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Best New World Reds - 7/27/2007 7:53:36 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Disillusioned with price/quality of Bordeaux since 2005 (price rather than quality I should add).
So looking for the New Worlds best reds.
So far have collected just:
Kay Brothers
The Standish
Two Hands
& Vina Almaviva

A lot missing (note the total absence of US!).

Any suggestions warmly welcomed: as a quality/price benchmark I'd like to use Leoville Barton.

Best Regards,

L.


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Post #: 1
RE: Best New World Reds - 7/30/2007 7:44:06 PM   
seanr7

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/5/2005
From: Oklahoma City
Status: offline 		Great question, here is my picks for great new world non US reds.

Glaetzer - Australia
Kalleske - Australia
Barossa Valley Estate - South Australia
 
Celler Vall Llach - Spain, Priorat

Concha y Toro - Chile

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 2
RE: Best New World Reds - 7/31/2007 6:35:02 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Only know Concha reasonably well.  Haven't compared Carmin de Peumo and Don Melchor though?

Know anything else about the others?

L.

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Post #: 3
RE: Best New World Reds - 7/31/2007 8:56:48 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Colonel,

Had a lovely bottle of Glaetzer recently (WOTN against some good competition) and would recommend the Barossa Valley Estates E&E which I've been collecting since the 1996 vintage and scored a lot at 94/95.  Others worth looking at are:

AUSTRALIA
Diane Madeline from Cullen
Lakes Folly
Seppelts St Peter (good QPR)
Moss Wood Cab Sav
Petaluma (good QPR)
Clonakilla Shiraz Viognier

SOUTH AFRICA - more QPR here
Meerlust Rubicon
Kanonkop Paul Sauer
Rust en Verde
Hartenberg
And any wines from the Wine Makers Guild Auction

USA
Tried Insignia at the Decanter World Wine Tastings in May and it was good in a subtle way

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 4
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/1/2007 3:32:39 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Tx Wrighty, nice homework going through your list (of which I'm familiar with just four).
The Glaetzer seemed auspicious (Middle Eastern links - Amon Ra and Godolphin).
http://www.glaetzer.com/
Which one do I try first?
L.

(in reply to Wrighty)
Post #: 5
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/1/2007 7:52:14 AM   
seanr7

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/5/2005
From: Oklahoma City
Status: offline 		I would try the Godolphin first, the Amon Ra is a huge wine that, IMO, should be sat on for several years before drinking.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 6
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/3/2007 6:19:56 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Tx, I'm planning to buy and lay down (if I can resist the temptation), but thanks for the advice on aging potential:
sounds like I should get both.
Our Godolphin is somewhat different:
http://www.godolphin.com/
Sheik Mohammed and Frankie Dettori - a great team.
L.

(in reply to seanr7)
Post #: 7
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/4/2007 3:17:31 PM   
garden

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		If you can find them, you might also try the 2003 and 2005 vintages of Massena Shiraz Eleventh Hour (Australian).

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 8
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/5/2007 6:09:04 PM   
duckfaninmt

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seanr7

Great question, here is my picks for great new world non US reds.

Glaetzer - Australia
Kalleske - Australia
Barossa Valley Estate - South Australia



Colonel -

Excellent suggestions/choices from seanr7. IMO, the Glaetzer Bishop and Amon Ra are just outstanding-- would benefit from a couple years of cellaring, but just fabulous now. The Kalleske Greenock Shirazes (2003 especially) are among my very favorites; wines with a most aromatic nose and an equally superb palate. The E & E Black Peppers are simply outstanding; I just love the 2002 vintage.

Another Shiraz worth seeking out is the Tatiarra Caravan of Dreams... I've had the '03 - '05 vintages and they are just wonderful. Cellar worthy but easily accessible now.


(in reply to seanr7)
Post #: 9
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/9/2007 6:48:35 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Thanks all, now just got to track them down.
http://www.wine-searcher.com here I come.
L.

PS  Tried a 1996 Penfolds 'Old Vine' (Borossa Valley: Grenache-Mourvedre-Shiraz) last night.
Certainly different/old/powerful, fruit and medicine concoction - enormous sediment.  12 hours later I'm still working out how much I liked it (being a Bordeaux man I'm not as familiar with Rhone grapes as I'd like to be.)

