likely to do much for the already snobbish reputation wine drinkers tend to have and just isn't particularly cool in my book. Of course, if it is a W.A.W. situation I'll send you a bottle of 2-Buck Chuck to put into the effort. In fact, now that I think about it, Paul, isn't the W.A.W. in your office the perfect target?

No, no, no. I don't plan to fool inexperienced people. The goal is to fool people who know more about wine than I do. People who have been drinking and collecting wine for years.

Some of you got this thing completely upside down. I don't even have anyone in mind for the "party". The whole idea is to discuss the challenge -- i.e., enhancing cheap but solid wines by blending them. Just like esb is theorizing above.

For all I care I may never do the blind tasting. I am just curious about the blending possibilities, that's all.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 2:04:19 PM

pbm

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Maestro,

Please know I didn't intend to call into question your character in any way. You're one of the most helpful, kind people on here. I just couldn't tell from your initial posts what the whole motivation was. Given your last post it's more clear to and I apologize for any inadvertent mischaracterization on my part. I do think, as you've explained, that it would be an interesting experiment.

Peter

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 2:46:07 PM

Maestro

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No harm, pbm...

I changed my first posting to reflect what I actually want to do...

Back to the wine, I think I'd like to try the Beringer Founders' Estate Merlot 2005 ($8) as the Merlot component, and blend it possibly with the same ratio as the Malbec (i.e., half of that of the Cabernet Sauvignon).

So far it is suggested as 50% Cabernet Sauvignon, 25% Merlot and 25% Malbec (before blending the Cab Franc).

The suggested wines are 2007 Concha y Toro Cabernet Sauvignon Casillero del Diablo ($9), 2006 Norton Malbec Reserva ($15) and the Melot mentioned above.

The last thing to add should be a Cabernet Franc. But before we do that, what do you think of the wines and ratios so far? It is a valid Bordeaux blend and these wines are quite solid on their own. Could we make a 90-pointer blend?

< Message edited by Maestro -- 10/9/2008 2:50:41 PM >

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 2:51:46 PM

pbm

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I don't know the Beringer Merlot specifically but given the overall power of CA merlot perhaps a merlot from Washington State might provide a bit more balance? I'm just going on stereotypes here so it may not make a difference.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 2:54:11 PM

pbm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbm

I don't know the Beringer Merlot specifically but given the overall power of CA merlot perhaps a merlot from Washington State might provide a bit more balance? I'm just going on stereotypes here so it may not make a difference.

Given this tasting note you may be on the right track with the Beringer:

Tasted by n8540 on 4/7/2008 & rated 83 points: Tried it in an airport lounge. A good merlot that isn't overdone. Good nose, decent midpalette and short OK finish (the acid is a little out of balance). Nothing spectacular, but it would make a nice everyday wine if the price is right. (243 views) - report issue | favorite author

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 3:21:15 PM

jhannah27

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maestro

Could we make a 90-pointer blend?

Yes...add all the scores from these wines up...and you will get 90.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 3:22:29 PM

jhannah27

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maestro

Back to the wine, I think I'd like to try the Beringer Founders' Estate Merlot 2005 ($8) as the Merlot component, and blend it possibly with the same ratio as the Malbec (i.e., half of that of the Cabernet Sauvignon).

So far it is suggested as 50% Cabernet Sauvignon, 25% Merlot and 25% Malbec (before blending the Cab Franc).

The suggested wines are 2007 Concha y Toro Cabernet Sauvignon Casillero del Diablo ($9), 2006 Norton Malbec Reserva ($15) and the Melot mentioned above.

This seems pretty fruit driven to me. I think you would need at least 10% Cab Franc to really cut the fruit and get the herby, tobacco notes. This is a decent one that goes for around $15. http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=432287

The bigger problem is by now you have created a wine that you have spent approximately $40 on, and lord knows what the outcome will be.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 3:55:32 PM

kelpcowboy

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Maestro,

How about:

         50% 2007 Concha y Toro Cabernet Sauvignon Casillero del Diablo ($9)
         30% 2006 Carlos Basso Malbec Reserva ($12)
         20% 2005 Eliseo Silva Merlot ($10)

Should hit all the right notes with enough left over for a decent beef stew.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/9/2008 6:36:17 PM

Blue Shorts

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jhannah27

This seems pretty fruit driven to me. I think you would need at least 10% Cab Franc to really cut the fruit and get the herby, tobacco notes. This is a decent one that goes for around $15. http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=432287

The bigger problem is by now you have created a wine that you have spent approximately $40 on, and lord knows what the outcome will be.

