CellarTracker Main Site
Register for Forum | Login | My Profile | Member List | Search

Doing The [French] Laundry (formerly: I just ate...)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Cellar Talk] >> General Discussion >> Doing The [French] Laundry (formerly: I just ate...) Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Doing The [French] Laundry (formerly: I just ate...) - 8/4/2008 6:42:04 AM   
rloomis

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		Ratatouille!
We´ve been planning our next sojourn to Napa-Sonoma wine country and my wife managed to get us reservations to The French Laundry!
We´re very excited, of course, but thinking about the price a dinner there will set us back, we´ve been having some reservations about our reservations you might say.
We decided to pull out the DVD of Ratatouille and watch it again. If, by the end of the movie, we still thought it was too expensive and we shouldn´t do it, then at least we made
the decision to decline under the most influential possible circumstances against doing so.
Well, after the movie, we didn´t manage to make any decisions about the restaurant, but we did get inspired to try making a ratatouille of our own following Thomas Keller´s recipe:

In the oven


On the plate


Still laboring over the decision to go, but at least we can think now on a full stomach
Maybe looking over their 100page wine list will help us decide.....

< Message edited by rloomis -- 8/7/2008 10:47:10 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/4/2008 6:59:26 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline 		Go!

I recall one good expression on the subject:

"On the death bed nobody brags they always flew economy class"

:)

_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to rloomis)
Post #: 2
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/4/2008 7:01:16 AM   
pbm

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: New Hope, Pennsylvania
Status: online 		Go!

And if you don't, let me know and I'll take the reservation!

_____________________________

PBM
"Never Sell Principle Short"
Dave O'Neal

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 3
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/4/2008 7:26:58 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Go!

Then come home and start your own restaurant!  That ratatouille looks great.
Craig

(in reply to pbm)
Post #: 4
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/4/2008 6:58:24 PM   
J2K

 

Posts: 360
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: offline 		That dish is mouthwatering!
At this point, you have to go, or you will always say, "we should of......

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 5
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/4/2008 8:40:26 PM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline 		yeap, we ALWAYS regret more about things we haven't done than about mistakes we made, this IS a human nature.

_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to J2K)
Post #: 6
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/6/2008 8:52:44 PM   
rloomis

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		Ok, we're going!
With all the student loans my wife's racked up from law school, worrying about an expensive dinner out at this point would be like having your classic Porsche stolen and complaining that you just re-filled the windshield washer fluid reservoir.
...and maybe if the lawyer thing doesn't work out, she can open a restaurant
She had all the talent on the ratatouille, I was just the sous chef with the job of stacking the slices of tomato, eggplant and squash: red, yellow, green, purple; red, yellow, green, purple; red, yellow, green.....

So now the problem is: order from The French Laundry wine list (full restaurant markups of 3-4x retail) or bring our own from the cellar ($50 corkage). (Does this qualify as a proper use of the word dilemma?)


(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 7
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 6:22:42 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		$50 corkage?  That is utterly insane!  Dilemmma it is! Just out of principle you should bring your own wine and deduct the corkage fee from the total for tip--or have a Martini instead.

(in reply to rloomis)
Post #: 8
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 7:39:13 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline 		That is the highest corkage fee I've heard of.  We're going to Canlis before the CT gathering at Eric's and they charge $35.  I thought that was high.  It's still a savings to pull a $75 bottle from my cellar where they're charging $225 for the same bottle but wait - there's a catch:  You can't bring anything they already have on their list.  Sure makes our local eateries that charge NO corkage look more appetizing!

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 9
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 7:43:21 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

That is the highest corkage fee I've heard of.  We're going to Canlis before the CT gathering at Eric's and they charge $35.  I thought that was high.  It's still a savings to pull a $75 bottle from my cellar where they're charging $225 for the same bottle but wait - there's a catch:  You can't bring anything they already have on their list.  Sure makes our local eateries that charge NO corkage look more appetizing!


The kicker is when restaurants do not allow one to bring wines already on their list but do not post their wine list on the web.  Am I just supposed to guess?

This reminds me of the latest WS article about how we are understandibly dissatisfied with wine in restaurants.  I think I am going to start making my feelings known (politely of course) as only public outcry seems to bring about change.

