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Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 1:27:00 AM

Paul S

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Hi all,

I am trying to put together a Ducru Beaucaillou vertical with a few friends, we've gotten the 1985, 1986, 1995 and 1996 vintage together. Now I need some advice on which order to open the bottles and, while we're at it, whether any of them need decanting.

What do you guys think?

Post #: 1

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 4:07:12 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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I usually try and go worst to best, but also youngest to oldest, so we have a clash here.
I think this would be my order (don't open the links unless you want the Parker write-ups):
1995   http://www.farrvintners.com/wine.php?wineid=1528
1996   http://www.farrvintners.com/wine.php?wineid=1533

1986   http://www.chateauclassic.com/produit.asp?id=130985
1985   http://www.chateauclassic.fr/produit.asp?id=130973

It's a very interesting selection, I sadly have few Ducru in my cellar, but have done an '86 vs '83 (and others) comparison and it held up well vs classy competition.
Cheers,
L.

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RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 6:18:58 AM

cgrimes

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I like that order but opposite. In such tastings I like to taste the oldest first so the tannic structure of the younger wines does not dull my palate.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 3

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 6:45:28 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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Don't you even save the best piece of meat as your last bite?
L.

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Post #: 4

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 7:05:22 AM

Paul S

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Hi Colonel Lawrence, I am really fortunate to come across these few vintages. The 85 and 86 were bought from someone who was clearing out his cellar. The 1996 was on sale by my usual merchants on a one off discount, the 1995 is sourced from a friend who might be tasting with us too. I guess we are very fortunate to be able to have all of these come together and make a really ineresting comparison.

I see what you both are saying about the tasting - the tannins of the younger wines are my concern as well, although conventional wisdom dictates that we taste youngest to oldest. However, while the 1985 and 1986 are solid years, the 1995 and 1996 seem to be two of the best back vintages of Ducru in recent memory. In any case, while these wines are younger, they are not exactly your fresh off en primeur tannic monsters. Thanks for the tips so far though.

What do other people think?

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 5

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 7:16:51 AM

rbazinet

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Paul,
Mmmm, sounds good. Can you really go wrong?
I generally try one of two different approaches, the first of which rules out any possible order.

My first (and favorite) approach is to taste them blind. This is great if you have significant other who has ballet tickets and cannot be at the tasting. Have them bag or decant the wines and for the latter, obviously leave a dummy proof list of what is what. It is a bit more tricky, but not impossible, to do this if “everybody” is involved in the tasting.

My second is similar to both those the above, but I revisit the bottles i.e. go through the bottles several times. Maybe this is assumed and everybody does this? Sorry, I have no advice on the order … but am looking forward to seeing what people suggest.

In fairness although blind is my favorite, it depends a bit on what your objective is. However, you can unblind yourself with some wine remaining to make more direct comparisons.

Enjoy,

Richard

(in reply to Paul S)

Post #: 6

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 7:40:55 AM

tomandlu

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I too generally prefer to go younger to older for a couple of reasons.

First, with wines like Ducru that develop magnificent secondary aromas with age, the fragrance of the older wines often overpowers that of the younger wines. Drinking the younger wines first prevents thair smelling dead or closed vis a vis their older siblings.

Second, while the younger wines are often more powerful and tannic they are also less complex. Drinking them first keeps them from being overshadowed by the older wines. Yes, the intensity of the older wines may deaden your palate, but I think that if you eat a little something - my preference is a baguette with mild cheese - between flights your palate will recover nicely.

If your wines were well stored then this should be a terrific tasting experience. Please be sure to post your tasting notes!

Cheers,
Tom

(in reply to rbazinet)

Post #: 7

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 8:11:48 AM

cgrimes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence

Don't you even save the best piece of meat as your last bite?
L.

Yes, I guess I do

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 8

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 9:09:32 AM

Paul S

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Thanks for the suggestions friends, do keep them coming. I'm looking forward to it already - and I will certainly be happily posting my notes!

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Post #: 9

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 1:23:32 PM

Colonel Lawrence

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As rbazinet says Blind is really the best.
But every other way will be great too!
Have a great event.
Collect a few more perhaps

L.

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Post #: 10

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 2:05:39 PM

cgrimes

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I agree, Paul, I'd come to your tasting with the wines in any order!

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Post #: 11

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 4:30:33 PM

Pavie Princess

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always drink best bottle to worse............

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Post #: 12

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 4:47:05 PM

Serge Birbrair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pavie Princess

always drink best bottle to worse............

I am terribly sorry to all involved but this is yet another crock of sh-t.

HOW IN THE GOD's NAME DO YOU KNOW WHICH IS THE BEST AND WHICH IS THE WORST!?

Just because your idol Robert Parker said so?

In which order one should drink:
Cazin, Francois 2007 Cheverny Le Petit Chambord
Louvetrie (Jo Landron) 2005 Muscadet de Sevre et Maine Le Fief du Breil
Do Ferreiro 2006 Rias Baixas Rebisaca
Ipsum 2007 Rueda
Bruna 2006 Riviera Ligure di Ponente Pigato le Russeghine

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Post #: 13

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 5:11:01 PM

tomandlu

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Um, Serge, I think PaviePrincess was joking.

