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Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 5:54:11 AM   
pbm

 

Posts: 348
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: New Hope, Pennsylvania
Status: online 		Most of us are familiar with the "Colonel Doctrine" (buy twice as much as one will drink, hold, sell half, drink for free.) I'm interested in what other strategies folks are using to build their cellars. That is, what's driving the buying and holding that you're doing...and has that changed over the years?

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PBM
"Never Sell Principle Short"
Dave O'Neal
Post #: 1
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 6:06:41 AM   
gbm

 

Posts: 225
Joined: 3/12/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: online 		Great question.  Although I aspire to the Colonel's strategy, I have neither the space nor the cash to implement it.  I only began to seriously buy and drink wine over the past two years.  Before that it was a bottle here and a bottle there and I knew nothing about what I was drinking.  As I began to get more involved, I would buy a single bottle of several different wines (usually from the same region) to educate myself. 

Lately I have splurged and bought a few cases of wines that I know I like or wines that have been heavily discounted and well reviewed, but I think I am settling on a new plan.

I will continue to buy two or three cases of "house wine" every year, and for other purchases I am going to start buying three bottles.  I have about 10 bottles in the cellar that are drinkable, but young, and I can't bring myself to drink most of them so early. So, I arrived at my "three-prong plan".  The first bottle is to drink soon (probably within the year), the second is destined to lay down until it has properly matured, and the third is a gamble.  If it is a fantastic wine, I will have an extra bottle to mature.  Or I can use it in a few years to see how the wine is maturing.  Or I can gift it to someone who will check the price of the gift online and have no idea whether the wine is any good...

(in reply to pbm)
Post #: 2
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 6:09:53 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 760
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		PBM - Don't really have a strategy.

I buy Bordeaux - when I can afford it
I buy Sauternes - I think it's better value for great wine
I buy other Cabs from Australia (Margaret River mostly) and a little from SA and USA
I still buy some blockbusters from Australia, currently Glaetzer and Leeuwin but a lot less as a percentage than when I started.
I try to buy Riesling, both German and Australian
I try to buy some Italians and Ports to fill it out.
Then I dabble.

I buy the Bordeaux in cases but the rest by the bottle.  I'm similar to GBM although I try to buy 4 bottles of a good wine I've tried.  This way I get (I believe) enough to see me into the heart of its drinking window while not too much I can't buy a broad selection.

Does this constitute a strategy or a haphazard journey?

Wrighty


< Message edited by Wrighty -- 12/1/2008 6:15:01 AM >

(in reply to pbm)
Post #: 3
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 6:19:22 AM   
pbm

 

Posts: 348
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: New Hope, Pennsylvania
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wrighty

PBM - Don't really have a strategy.

I buy Bordeaux - when I can afford it
I buy Sauternes - I think it's better value for great wine
I buy other Cabs from Australia (Margaret River mostly) and a little from SA and USA
I still buy some blockbusters from Australia, currently Glaetzer and Leeuwin but a lot less as a percentage than when I started.
I try to buy Riesling, both German and Australian
I try to buy some Italians and Ports to fill it out.
Then I dabble.

I buy the Bordeaux in cases but the rest by the bottle.  I'm similar to GBM although I try to buy 4 bottles of a good wine I've tried.  This way I get (I believe) enough to see me into the heart of its drinking window while not too much I can't buy a broad selection.

Does this constitute a strategy or a haphazard journey?

Wrighty



That would seem to qualify as a strategy to me. Objectives, rationale, etc. Of course, I always tell my colleagues and clients that the reason for having a plan is to know when you are deviating from it.

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PBM
"Never Sell Principle Short"
Dave O'Neal

(in reply to Wrighty)
Post #: 4
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 6:40:16 AM   
annerk

 

Posts: 247
Joined: 10/16/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		I have recently begun to look at the Colonel's strategy, and in one instance have even applied it.  For right now I'm doing mostly the same as gbm though, but trying for four bottles so that the last will become part of a vertical tasting.

< Message edited by annerk -- 12/1/2008 6:41:06 AM >

(in reply to pbm)
Post #: 5
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 7:39:24 AM   
superbarre

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 8/1/2008
From: Leuven, Belgium
Status: offline 		since I'm somewhat new to building a cellar (almost a year into it, stocking about 650 bottles now), my 'strategy' will change during following years I guess.
I am trying to buy holding and drinking wine at this time, which should later be replaced by buying holding wine and drinking the previously bought holding wine (does that make sense).