Oenophiles of the world unite!

< Message edited by cgrimes -- 8/7/2008 7:49:15 AM >

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 10
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 7:47:05 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

Am I just supposed to guess?


Right! 

Maybe the salad should be free because I've got lettuce and tomatoes at home!

I guess they don't want to be upstaged if you bring something that they charge 3X the price for and therefore, display how outrageous their markups are.

< Message edited by fingers -- 8/7/2008 7:49:27 AM >

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 11
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 8:35:49 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

Oenophiles of the world unite!


Wooo-hooo, I knew my knowledge of Marx and Lenin will come handy one day!
;)

I would opt for Martini too.
I say that paying $50 corkage fee is patronizing bad behavior, just like giving money to your children hooked on drugs so they won't get withdrawl symptoms.

For me personally this is not a financial issue ( Baruh Hashem) but a moral issue and martini sits well with my morals over paying  300%+ mark-up or $50 corkage fee.

_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 12
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 8:55:32 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline 		So what do you think the markup on the gin/vodka & vermouth, not to mention broccoli, rice, and chicken are?

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 13
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:00:35 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline 		fingers, this is irrelevant. When you introduce the painter into:
cost of paint, cost of brush, cost of studio to the equation,
the "mark-ups" terms are no longer applicable. We are talking ART now, and the same applies to the Chef and his ingredients.

But...opening the $50 bottle and charge $250 requires no art, just the balls of steel and knowledge that folks will pay it.

_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 14
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:02:40 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline 		Again, how many $12 drinks come out of that $10 bottle of vodka?

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 15
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:07:45 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

Again, how many $12 drinks come out of that $10 bottle of vodka?


Irrelevant. Enough to make me forget about lots of things I don't want to remember after a good bottle of wine.
:)

Not all martinis are created equal, there ARE lousy ones out there, thus making HUMAN INTERACTION the integral part of the CHARGABLE process.

_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 16
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:15:52 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

Again, how many $12 drinks come out of that $10 bottle of vodka?


So...In summary, RL, go to The French Laundry and eat the wonderful culinary creations prepared for you but drink nothing but the water.  If you have the balls, ask them for a slice of lemon to go with it. 

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 17
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:17:12 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline 		Then the wine markup is irrelevant, too.  There's the cost of storage and stewarding, chilling, decanting, stems, etc.  The scary part of BYO is bringing a flawed bottle!

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 18
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:25:48 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline 		not really, I ALWAYS bring bottle opened at home. I had bad experience ONCE of bringing corked bottle to the restaurant - never again!

Wine mark-up IS relevant. It defies common sense and I HATE when my intelligence gets insulted.

Craig, I recall asking for iced tea when martini wasn't an option for the exact reason I just stated above.
:)

_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 19
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:34:49 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline 		fingers, there is only one way to resolve our dispute.
I see some money coming my way:
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2008/aug/aug7a_08.html news is 1 hour old.
If French Laundry or similar restaurant is for sale and I buy it, the corkage fee will go to FREE on Mondays!
;)

_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 20
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:42:36 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair
fingers, there is only one way to resolve our dispute.
If French Laundry or similar restaurant is for sale and I buy it, the corkage fee will go to FREE on Mondays!
;)


Is Monday the day you will also be closed?

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 21
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:46:16 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair
fingers, there is only one way to resolve our dispute.
If French Laundry or similar restaurant is for sale and I buy it, the corkage fee will go to FREE on Mondays!
;)


Is Monday the day you will also be closed?


Au Contraire, pardon my French
:)

Monday is the day when the majority of restaurants are closed in South Florida, I'll be picking up their traffic.
If FREE  corkage won't do the trick, I'll hire strippers to sit at the bar and smile Mona Lisa smile.....
:)

< Message edited by Serge Birbrair -- 8/7/2008 9:48:59 AM >

_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 22
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:54:40 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

I'll hire strippers to sit at the bar and smile Mona Lisa smile.....
:)


I can imagine the markup on that.  Make sure the register has plenty of 1's.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 23
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:58:02 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline 		Fingers, good idea! If you ever seek an alternative employment, hit me on PM, I always on the look out for people who think on their feet.
:)

_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 24
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:59:24 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline 		... or their back!

