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Effective tasting at wineries - 8/1/2008 5:00:48 PM

zitarell

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I visited Walla Walla about a month ago and visited many wineries. At each stop, I wrote brief notes for myself, and I bought wines from many of the wineries.

Lately, we have been drinking a bunch of these same bottles, and my notes look completely different. So this is leading me to wonder whether the type of tasting that one does when visiting wineries is any kind of effective way to judge a wine.

The pours are often miniscule, and I generally have no idea how long the bottle has been open. Or maybe I'm just visiting too many in a day and blitzing my palate. Has anyone had any luck in properly identifying good wines from winery visits?

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/1/2008 5:42:44 PM

Blue Shorts

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zitarell

I visited Walla Walla about a month ago and visited many wineries. At each stop, I wrote brief notes for myself, and I bought wines from many of the wineries.

Lately, we have been drinking a bunch of these same bottles, and my notes look completely different. So this is leading me to wonder whether the type of tasting that one does when visiting wineries is any kind of effective way to judge a wine.

The pours are often miniscule, and I generally have no idea how long the bottle has been open. Or maybe I'm just visiting too many in a day and blitzing my palate. Has anyone had any luck in properly identifying good wines from winery visits?

I find that many wineries, unfortunately, have sub-par conditions for wine tasting. You wouldn't expect it, but often the whites are too cold... the reds are too warm. Also, the glasses used are typically cheap white wine glasses that are not very good for whites, bad for cabs, and horrible for pinot noir.

You're also right about conditions.

The best thing to do is to ask questions about when the bottle was opened, whether it was decanted, the relative temperature (I'm not suggesting using a thermometer, but you should be able to tell if it's in the right range.. and make a note of it).

Also, the time of day that you taste a wine... what you ate recently.... what wine you had just before the one that you choose...your mood...the company that you are with.. the atmosphere in the room.. all have a bearing on your enjoyment of wine. Drinking fine wine is like fine dining. Good food alone does not make for a great dining experience.

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/2/2008 8:52:20 AM

pbm

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Merry Edwards had the most "professional" tasting of the 20 Sonoma wineries we visited last month. You need to schedule ahead and you have a one-hour tasting in a private room with a very knowledgeable and personable host -- not to mention great wines. Sounds like what you're looking for is going to be mostly available from the smaller but well established producers.

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/2/2008 9:15:34 AM

Serge Birbrair

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more often than not the wine you loved at the winery is the same wine you are less than impressed when you open the bottle at home. I can't explain why it happens, but it happens quite a lot. Knowing that, I don't usually buy lots of wine at the winery.

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/2/2008 9:20:43 AM

pbm

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Have to agree with you Serge. It must have something to do with the ambiance but I've learned the hard way over the years not to buy something just because the first tasting at a winery is pleasant. At the least, I try to circle back at the end of the tasting and try it again. When possible, I go back another day.

Peter

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/2/2008 9:29:41 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Peter, I'll be on my way to visit wineries in Oregon in few hours. I earmarked Soter, Bergstrom, St Innocent and Airlie. I hope to bring home not more than 6 bottles, if that much, most likely some 2005 Airlie Dry Riesling we had at restaurant. "Knowledge is power" and...we KNOW!
:)

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/2/2008 10:26:46 AM

zitarell

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Serge - welcome to the Pac-NW! If you have time/desire, Medici Vineyards (tasting room in Newberg) has made some Pinots in the $20-$30 range that I have enjoyed in the past. I have not visited their tasting room, though.

-- Paul Z

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/2/2008 10:30:41 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Paul, thanks! I definately love the name! :) We'll check them out today, time permiting.

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/2/2008 10:42:29 AM

bschwindtcoffee

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Serge-

Another Welcome to Oregon! When I take folks around here for tastings I enjoy starting off with some sparkling wine. Argyle in Dundee has a tasting room and enjoyabe pinots but a good range of bubbly. A flight of a few bland de blancs is a nice way to start your palate towards other tastings:

691 N Hwy 99W
Dundee, OR 97115-9700
Phone: (503) 538-8520

Have a great trip!