(in reply to duckfaninmt)
Post #: 10
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/11/2007 9:39:22 AM   
garden

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		Since we are mostly pushing Australian shiraz, I have one more suggestion in that genre.  Take a look at Oliverhill "Jimmy Section" 2005.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 11
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/12/2007 7:18:38 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Colonel,

Have just tried the 2004 Lake's Folly which apparently is drinking well (didn't know that when it was bought) and it is.  As a Bordeaus man this is Bordeaux, just 10,000 miles way.  Reminded me of a Lynch Bages and comparable with quality IMO.

(in reply to garden)
Post #: 12
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/15/2007 9:16:22 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		I guess 'England' is New World???
So true to my new ambition I visited an English vineyard* - Denbies - which is less than an hour from where I live (when in UK) http://www.denbiesvineyard.co.uk/
First ever visit to a UK vineyard and, surprise, surprise the wine was quite drinkable!
Highlight was probably the Methode Champnoise Greenfield's Cuvee 2004 Premium Sparkling - (White).
The claim is that the terrior is almost identical to Champagne.
Sadly they can sell all they make (70% from the vineyard store) so the prices are too high (eg. more than I can buy a Premier Cru French Champagne).  Still it was fun - they have a great Disney style train ride and 360 degee film.
Overall the wines were dry, a touch acidic, and for drinking young.  Major grape infuelences are German, but the wines much drier.
L.



* only just found out that it existed - shame on me


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Post #: 13
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/16/2007 8:31:14 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Price does seem to be an issue when you try to buy British!  Have often looked at our sparklers and thought - English fizz or Champagne.  It's a shame they're so expensive but I guess if the demand is there at home and the supply is limited you can't blame the producers and it will only help them establish an English wine industry.

Wrighty

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 14
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/16/2007 4:21:42 PM   
duckfaninmt

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wrighty

Colonel,

Have just tried the 2004 Lake's Folly which apparently is drinking well (didn't know that when it was bought) and it is.  As a Bordeaus man this is Bordeaux, just 10,000 miles way.  Reminded me of a Lynch Bages and comparable with quality IMO.


Good call on that one, for sure. Other Aussie Shiraz that I have enjoyed immensely:

*** Penfold's RWT - The 1997, 2000, 2001, and 2003 vintages are superb
*** 2003 Rusden Black Guts - I'm think I'm addicted to this!
*** Elderton Command - 1996, 1998, and 2001 are especially memorable (particularly the '01)
*** d'Arenberg Dead Arm - The 1999 - 2001 vintages are terrific.
*** Greenock Creek - Both the Alice's and Apricot Block's are sublime... the 2000 - 2003 Apricot Shiraz's are phenomenal; the '01 is my all-time favorite. Just heavenly.

(in reply to Wrighty)
Post #: 15
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/16/2007 4:23:25 PM   
duckfaninmt

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		Oops. The post I had intended on quoting was from "garden"...

Since we are mostly pushing Australian shiraz, I have one more suggestion in that genre.  Take a look at Oliverhill "Jimmy Section" 2005.

(in reply to duckfaninmt)
Post #: 16
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/18/2007 7:43:47 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Retasted the Greenfield's Cuvee 2004 last night.
It was actually a mistake - I reached for the latest Sainsbury's discounted Champagne (Martell @ half price, less 25% discount if I remember rightly; anyway net 8.98 pounds sterling, which is rather cheap) and grabbed the wrong bottle.
Martell is OK, regular Champagne and maybe the Greenfields was brighter, sharper, more bubbly and clean - but at three times the price, won't be finding a regular place in the cellar.
Will be gradually checking out the rec's for Aussie Shiraz, could do with more from the America's (Nth & Sth).
And what about these offers? (anyone have a view as they are avaliable at these prices now):

SCHWARZ WINE CO.
Thiele Road Grenache 2005                     £160 per cs IB
Nitschke Road Shiraz 2005                       £195 per cs IB
SPINIFEX
Indigene 2004                                          £220 per cs IB
"The compelling 2004 Indigene (64% Mourvedre and 36% Shiraz) boasts an inky/purple hue in addition to a fruit cocktail-scented perfume of blue, red, and black fruits intermixed with spice and incense. A wine of great intensity, purity, richness, and full-bodied texture, it will last for 7-8 years". (93 POINTS) - Robert Parker