French Laundry is a perfect theme!  And since you mention it, I did use to run a couple of bikini bars in Anaheim.


http://www.sugarsbar.com/

< Message edited by fingers -- 8/7/2008 10:14:06 AM >

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 25
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 10:08:54 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline 		Damn...you are making another point for me to make it in Seattle in September :)

I am afraid we'll have to change the name from French Laundry to
"Not so Innocent" and serve lots of St Innocent Pinot Noir for extra "wood" or
"Freedom Laundry" to reflect certain sentiments in the country.


_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 26
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 3:11:11 PM   
rloomis

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		I agree, $50 is a lot and I do hate to think I'm contributing to the encouragement of such usurious corkages.  But, I've studied the wine list prices and if you want to eat here, you've got to pay -- one way or the other.  I've pretty much concluded that except for a few of the most extremely rare and expensive wines on their list, anybody with a clue about the kind of wine they should bring to a place like this would be much better off bringing their own.

The French Laundry does offer its wine list online (all 100+ pages) so you can see if they already offer something you might want bring in yourself. This is what the list says about corkage:

The French Laundry offers wine service
for bottles not represented on our list.
$50.00 fee per 750ml bottle
Nulli Secundus
Service Included

Elsewhere on the FL web site, you can browse a sample of the tasting menu to see what kinds of foods to expect to be served.  With 9 or so courses of food, but a small party and limited budget, I figure a blanc de blancs Champage and a good Burgundy are a good way to have the widest compatible food-wine pairings requiring the minimum number of bottles.

The restaurant seems to have figured that out too; based upon their particularly strong Champagne prices and the staggeringly impressive number of 1er cur and grand cru Bourgognes included in their list.

Here's a few of the Champagnes from the list:
Veuve-Clicquot 1999: $32 by the glass
Moët et Chandon, "Dom Pérignon," 1999: $55 by the glass or $510 for a bottle, WOW!
Krug, "Brut," 1995: $685 bottle
Krug, "Clos d'Ambonnay," Grand Cru 1995: $9,120 bottle, that's right, almost ten grand, baby!

I have a bottle of 1995 Dom in the cellar that I picked up a few years ago for about $90. Even with $50 corkage, I'm way ahead; and a  $140 total is still a pretty good price by today's standards.
But ths brings us to their choice of words: "represented on our list".  Is DP "represented" on their list even though it is a different vintage? Hmmmm.....

As an alternate/back-up, maybe a white Burgundy?
Their list offers Louis Carillon, "Les Perrières," 1er Cru 2005: 295 for the bottle.
So as long as that doesn't mean my 2005 Domaine Jomain Puligny-Montrachet 1er Cru Les Perrières is  "represented", I can bring mine, add $50 corkage, and still come out for almost 1/3 their wine list price.
Still kinda sucks to pay as much to drink the bottle as I paid for the bottle though.

For the reds they have:
Clos St. Denis
Domaine Dujac, Grand Cru 2002 for $480

I have a 2002 Olivier Guyot Clos St. Denis for about 125+50=$175.

Reading restaurant reviews from other patrons, I've seen several of them post that the staff have been pretty cool and opened things for customers even if they were on the wine list.  I found this one on their list:
Clos Vougeot, Gros Frere et Soeur, "Musigni," Grand Cru 2005 $360
Which I've seen for sale at a local shop for what now seems like a paltry $175.  Man, I should just go buy 2!

But there might actually be a few good deals hidden in the FL wine list.  If price is not an issue, I found this
wine on their list:
La Tâche Domaine de la Romanée-Conti, Grand Cru 2005 $3,035

Which I found listed at several wine auctions for over $4000.  Hey, maybe I should order that one, I'm saving over a grand!

There's about 10 pages of Bourgognes in their list and to someone really familiar with these wines, there might be a few other hidden deals in there at a more modest price point.  Maybe cgrimes, serge or one of the other CT Bugundy experts can spot something? (keep it under 300 to do me any good) here's the link to the wine list:
http://www.tkrg.org/upload/fl_wine.pdf

Oh, and Serge, good news the oaky pinot noirs of St. Innocent didn't make the list, so you're free to bring in your own bottles!

