Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004

CellarTracker Main Site

Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Cellar Talk] >> General Discussion >> Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/5/2008 3:40:45 PM

Maestro

Posts: 521
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline

The prices are very attractive for Bordeaux for the vintages 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004.

I have had quite a few 2001 and the wines from good producers were very seductive, approachable and early maturing.

I had a few 2002 and they were no good. No good at all. Not sure if they are shutdown, but I just think they were tannic, green, and diluted.

I don't have much experience with the 2003 and 2004 yet... Should give it a try.

Anyone care to comment?

Post #: 1

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/5/2008 3:51:54 PM

jhannah27

Posts: 408
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Anaheim, CA
Status: offline

Don't know much about some of those other vintages, but I highly recommend getting some of the 2004's. All of the ones that I have had have been excellent, much more approachable now or in the near future, and very well priced.

_____________________________

"Quickly! Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever."
Aristophanes 450 - 385 b.c.

(in reply to Maestro)

Post #: 2

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/5/2008 4:01:19 PM

RoundersRob

Posts: 633
Joined: 7/1/2006
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Status: offline

I think 04s are great as well.

I had an 02 Montrose that was really nice a few days ago. 03s are supposed to be really good but I think that's the most expensive of those 4 vintages.

(in reply to jhannah27)

Post #: 3

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/5/2008 4:03:33 PM

GalvezGuy

Posts: 298
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline

I tend to agree. 2001 was a very underrated vintage IMHO. There are a lot of rock solid wines out there that can still be had for reasonable prices. I have a few 2002's most of them are very angular but should come around. There were a lot of green wines in 2002. 2003, I have tried a few and think that they need quite a while. They seem approachable because of the ripe fruit, but I think they need time to integrate. The 2004s are very approachable and a great value. I highly recommend the 2004 Smith Haut Lafitte, probably one of the most underrated wines of the vintage.

_____________________________

If you're gonna be dumb you better be tough

(in reply to jhannah27)

Post #: 4

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/5/2008 5:03:36 PM

JohnNezlek

Posts: 208
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: Gloucester, Virginia
Status: offline

I have just started drinking some of my '01, with good sucess, for the most part. Most of these have been "smaller wines" that have been meant to be consuned earlier. I particualrly liked the Cambon La Pelouse
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=37142

and the Chantegrive blanc
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=71854

I have sampled only a few '02 Bordeaux, with a bunch more waiting in the wings. For what is meant to be a "bad" or certainly weak vintage, I have, so far, not been disappointed.
2002 Clos de l'Oratoire was fine for me
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=75635

Whereas the '02 Valrose seemed a bit youg,
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=102427

and the '02 Clus du Bourg was a totally unexpected pleasure (not dramatic, but I had very low expectations)
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=327228

The Gigault was just fine for what it is/was
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=447171

and even a second wine was dcent
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=377786

For '03, my tasting has been similar to '01 -- mostly smaller wines, but so far no losers.

I have not had an '04 that I thought was really ready, even the smaller ones. I will add that I have not had that many, because I think it is simply too soon to drink them.

Curiously, in terms of this thread, just this week, I went through my cellar and selected a few '01, '00, '99, and '98 Bordeaux to drink in the near future. I have mulitple bottles of almost all of these wines, and I am curious to see how they evolve over time. For those readers who are curious about why someone might collect and store wine, one reason is that it provides the opportunity to examine (more easily) how a particular evolves. Adds a little something to the experience, at least for me.

Cheers,

John

(in reply to GalvezGuy)

Post #: 5

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/5/2008 7:35:20 PM

khmark7

Posts: 37
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Illinois
Status: offline

2002 was a much cooler year and different profile. I'm finding many of those wines drinking very well right now, less herbal than 1996. As for 2003 I'm finding that the Cab dominant blends need more time, but the Merlot blends are approachable now.

(in reply to Maestro)

Post #: 6

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/5/2008 8:34:18 PM

Paul S

Posts: 494
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: Singapore
Status: offline

2001 and 2004 are very similar to my mind - both very clean, good acdity, classic, with pure fruit character. There may be a hint of green in some cases, but my experience has generally been good. I think 2001 is probably the more forward of the two. Of course, it has more bottle-age. 2004 needs more time to come around. Both a re great value, especially the 2004 since everyone now lauds the 2001.

2002 is quite a sleeper vintage actually - I think some of the wines are coming around really nicely. Very friendly, approachable and probably good value if you can find them.

2003 is a love it or hate it vintage. Absolutely un-classic, heat-wave year. Good on the left-bank, where the Cab Sauv could take the heat, not on the right-bank generally, where the Merlot could not. Rather denser than normal, low acid in some cases, very fruit forward wines. Some are charming, like the Pontet-Canet and the stupendous Poyferre and a few of the Margaux wines, but overall, I would drink this, but it's not my favourite for Bordeaux.