I think that the only thing that can save this "witches brew" would be pure grain alcohol, drunk in large quantities prior to tasting the wine.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/10/2008 1:00:37 AM

Maestro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kelpcowboy

Maestro,

How about:

         50% 2007 Concha y Toro Cabernet Sauvignon Casillero del Diablo ($9)
         30% 2006 Carlos Basso Malbec Reserva ($12)
         20% 2005 Eliseo Silva Merlot ($10)

Should hit all the right notes with enough left over for a decent beef stew.

Kelpcowboy,

I don't have access to the Carlos Basso and the Eliseo Silva, but the principle is similar to what I am thinking about.

Two questions: why more Malbec than Merlot? and would you not want to add Cab Franc?

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/10/2008 5:31:00 PM

kelpcowboy

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Maestro,

I would suggest more of the Malbec in the interest of structure (the South Americans build some awsome juice) and less of the Merlot as you don't want too much of the fruit bomb. Franc should be an after thought of maybe 5-15% only for complexity and less if it is American. I actually like building these Frankenteins once I realize I am out of Vac-U-Vin stoppers and need to clear off some counter space.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/11/2008 7:04:28 AM

Maestro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kelpcowboy
I would suggest more of the Malbec in the interest of structure (the South Americans build some awsome juice) and less of the Merlot as you don't want too much of the fruit bomb. Franc should be an after thought of maybe 5-15% only for complexity and less if it is American. I actually like building these Frankenteins once I realize I am out of Vac-U-Vin stoppers and need to clear off some counter space.

Good point about the Merlot. Maybe we keep it down to avoid too much of a fruit-forward blend.

As for the Franc, I am thinking about blending the Domaine Grégoire Bourgueil ($10, either the 2005 or 2007 vintage).

So, here's my current thought experiment:

50% Concha y Toro Cabernet Sauvignon Casillero del Diablo ($9)
25% Norton Malbec Reserva ($15)
15% Domaine Grégoire Bourgueil Cabernet Franc ($10)
10% Beringer Founders' Estate Merlot ($8)

The blend would have fruit from 4 countries (Chile, Argentina, France, and the US), which is interesting.

The average rating of all these wines together is in the 83-86 range. The question is whether the blend will rise above it as a whole that is more of the sum of the parts, or colapse into an utterly disjoint thing...

We shall see...

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/11/2008 7:04:28 AM

Maestro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kelpcowboy
I would suggest more of the Malbec in the interest of structure (the South Americans build some awsome juice) and less of the Merlot as you don't want too much of the fruit bomb. Franc should be an after thought of maybe 5-15% only for complexity and less if it is American. I actually like building these Frankenteins once I realize I am out of Vac-U-Vin stoppers and need to clear off some counter space.

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/11/2008 2:12:17 PM

pbm

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Maestro, did you have a chemistry set as a kid?

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/11/2008 10:07:54 PM

Wrighty

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Maestro - you got me mixing it up last night. I had a cab franc which was struggling and some left over fruity cab sav so mixed the two. It definetely improved the cab franc and the first blend gave the cab sav a little more structure, I then went the whole hog and topped it up with the cab franc left in the glass which was too much. I've got some more left so will do the same again tonight and try to be a little more scientific in measures at least.

It also got me thinking. As wines are restricted in most case to regions let alone countries perhaps there is a better international wine out there taking the best from each place as your suggestion; fruity new worl cab, Argentian Malbec, Loire Cab Franc, etc... Why wouldn't it be better than taking a grape that's suitable to a region and blending it with other grapes which might be less suited. Think you're on to something - International Wine.

Wrighty

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/12/2008 7:12:39 AM

J2K

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Back to the Ferment?
Back to the Fruit Bomb?
Maybe this concoction will take you back in time and pick up some classic vintages at low prices !

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RE: "Le Plonk Élégant Rouge du CT Forum 2008" - 10/12/2008 8:00:09 AM

Wrighty

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Well the cab sav is on it's 3rd night and holding up well. I started with about 20% franc to the sauvignon. I could pick it up on the nose but not the palate, I then pushed it to 30% which was when the greenness started to come through but also some structure.

I left it there but might arrange a blending night based on Maestro's experiment, I'm already think of what wines I can get in HK to do it with and I'd say the percentages look good.

Wrighty

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Post #: 30