We'd all LOVE to find a way to know ahead of time which bottles were going to be great (perfect storage, perfect cork, etc.) and which were going to be poor (maderized, bad cork, VA, etc.).

Tom

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 14

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 5:42:10 PM

Serge Birbrair

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Tom, she wasn't, the concept is foreign to her.

How far are you from Avalon wines?

My wife's son lives right above them,
small world, small world...

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RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 6:40:29 PM

deb293

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Best to worst or worst to best is so subjective, and involves a lot of second guessing on your part. One would think the point of a vertical is to be instructive and to show a wine's evolution. For what it's worth (and I admit, not much) I have been to four vertical tastings in my life (like I said, not much) and with one exception they were conducted youngest to old, and none were blind. With age worthy wines, this almost assumes that one is saving "the best for last" but more importantly you are getting an opportunity to show your guests how a wine evolves over time. This is kind of hard to do backwards.

And if there's a clunker vintage in the middle, oh well.

< Message edited by deb293 -- 6/18/2008 6:47:52 PM >

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Post #: 16

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/18/2008 8:09:02 PM

tomandlu

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Hi Serge,

Small world indeed, and an even smaller town. Avalon is about 2 miles from my house. I drop in regularly because they often have the odd bottle of Cayuse or Quilceda Creek or Leonetti on the shelf.

Tom

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Post #: 17

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/19/2008 12:04:13 AM

Serge Birbrair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: deb293

Best to worst or worst to best is so subjective, and involves a lot of second guessing on your part. One would think the point of a vertical is to be instructive and to show a wine's evolution. For what it's worth (and I admit, not much) I have been to four vertical tastings in my life (like I said, not much) and with one exception they were conducted youngest to old, and none were blind. With age worthy wines, this almost assumes that one is saving "the best for last" but more importantly you are getting an opportunity to show your guests how a wine evolves over time. This is kind of hard to do backwards.

And if there's a clunker vintage in the middle, oh well.

Deb,
all vertical public tasting I attened were from the oldest to the youngest, even though I often hear they do the opposite in Europe.

There is a practical reason for it too. When you enter the dining room, the wines are already poured and the youngest can withstand the air attack much better than the oldest ones. I see this not being a problem in the smaller private setting, and cumbersome in large public ones.

Tom, I love Avalon for their tremendous Oregon PN selection and go there every time I visit Oregon.

< Message edited by Serge Birbrair -- 6/19/2008 12:06:01 AM >

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Post #: 18

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/19/2008 1:18:34 AM

Paul S

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Wow, developing into quite an engaged discussion. I'm glad.

You know what - I will try to do it blind. Only problem is pairing with food. Four Bordeaux in a row is a bit difficult. I was just thinking of trying to get someone to do little lamb cutlets with the wine and forget about having dinner or anything else to distract us.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 19

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/19/2008 1:30:55 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Paul,
WHY do you want doing it blind? I thought the whole idea was to ENJOY them rather than evaluate them like critics do.

Here is the acount of another wine tasting dinner which might give you some ideas about the serving order and pairing dishes:
http://winereader.com/wines/audouze3.html

Please pardon my huge tongue in cheek

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Post #: 20

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/19/2008 1:45:55 AM

Paul S

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Well, the groups I drink with normally do double-blind, blind or half-blind for a couple of reasons:

1. We like playing guessing games! No prizes, but it is quite fun trying to pick out the varietal, region, producer, vintage etc. Of course with this tasting, it is only about picking out the vintage. Still, I find it a pretty interesting exercise and a good way to hone the palate and the memory.

2. I think tasting blind helps us to make a more objective assessment of the wine. I often get surprised in blind tastings when something I expect to be brilliant turns out not so good or when a "lesser" wine outshines the others. That is also part of the fun for me. I guess we all have a set idea of a certain vintage or producer. Blind tasting helps to circumvent any bias that naturally comes from that.

Thanks for the link though - that must have been an amazing tasting. 1929 Sauternes are legendary. Would love to try one sometime.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 21

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/19/2008 1:48:51 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Paul, no arguments from me regarding blind tasting, I go to "brown bag tastings" quite often myself.

Let's say I just differentiate "tastings" and dinner/food/wine events.

Have a great dinner any which way you decide to do it!

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Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

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Post #: 22

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/19/2008 10:32:06 AM

Paul S

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Thanks Serge. It seems we are doing a blind tasting cum pot luck lunch at the tasting facilities at one of the warehouses where some of my group store our wines now.

Final lineup - Ducru 1978, 1985, 1986, 1995, 1996, all for about $90 (Singapore dollars that is, or equivalant to US$65) per person which, in Singapore terms, is ridiculously good value. Very excited. Thanks for all your suggestions. Will post my TNs when we do this middle of next month.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 23

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/19/2008 12:42:05 PM

Pavie Princess

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the 95 Ducru is stellar in that group..............

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Post #: 24

RE: Advice on tasting order - 6/19/2008 12:47:05 PM

Serge Birbrair

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul S

Thanks Serge. It seems we are doing a blind tasting cum pot luck lunch at the tasting facilities at one of the warehouses where some of my group store our wines now.

what? No CUMplings???
:)