(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 7

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/6/2008 12:16:17 AM

pjaines

Posts: 699
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: offline

The 04's need a more time to let the tannins blend a bit. I've tried a couple of my 04's (and Alter Ego and Lynch Bages) just to see how they were coming on and they definately need another 2 years or so before trying again, and probably 5 years before they are drinking really well.

Of my experience of the 03's I have found them a bit flabby and lacking real depth. I'm not convinced for their aging potential (I usually buy 3rd to 5th growth bordeaux).

I've been very impressed with the 2001 vintage - I think really hitting its stride now. Definately a good year for even lesser Bordeaux.

_____________________________

-- Paul

(in reply to Paul S)

Post #: 8

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/6/2008 5:35:21 AM

J2K

Posts: 360
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: offline

This is good information especially considering the rising costs of the 05 vintage.
04 Pontet-canet @ $55 vs 05 Pontet Canet @ $ 100

There are still some 01--04 bottles available at my wine store and considering some can be drank earlier, are drinking well, and cost less.......

(in reply to pjaines)

Post #: 9

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/6/2008 6:18:22 AM

Paul S

Posts: 494
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: Singapore
Status: offline

2005 PC is brilliant, absolutely. http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=217144

But saying that, the 2004 is good buy, although you will probably get more joy from the 2003 PC for early drinking. It really is quite lovely in a rather modern way. TN here: http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=18549

(in reply to J2K)

Post #: 10

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/6/2008 9:12:34 AM

jhannah27

Posts: 408
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Anaheim, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: J2K

This is good information especially considering the rising costs of the 05 vintage.
04 Pontet-canet @ $55 vs 05 Pontet Canet @ $ 100

There are still some 01--04 bottles available at my wine store and considering some can be drank earlier, are drinking well, and cost less.......

It's funny that the 04 PC has been brought up. I actually had it in mind when I wrote my earlier post. Just bought another bottle of it last week (along with a 2000), and for $57 it's really great stuff.

Although the 05 has jumped in price, I still think PC is one of the best values in Bordeaux.

_____________________________

"Quickly! Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever."
Aristophanes 450 - 385 b.c.

(in reply to J2K)

Post #: 11

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/6/2008 9:29:51 AM

J2K

Posts: 360
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: offline

The questions is........is the 2005 vintage worth the jump in price or do you keep buying 2000-2004 where you can buy almost twice as many bottles of an 05?
Probably mix it up.

I have have enjoyed the 2003's myself. Haven't tried any 04 or 05's yet.

< Message edited by J2K -- 8/6/2008 9:33:50 AM >

(in reply to jhannah27)

Post #: 12

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/6/2008 11:19:50 AM

grafstrb

Posts: 408
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: Los Angeles, via Minnesota
Status: offline

Except for some low-level estates, I've been avoiding '05 ... I feel like I'm paying for the "2005" on the label, rather than just what's inside the bottle. Instead, I'm looking to 2004 and 2003 for my (admittedly occasional) Bdx buys.

I've found the 2003 Cambon la Pelouse to be nice.
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=87560

A few weeks ago I really enjoyed the 2003 Ch. Caronne ste. Gemme.
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=87604

Both of these above-listed wines are <$20.

(in reply to Maestro)

Post #: 13

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/6/2008 11:26:43 AM

cgrimes

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline

I am intrigued by this thread as I have opened 1 bottle of 2000 St. Emilion (Chauvin) and while had good potential, was tight as a drum. I have tried none of my 21st Century Classified Bordeaux with the assumption that they are all too young--esp. the '02s. Even the '01 Reserve de Comtesse needed more time when I tried it 2 yrs ago. Would love to taste them but cannot afford to commit infanticide.

(in reply to grafstrb)

Post #: 14

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/6/2008 11:30:11 AM

grafstrb

Posts: 408
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: Los Angeles, via Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

I am intrigued by this thread as I have opened 1 bottle of 2000 St. Emilion (Chauvin) and while had good potential, was tight as a drum. I have tried none of my 21st Century Classified Bordeaux with the assumption that they are all too young--esp. the '02s. Even the '01 Reserve de Comtesse needed more time when I tried it 2 yrs ago. Would love to taste them but cannot afford to commit infanticide.

Craig,
Interesting that you mention this particular wine ... I (very much) enjoyed a bottle a few months ago ... here's what I had to say:

NOSE: nice ripe red fruits; roasted; some nice typical Bordeaux stink; hint of dill and slight flecks of oak in the background.

BODY: very dark; opaque purple-ruby colored.

TASTE: earthy (forest floor) and leather; secondary notes of minerals and bitter black tea highlight the persistent finish (1+ min.); a well balanced wine, I'd describe it as round right now; it is slightly hollow on the mid-palate, and it does finish a bit hot; this is drinking well now (I'd recommend decanting for at least a couple of hours) but I get the impression this could easily improve over the next 5-10 years. A very nice wine...this is my kind of Bordeaux.