The Oregon:
Beaux Frères, Yamhill County 2005 185
Beaux Frères, "Beaux Frères Vineyard," Yamhill County 2005 205
Beaux Frères, "The Upper Terrace," Yamhill County 2005 250
Soter, "Mineral Spring Vineyard," Yamhill-Carlton District 2005 170
Ken Wright, "Freedom Hill Vineyard," Willamette Valley 2005 150
Ken Wright, "Freedom Hill Vineyard," Willamette Valley 2006 155
Ken Wright, "Guadalupe Vineyard," Willamette Valley 2005 150
Ken Wright, "Guadalupe Vineyard," Willamette Valley 2006 155
Ken Wright, "Savoya Vineyard," Willamette Valley 2006 155
Ken Wright, "Shea Vineyard," Willamette Valley 2006 155

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 27
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 3:22:28 PM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1493
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline 		$150 for a lousy bottle of 05-06 Oregon PN!?

cukf me running!!!  There are lots of things I blow $150 bucks for but the hell will freeze before I pay 3 times retail for $50 bottle of wine.
I paid 3 times mark up for $9 retail Riesling, but $150?????
I'd rather jog.

_____________________________

Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

(in reply to rloomis)
Post #: 28
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:02:23 PM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Even the Beaux Freres Upper Terrace retails for less than $100--and they are too young right now.  RL, I'll get back to you when I peruse the list but it doesn't look promising based on your examples above.  In my opinion, they shouldn't even have some of those wines on the list due to immaturity.  A good wine list (especially one with a cellar) should be featuring only those wines which are in their peak drinking window.  Would any of you other Burg lovers order a 2002 Grand Cru in a restaurant at this stage?

Ok, after looking at the list, bring your wine...and close your eyes when you see the corkage fee.  That was the most outrageously priced list I have ever seen--routinely 3-4 times retail. 

Just this week I wrote a check for Kistler chards McCrea/Dutton--$75/bottle.  $400+ for the 2005s!!!!!!  The scary thing is that people are buying it.

Alternatively I'd get a bottle of the Schramsburg BdB and a nice German Riesling--probably the only decent wines under 100.
Craig

BTW--can someone pop this thread over to the French Laundry? 

< Message edited by cgrimes -- 8/7/2008 9:31:06 PM >

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 29
RE: I just ate.................. - 8/7/2008 9:51:31 PM   
Hollowine

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Hood River, OR
Status: offline 		My wife trained as a chef and one of her all time biggest complaints was the markups on beverages and desserts, the two areas that the restaurants make a substantial amount of their profits from. Part of the reason she got out of the trade, just brutal nonsense.

Based on the photos this thread started with, you obviously enjoy cooking and have some talent at it. I'd recommend you go there and enjoy the food, which is going to set you back enough especially if you take any of the optional add-ons they do. As far as wine, either take a single bottle of your own and enjoy it for all you can, or go without. Take the money you would have spent on one or more of their bottles and buy the French Laundry cookbook when you get home, set aside a nice Saturday afternoon to prep and cook your own mini FL menu, and then open a few bottles out of your cellar and enjoy the memories of your visit to Napa and your time cooking and drinking with the ones you love. I've never been to FL, would maybe like to someday, but we do own the cookbook and there is never a corkage fee at our house.

BTW - For those of you who love the food and wine restaurant experience, I think you would get just as much or more out of The Herb Farm in Woodinville, WA (North of Seattle), rated in the Top 10 restaurants in America consistently. Also a fixed price menu (roughly $180/person), but they also pair wines with nearly every course (usually 7-9 courses) as well as having one of the PNW's most extensive wine lists in case you need to order that extra bottle for the table. Dessert almost always includes a vintage Madeira, I think it was a 1912 served with dinner when we went there. Anyway, worth the look and certainly an experience to be had, the menu changes every 1-2 weeks based on seasonal ingredients. And if you should have a romantic bent to you and want to coordinate with the Willow's Lodge next door, they offer a nice romantic package.

And plus, there are many wineries in Woodinville if you want to make a bit of a tasting weekend out of it, certainly overall cheaper than Napa.

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Cellar Talk] >> General Discussion >> Doing The [French] Laundry (formerly: I just ate...) Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.172