GREG HOBBS
Gregor Shiraz (Amarone) 2003               £450 per cs IB
"Made from yields of two tons of fruit per acre, and aged two years in both new and old French oak, the 2003 Shiraz Gregor (from 16-year-old vines) possesses a roasted/scorched earth character as some of the fruit is dried a la Amarone. Rich and full-bodied, with a broodingly dense, concentrated style, an inky/blue/purple color, fabulous length as well as intensity, and riveting fruit, it can be enjoyed over the next 12-15 years". (96 POINTS) - Robert Parker
KALLESKE
Greenock Shiraz 2005                           £195 per cs IB
"The impressive 2005 Shiraz Greenock exhibits an inky/purple color, greater intensity, and additional roasted meat and gamy characteristics interwoven with pepper, creme de cassis, and blackberry liqueur. The oak treatment is identical to the 2004, but that component seems more subdued in the 2005. The 2005 should evolve and drink well for 10-15 years." (94-96 PTS) - Robert Parker.


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Post #: 17
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/18/2007 7:47:00 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Did you know that "British" wine can be made from grapes from anywhere in the world, but "English" wine has to be from English grapes?
Suggest you avoid the 'British', except as replacement for Ribena.

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Post #: 18
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/18/2007 8:39:20 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Had heard about the difference between British and English - guess that makes us British as opposed to English Colonel?

Of those listed have only heard of the Greenock so would start there but being a Bordeaux man think you'll be better served looking beyond the obvious (and great) Aussie Shiraz and find those Cabs.

From my limited experience (which does include a Screaming Eagle!) of Cali Cabs here go some further Cabs.

Rdige Monte Bello
Stags Leap Vineyards
Joseph Phelps - both the Cab and Insignia
Rubicon
La Jota Cab franc
Cakebread


A limited list from limited experience but I'd drink all again given the chance.

Wrighty

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 19
RE: Best New World Reds - 8/22/2007 10:46:20 AM   
Schu

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Gaithersburg, MD
Status: offline 		Cali cabs that I have been digging recently are Turnbull & Shafer One Point Five.  I have heard great things about Chappellet, Neal, and Larkmead.  I plan to acquire some this weekend.

I also had a great Chilean cab this past week, Miguel Torres Manso de Velasco.  Pretty decent and at a great price.  Too bad I can't find any more locally.

(in reply to Wrighty)
Post #: 20
RE: Best New World Reds - 9/1/2007 6:57:48 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Might organise a poll on the favorites mentioned.
Trouble is there doesn't seem to be room for many choices.
I'll have to do some learning first.
In the mean time keep those rec's coming, I'm looking forward to each one.

Anyone got a view on Philip Togni C/S?
I have 1 bottle ;)

L.

_____________________________

First they came for ....................

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Post #: 21
RE: Best New World Reds - 9/2/2007 3:40:10 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		A bit of a challenge sorting this all out.  We have a mixture of  Producers on the one hand and individual bottles, by year and vineyard on the other (my fault for not being more specific).
If anyone wishes to add additional input for their choices please do so.  Also please point out any mistakes I've made.
Finally if you newly try one on the list and have a comment that would be great.
With Australia in the lead and the USA a way behind this is what we have so far:

Massena Shiraz Eleventh Hour (2003,2005) - Australia
Glaetzer (Bishop, Amon Ra, Godolphin) - Australia
Kalleske (Greenock Shirazes, esp. 2003) - Australia
Barossa Valley Estate - South Australia
Diane Madeline from Cullen - Australia
Lakes Folly - Australia
Seppelts St Peter (good QPR) - Australia
Moss Wood Cab Sav - Australia
Petaluma (good QPR) - Australia
Clonakilla Shiraz Viognier - Australia
Tatiarra Caravan of Dreams (2003-5) - Australia
E & E Black Peppers (esp. 2002) - South Australia
Oliverhill "Jimmy Section" (esp. 2005) - South Australia
Lake's Folly - NSW Australia
Penfold's RWT - The 1997, 2000, 2001, and 2003 vintages are superb - Australia
2003 Rusden Black Guts - I'm think I'm addicted to this! - Australia
Elderton Command (1996, 1998, and particularly 2001) - Australia
d'Arenberg Dead Arm (1999 - 2001 vintages are terrific) - Australia
Greenock Creek Alice's and Apricot Block (2000-2003,esp. Apricot Shiraz 2001) - Australia