Off course, that is the theory... I suppose I will often come across things I want to try, and 'new' wine (see the other topic) will not fit into this strategy

(in reply to annerk)
Post #: 6
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 7:43:54 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 760
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Oh, and I try not to drink too much of the good stuff too quickly.  Easy when most of it was in the UK, harder now it's in HK, although still under lock and key of a 3rd party.

Wrighty

(in reply to superbarre)
Post #: 7
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 9:07:08 AM   
J2K

 

Posts: 418
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I just buy whatever interests me and there are so many wines out there, they just keep coming, every year!!!! Ultimatley I'm always looking for value. I do try to keep a wide range of regions and varietals, new and old. Whenever I look at "My cellar" on CT think, oh i need some more of _____.
The few wines I have bought vertically are Don Melchor, Quinta do Crasto, Pio Cesare Barolo and Barbaresco

(in reply to Wrighty)
Post #: 8
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 10:08:37 AM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 905
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: offline 		Good question, PBM.

I tend to buy little and often and widely spread.   

The objective is to have a cellar with:
-  "long-termers" that will age 10+ years
- medium-termers - 3-5 years aging
- here and now wines - stuff that I can buy, keep at home in London and not feel too guilty about drinking in the next year

I guess I am still in the stage of building up my cellar for longer drinking (Bordeaux, Ribera del Duero, Burgundy mainly).  The cumulative effect is starting to pay off with my cellar starting to give me some good drinking starting from 2010.  I'm adding to Aussie wines to that (thanks to Wrighty's advice) and Italian wines to that (mainly Barberesco and some good recommendations from Maestro).

The rest is just a hit-and-miss exploration of the world's wine. 

The net effect is that I am not expecting to get into 32 inch waist trousers ever again in my life.

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-- Paul

(in reply to J2K)
Post #: 9
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 10:48:46 AM   
GalvezGuy

 

Posts: 319
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline 		I don't really have a strategy.  A lot of what I had previously collected is entering the start of its drinking window.  I try to balance my purchases in 3 basic categories. 

Daily Drinkers - Wines less than $25, the bulk of my collection.  Does not mean that I am not aging them and using drinking windows.  It just means that I don't think twice about opening one when it is ready.
Value Agers - Mostly Bordeaux but with some cabs and pinots from Cali, Don Melchor, some CdP, and a few Italian agers thrown in.  Wines costing $25-$75 that require aging and generally aren't opened without someone lese around to share
The Colonels - With a nod to the strategy used by the Colonel.  These are mailing list wines or wines that are affordable on futures.  They are held and then sold or traded.  Sea Smoke, Kosta Browne,  Leoville Barton, Cos, etc.
Special occasion wines - all Bordeaux, most of them auction finds, waiting for the right occasion.  e.g.  the 59 Bordeaux being held for my 50th, a few first growths, etc.

I will probably try to acquire some older vintages of Bordeaux and Vintage Port during the next year as prices are starting to fall.

Noting that my math is off.  Maybe that is why I purchase more than I can store.   

< Message edited by GalvezGuy -- 12/1/2008 1:34:33 PM >

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If you're gonna be dumb you better be tough

(in reply to pjaines)
Post #: 10
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 10:59:21 AM   
pbm

 

Posts: 348
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: New Hope, Pennsylvania
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: GalvezGuy
The Colonels


Perfect. Henceforth my wine purchases intended as an investment shall be dubbed "The Colonels."

_____________________________

PBM
"Never Sell Principle Short"
Dave O'Neal

(in reply to GalvezGuy)
Post #: 11
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 1:00:51 PM   
duck833

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 5/13/2008
From: Eugene, Oregon
Status: offline 		My original plan was to acquire and age Oregon Pinot Noir's.  I figured I wanted to lay them down for approximately five years on the average.  So I acquired a cellar that would hold 400 bottles at proper temperature.  The plan was to buy 6-7 cases per year for aging plus any current consumption. 

So I acquired my six cases of 2005 PN that was indeed rather tight and will greatly benefit from years of aging.  Then the 2006 vintage got released early this year and it was drinkable right now!  Plus many folks think the vintage will not make it out to 8-10 years.  So I backed up the truck and probably have now close to 20 cases of 2006 to drink now and for the next few years.

Now the 2007 vintage appears to be another one to put away for a few years.