B: 50, 4, 13, 17, 8 = 92 points

(in reply to cgrimes)

Post #: 15

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/6/2008 12:02:10 PM

cgrimes

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline

grafstrb,
I think we are in agreement about it being a good wine (RoundersRob also liked it). I just would have ENJOYED it more with more decanting or time, and since I only had one, feel as if I should have waited. That is the problem (also mentioned in another thread recently) about not getting multiple bottles given recent prices.
Craig

(in reply to grafstrb)

Post #: 16

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/7/2008 7:08:06 PM

Pavie Princess

Posts: 175
Joined: 5/19/2008
Status: offline

2004 Château Smith Haut Lafitte (France, Bordeaux, Graves, Pessac-Léognan)

6/11/2008
Pavie Princess
94

This wine was drank in serious company. It was blind with 5 firsts and other very pricy Bdx neigbors and it won WOTN. This wine was seriously shockingly good. After drinking it I went out and bought several and am now looking to add case numbers. This is a wine I want to drink alot. It was awesome from the outset. It was decanted over 8 hrs and its nose was awesome chocolately with mocha infusion wrapped in black fruit confit. It was pure and the sip was even better. I know this estate has a recent history of revival because of reinvestment but if I found the 04 this good I can only imagine how good the 05 will be. The wine mid palate has wet clay minerals cherry berry and toffee with cigar box and licorice. The finish is muted and why the wine got a sub 95 score but there is no question in my mind that this wine will get better with time. It was mind blowing good because it exceeded my expectation when it was unblinded to us. Every person had the wine rated above every first we had. This wine is must buy for the quality to value proposition but I recommend sitting on it for ten yrs. Cetainly now want to buy other vintages and can only imagine how good the 05 must be. 94 and heading higher in my view. Loved this bottle. (1205 views)

2004 Château Pontet-Canet (France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac)

6/11/2008
Pavie Princess
93

After sampling the 05 three times I decided to go out and buy some of the 04 BDX to match against the 05 Vintage. Guess what I am finding. 2004 was not a bad vintage. Infact on a value basis it is a drinkers vintage and there are some value pockets. This 5th growth is a perfect example. PC 2004 is a seriously good wine. The nose was solid and loaded with cherry berry fruits and chocolate. The first sip showed complete balance and a very smooth early Bdx. I am in utter shock of how approachable soem of the 2004 Bdx is this early. This wine is clearly closed down a bit but man is it smooth and pleasant to drink even this early. The mid palate had herb vanilla crushed stone wet clay and coffee. the finish showed well and had nuances of licorice cigar box and floral bouquet with creme de cassis. The wood is there too but hidden a bit. This one need decanting and aeration if you kill it early. I really like this wine and much like the 05 I bet it get 3-4 points in ten yrs. Serious value for the quality. 93+

This Chateau is Moutons neighbor and its wine has been killing Mouton now for a long time. This wine is superior to the 04 Mouton which got an 89 from me. PC is a keeper QPR. (2660 views)

2005 Château Pontet-Canet (France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac)

4/17/2008
Pavie Princess
95

I recieved several cases of the wine this week so I decided to try a few to assess quality myself. Opened the wine and let it sit for 4.5 hours. The bouquet was somewhat muted but I then aerated the glass I poured. That helped the bouquet come out behind the facade. It had lead pencil wet clay and mineral smell. The first sip was cherry and cassis and currant with hints of spice. The tannins in this bottle were strong but in another I opened up and let sit they were more reasonable. The mid palate revealed more spice vanilla and some licorice. The finish was long and i got more wet clay and minerality with cherry and berry accents. The aroma of the wine is pretty intense and the backbone of this wine is of great ilk. Perfect balance between the fruit and acidity. I think this one is going to get 3 - 4 extra points over its next decade. I would definitely recommend adding this wine to your portfolio. 95+ Points (2841 views)

(in reply to cgrimes)

Post #: 17

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/8/2008 7:33:27 PM

Uncle Noon

Posts: 36
Joined: 5/30/2008
Status: offline

Since the 2005 prices, I have purchased a lot of 2001 to 2004 Bordeaux. The ratings are good and the price too.

_____________________________

"No thing more excellent nor more valuable than wine was ever granted mankind by God."-Plato

(in reply to Maestro)

Post #: 18

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/8/2008 8:27:22 PM

Serge Birbrair

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline

Dear Uncle,
what exactly taste better, ratings or the prices?

_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to Uncle Noon)

Post #: 19

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/12/2008 9:21:17 AM

Uncle Noon

Posts: 36
Joined: 5/30/2008
Status: offline

The wine, Serge, the wine.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 20

RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 - 8/15/2008 5:28:34 AM

khmark7

Posts: 37
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Illinois
Status: offline

Was thinking that the last few 2002 Bordeaux that I had were rather nice, Chateau Camensac, Malartic Lagraviere and Grand Pontet. I would give some of the left bank wines a little more time.

(in reply to Maestro)

Post #: 21