Celler Vall Llach - Spain, Priorat

Concha y Toro (Carmin de Peumo, Don Melchor) – Chile
Miguel Torres Manso de Velasco – Chile

Meerlust Rubicon – South Africa
Kanonkop Paul Sauer – South Africa
Rust en Verde – South Africa
Hartenberg – South Africa

Joseph Phelps Insignia – USA
Ridge Monte Bello – USA
Stags Leap Vineyards – USA
Rubicon – USA
La Jota Cab Franc – USA
Cakebread – USA
Chappellet – USA
Neal – USA
Larkmead – USA
Plus (also USA)
Turnbull & Shafer One Point Five  Can’t understand this one as ther seems to be a Turbull and a Shafer, but none with One Point Five.  Clarification please.
(beginning to understand Eric’s challenges)


Suspect we are short on Chile and others.

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Post #: 22
RE: Best New World Reds - 9/3/2007 6:27:55 PM   
duckfaninmt

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence

Finally if you newly try one on the list and have a comment that would be great.
With Australia in the lead and the USA a way behind this is what we have so far:

Glaetzer (Bishop, Amon Ra, Godolphin) - Australia
Kalleske (Greenock Shirazes, esp. 2003) - Australia
Barossa Valley Estate - South Australia
Diane Madeline from Cullen - Australia
Lakes Folly - Australia
Seppelts St Peter (good QPR) - Australia
Moss Wood Cab Sav - Australia
Petaluma (good QPR) - Australia
Clonakilla Shiraz Viognier - Australia
Tatiarra Caravan of Dreams (2003-5) - Australia
E & E Black Peppers (esp. 2002) - South Australia
Oliverhill "Jimmy Section" (esp. 2005) - South Australia
Lake's Folly - NSW Australia
Penfold's RWT - The 1997, 2000, 2001, and 2003 vintages are superb - Australia
2003 Rusden Black Guts - I'm think I'm addicted to this! - Australia
Elderton Command (1996, 1998, and particularly 2001) - Australia
d'Arenberg Dead Arm (1999 - 2001 vintages are terrific) - Australia
Greenock Creek Alice's and Apricot Block (2000-2003,esp. Apricot Shiraz 2001) - Australia



Colonel -

Unless I'm mistaken, the Barossa Valley Estate is the makers of the E & E Black Pepper wine... and yes, the 2002 vintage is superb.

I still stand by all my previous recommendations... no doubt about it. Additionally, I just recently had the opportunity to try the 2005 Greenock Creek Shiraz and it's absolutely outstanding... I highly doubt you'd be disappointed!

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 23
RE: Best New World Reds - 9/4/2007 4:15:54 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Updated list (still some brushing up needed):
Massena Shiraz Eleventh Hour (2003,2005) - Australia
Glaetzer (Bishop, Amon Ra, Godolphin) - Australia
Kalleske (Greenock Shirazes, esp. 2003) - Australia
Barossa Valley Estate - South Australia
Diane Madeline from Cullen - Australia
Lakes Folly - Australia
Seppelts St Peter (good QPR) - Australia
Moss Wood Cab Sav - Australia
Petaluma (good QPR) - Australia
Clonakilla Shiraz Viognier - Australia
Tatiarra Caravan of Dreams (2003-5) - Australia
Barossa Valley Estate E & E Black Peppers (esp. 2002) - South Australia
Oliverhill "Jimmy Section" (esp. 2005) - South Australia
Lake's Folly - NSW Australia
Penfold's RWT - The 1997, 2000, 2001, and 2003 vintages are superb - Australia
2003 Rusden Black Guts - I'm think I'm addicted to this! - Australia
Elderton Command (1996, 1998, and particularly 2001) - Australia
d'Arenberg Dead Arm (1999 - 2001 vintages are terrific) - Australia
Greenock Creek Alice's and Apricot Block (2000-2003,esp.) – Australia                                                                                                    Greenock Creek Shiraz (2001,2005) – Australia