What has me worried though is the current 2008 vintage, weather here in Oregon was perfect for PN, great Indian summer.  The 2008 vintage may well be the best in a decade.  I either have to increase consumption or create more space now or invest in another 400 bottle cellar.  (maybe a christmas present)

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Go Ducks!!!

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Post #: 12
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 1:15:45 PM   
gbm

 

Posts: 225
Joined: 3/12/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: duck833

I either have to increase consumption or create more space now or invest in another 400 bottle cellar.  (maybe a christmas present)


Or do both - and buy more wine 

(in reply to duck833)
Post #: 13
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 1:34:53 PM   
NiklasW

 

Posts: 507
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Seems my strategy is quite like that of J2K, superbarre, pjaines and gbm. I am concentrating mainly on France and Italy, trying to find which regions in those countries tickle my fancy the most. Problem is that most of the areas I have tried tickle my fancy, so I feel like I need to sample them more broadly, check out what other producers are like in the same area. I despair of the day that I discover some Spanish wine that forces me to start looking in to that region in more detail, or Portuguese, or Californian, or Australian... 

(in reply to gbm)
Post #: 14
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 2:03:22 PM   
gbm

 

Posts: 225
Joined: 3/12/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: online 		Niklas-

Watch out for the Argentine Malbecs.  I have managed to keep myself to one bottle here and there, but I can see how it might become all consuming in the near future.

(in reply to NiklasW)
Post #: 15
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 2:37:47 PM   
pbm

 

Posts: 348
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: New Hope, Pennsylvania
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: gbm

Niklas-

Watch out for the Argentine Malbecs.  I have managed to keep myself to one bottle here and there, but I can see how it might become all consuming in the near future.


One of the guys joining me and Scott in NJ Thursday night is bringing two bottles from Pulenta (sp?) -- 2000 Cab and 2005 Malbec...looking forward to these.

_____________________________

PBM
"Never Sell Principle Short"
Dave O'Neal

(in reply to gbm)
Post #: 16
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 7:31:40 PM   
tomandlu

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline 		Strategy?  Well, I like Bordeaux, Burgundy, Oregon pinot, Washington cab and syrah, Port, and German riesling, so I buy from producers I know and read reviews I trust to spread my wings a bit.  I don't - never, ever, for any reason what so ever - buy wine to sell at a later date.  I buy what I want to drink and store it.  I learned from an old prof in grad school to 'buy wine young and hang on to it because you can't afford it when it's ready to drink'.  I guess that sums up my strategy pretty well.

Cheers,
Tom

(in reply to pbm)
Post #: 17
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/1/2008 8:49:29 PM   
deb293

 

Posts: 294
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		Do you plan to sell or do you plan to drink?  If you plan to drink, buy what you like.  If you plan to sell, follow the Colonel.  But you better have a keen understanding of market fluctuations, wine values and trends, etc.  And do you want to make wine selling/trading a part time job?

Guess you can tell I'm in the first camp.


< Message edited by deb293 -- 12/1/2008 8:54:03 PM >

(in reply to pbm)
Post #: 18
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/2/2008 5:10:58 AM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Illinois
Status: offline 		I buy to drink now and later, you could say that I use a "shotgun" approach to buying wine from all around the world, or you could call it the "cluster bomb" approach.  Total saturation.....

(in reply to deb293)
Post #: 19
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/2/2008 6:18:50 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		All my purchases have been for personal drinking -- no resales.  Previous strategy: Buy wines from great vintages which I have done for the past seven years.  Current strategy: Be more selective and purchase wines from known producers.  2005 Bordeaux is probably the last vintage that I will purchase as well as for 2001 Barolo and Brunello.

(in reply to khmark7)
Post #: 20
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/2/2008 7:09:19 PM   
Hollowine

 

Posts: 326
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Hood River, OR
Status: offline 		Pretty much if you took GalvezGuy's approach, and Tom's tastes, you would have my cellar. Except for the Burgundy, haven't been able to grasp pinot yet (probably good thing for my wallet)

I will add one other variant to a buying strategy that Paul in London, and any other road warriors, may grasp...that being the Per Diem Purchase strategy.

When I'm on the road, I always seek out a nice local liquor store for my evening wine (this week it is a nice little '04 CdP). But if I find a store that has a lot of high interest wines, I will actually buy one or two bottles a week for the cellar, and the nice thing is that it is covered in my meals allowance by my customers. I've picked up some gems that way like an '82 Leoville Barton, '87 Dunn, '95 Bordeaux's, etc. just based on having long term projects near great wine stores. That has me thinking, I wonder if any of them do Layaway?...Hmmm, maybe I will be able to get some '05 1st and 2nd growths if I can find one that does, lol.



_____________________________

Have Riedel, will travel...

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 21
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/2/2008 9:04:35 PM   
grafstrb

 

Posts: 498
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: Los Angeles, via Minnesota
Status: offline 		I pretty much try to have some sort of balance between QPR's and
drink now's on hand, but I generally end-up buying too many "agers."  I find much of the fun I have with drinking wine is exploring/trying wines I haven't tasted before, so much of my cellar is comprised of single bottles of wines I haven't yet tried.

I try to strike a balance between various regions I enjoy, but I fail miserably at this, ending up with mostly Paso Robles wines and Rhone wines populating my cellar ... I would like to have more Douro dry reds in my cellar than I do, and I think I've recently set step upon a slippery slope of loving Sauternes.

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Ignore these four words

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Post #: 22
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/3/2008 1:26:14 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Should add the ammendments to the strategy.

1.  Sell Bordeaux, buy ROW.
Hoping to improve the overall quality of the cellar and either pocket the difference, or buy more wine!

2.  Look for Bordeaux bargains that could appear as the crisis bites (did the DOW really drop that far yesterday!)

My main dealer appears to be holding prices and as I generally sell back to him that's good for me.
The smaller dealers seem a little desparate, hence the bargains.

L.

(in reply to grafstrb)
Post #: 23
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/3/2008 5:57:02 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 760
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hollowine

When I'm on the road, I always seek out a nice local liquor store for my evening wine (this week it is a nice little '04 CdP). But if I find a store that has a lot of high interest wines, I will actually buy one or two bottles a week for the cellar, and the nice thing is that it is covered in my meals allowance by my customers. I've picked up some gems that way like an '82 Leoville Barton, '87 Dunn, '95 Bordeaux's, etc. just based on having long term projects near great wine stores. That has me thinking, I wonder if any of them do Layaway?...Hmmm, maybe I will be able to get some '05 1st and 2nd growths if I can find one that does, lol.




Wow - generous clients!

(in reply to Hollowine)
Post #: 24
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/3/2008 8:17:46 AM   
Hollowine

 

Posts: 326
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Hood River, OR
Status: offline
quote:



Wow - generous clients!


Well, most never see the receipt because they just pay $50/day meals allowance. For those that do, I tend to be a little more conservative; it's a fine line, don't want it to appear they have hired a lush for the project...

< Message edited by Hollowine -- 12/3/2008 8:18:04 AM >

_____________________________

Have Riedel, will travel...

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Post #: 25
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/3/2008 6:28:33 PM   
pbm

 

Posts: 348
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: New Hope, Pennsylvania
Status: online 		This has been really revealing because I thought I'd find a lot more formality to the strategies. I guess it makes me feel better that most folks are as undisciplined as I am. Well, maybe not that much better.

_____________________________

PBM
"Never Sell Principle Short"
Dave O'Neal

(in reply to Hollowine)
Post #: 26
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/3/2008 6:45:33 PM   
tacman

 

Posts: 208
Joined: 10/22/2007
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		How does "buy a lot ... drink a lot" sound as a strategy?

_____________________________

"I'm drinking some wine, eating some cheese, and catching some rays, you know..." - Oddball (Kelly's Heroes)

(in reply to pbm)
Post #: 27
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/3/2008 6:47:37 PM   
pbm

 

Posts: 348
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: New Hope, Pennsylvania
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: tacman
How does "buy a lot ... drink a lot" sound as a strategy?


Incredibly familiar.

_____________________________

PBM
"Never Sell Principle Short"
Dave O'Neal

(in reply to tacman)
Post #: 28
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/3/2008 6:52:05 PM   
tacman

 

Posts: 208
Joined: 10/22/2007
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		I guess there are addicts and then there are ADDICTS

_____________________________

"I'm drinking some wine, eating some cheese, and catching some rays, you know..." - Oddball (Kelly's Heroes)

(in reply to pbm)
Post #: 29
RE: Cellar Strategies - 12/3/2008 6:56:36 PM   
Hollowine

 

Posts: 326
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Hood River, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tacman

I guess there are addicts and then there are ADDICTS


Hey, no need to go and get personal...

_____________________________

Have Riedel, will travel...

(in reply to tacman)
Post #: 30
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