Celler Vall Llach - Spain, Priorat

Concha y Toro (Carmin de Peumo, Don Melchor) – Chile
Miguel Torres Manso de Velasco – Chile

Meerlust Rubicon – South Africa
Kanonkop Paul Sauer – South Africa
Rust en Verde – South Africa
Hartenberg – South Africa

Joseph Phelps Insignia – USA
Ridge Monte Bello – USA
Stags Leap Vineyards – USA
Rubicon – USA
La Jota Cab Franc – USA
Cakebread – USA
Chappellet – USA
Neal – USA
Larkmead – USA
Plus (also USA)
Turnbull & Shafer One Point Five  Can’t understand this one as ther seems to be a Turbull and a Shafer, but none with One Point Five. 

_____________________________

First they came for ....................

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Post #: 24
RE: Best New World Reds - 9/8/2007 8:47:27 PM   
Stealthwine

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline 		I have to throw in a few of the Pacific Northwests best. (We make decent wine up here you know) I also like a lot of OZ stuff but finesse is usually not down unders things so, if you can find these, I'm sorry but try the following.

Quilceda Creek Cabernet Sav. (Uber Cult Wine and damn good juice)
Bergstrom Pinot Noir (Most any of the vineyard specific brands) This small Oregon Pinot winery is so hot you have to book tastings a month in advance. I have tried 4 of their wines and loved them all. I am not a big Pinot guy and this producer makes some great wine.
Northstar Walla Walla Merlot (don't pick on Merlot, this is nice stuff). Go for the Walla Walla over the Columbia in most years.
Dr. Loosen and Chat Ste Michelle Eroica resisling. If you can find a late harvest desert bottle - try that as well. Not cellerable but awfully nice on a summer night.
Ste Michelle Artist Series  Meritage.
Walla Walla Vintners Reds (Any of them as long as you like a very toasted barrel).

I am not married to Washington but this thread has gone deep in to Aussie wines and kind of missed all the other great areas. Just my two cents.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 25
RE: Best New World Reds - 9/8/2007 10:52:48 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Thanks for the Pacific Northwest contribution.  When we have a few more suggestions I'll update the list.
Was rather surprised myself at the weight of the spontaneous Aussie suggestions, US only catching up belatedly.
And very few South Americans?
There are great wines out there that are still to be discovered!


_____________________________

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Post #: 26
RE: Best New World Reds - 9/9/2007 7:48:33 AM   
deb293

 

Posts: 287
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		Don't know if this link will work,

http://www.winespectator.com/Wine/Images/Graphics/Feature/111506Retail.pdf

but Wine Spectator did an interesting price/quality analysis in 2006 of what they thought were California's best (and most consistent) Cabernet producers over a 10 year period.  Might be a good place to start for investigating U.S. New World reds.

< Message edited by deb293 -- 9/9/2007 7:53:22 AM >

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 27
RE: Best New World Reds - 9/9/2007 11:22:48 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Brilliant stuff Deb!
Scored blind as well.
Tx, now have to find some incredible logic/patterns from the charts.
L.

(in reply to deb293)
Post #: 28
RE: Best New World Reds - 9/9/2007 11:38:17 AM   
deb293

 

Posts: 287
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		Good luck in your hunting!  Being on the Pride mailing list, I took comfort in finding that their "regular" bottling sometimes outscored their "reserve" Cab, which is way more expensive.  Pride is a great producer, and often under the radar as they (thankfully) do not have cult status.

< Message edited by deb293 -- 9/11/2007 9:42:03 PM >

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 29
RE: Best New World Reds - 9/13/2007 7:55:15 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Had the Meerlust Rubicon 2001 again recently - at a winemakers dinner in HK and it certainly packs a punch and at HK$300 is relatively good value in HK.  I scored it 92 points again - so was pleased with my consistency.  Have just picked up a selection of the Glaetzer's so am hoping to at least try a Bishop this weekend.  Before I bought I looked at the averages scores for the Goldolphin and Amon Ra and both 92+ (92.8 and 94.5 respectively) so high quality and again decent prices, the Amon Ra is cheaper in HK than Australia!

A bit leftfield but had a Pratts and Symington Chrysia sometime ago which stuck in my mind although I think prices have gone up since then.

Wrighty

(in reply to deb293)
Post #: 30
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