Brandon

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/2/2008 1:41:35 PM

rloomis

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That happens to us so many times tasting at wineries. We think we like something we tasted there and bring a bottle or two home only to open it and say, ¨What the @#$ were we thinking!!?¨
This happens regularly enough that I´ve wondered if the tasting rooms know precisely how long to open a bottle in advance to breathe, the optimal temperature to serve a particular wine, and just maybe even have a few ¨select¨ cases of product set aside for the tasting room.
Then again, maybe my tinfoil hat is on too tight.

< Message edited by rloomis -- 8/2/2008 1:42:03 PM >

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/2/2008 2:32:29 PM

Hollowine

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I have both experienced this phenomena as well as worked in some of the tasting rooms in Walla Walla as some of my friends own wineries up there. From the consumer side, it is frustrating and I think some of it may be related to the X-Factor in that you are there at the winery, hearing all the "positives" they can throw at it, often times smelling the sweet smell of oak as the current vintage ages in the room adjacent to the tasting room (or sometimes the tasting table is in the winery workings itself), and if you have heard any "buzz" about the wines or are speaking to the winemaker it is easy to want to buy. There is a sales slogan "people buy from people" and when you personalize the experience, perhaps the mind overrides the palate.

From the Tasting room perspective I think it is hard to specifically cater to educated palates when often times you are serving wines to people that show up by the bus load. Because of this, good glassware, ideal temperature conditions, etc are sometimes hard to offer, but I have seen many of the wineries, especially the smaller, more personal ones, willing to sit down with you and do more of a private tasting and even offer up some of the Reidel most of them have in the back. Some of the larger operations will offer private tastings for a fee, sometimes worth it sometimes not, depending on how they structure the tasting.

We go to Spring Release weekend every year in WW, and we haven't generally been able to get any feel for wines you don't already know when WW is flooded with thousands of wine tourists that weekend. We mostly go to pick up our held orders and get a sip of what we have already bought based on track record. For tasting new wineries and or more thorough tastings, we usually try to go up for a weekend off season and call ahead to some of our favorites to see if they will set aside some time to have a more relaxed, ideal tasting.

I will add one interesting tasting I did recently that has changed my thoughts somewhat on how wineries with >4 bottle portfolios do their tastings. Last March I was in the Barossa and McLaren Vale on business with a weekend to kill...(jeez, tough business trip, eh?) Since first time in Australia, I went to several large and small favorites of mine, but also was fortunate to get a visit at Mollydooker's new winery. What I really liked about how they handled their tasting was they did not do like many wineries where they have 12 bottles out on the bar, you taste the whites, then step up through the reds that are often progressed through in increasing fruit weight and price. Instead, we walked through the winery doing tank samples and we progressed from juice that did not make the grade and is being sold off in bulk, to wine that is their $15 offering, then their $50 offering, then their $80 offering, but as we tasted we stayed in a single varietal, so you were able to see the progression of Shiraz from bad to ok to good to very good. Then we went to the Cab and did it all over. I liked not jumping back and forth among varietals versus how some wineries do their tastings, and now often ask to taste in that order independent of how a winery has lined up their wares.

Just my two cents worth...

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/2/2008 9:13:44 PM

Serge Birbrair

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Paul, Medici was a big disapointment. We ended up with just one botle out of 10 we tasted -
2007 Pinot Gris produced by...I'll enter the producer later when I enter all purchases in CT, but it wasn't Medici.

The Ferraro from Washington State sharing the room was barely drinkable.

Brandon, I wish I saw your post before we left...oh well, there is always the next year
:)

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/2/2008 10:54:33 PM

zitarell

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Oh no! Sorry to have led you astray, Serge.

Next time you're traveling, let me know, and I will send more recommendations. Then you will know where NOT to visit!

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/3/2008 12:49:44 AM

Maestro

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The "X Factor" affects everything, not just wine. I have occasionally made the mistake of buying the local specialty of a country (be it a food, a drink, a spice, whatever), which I had enjoyed very much down there, just to find out that "it just tastes wrong" when you consume the same thing back home.

Having said that, there are people who talk about the "magic barrels" from which the tasting room samples might come (Bob Parker mentions the issue in his Wine Buying guide). According to that theory, wineries might actually provide you with samples in the tasting room of higher quality than the average of the wine being tasted, especialy in bad years.

I can't confirm or deny. Here in Italy I don't think it happens often (if at all). I think the "X Factor" is a more plausible explanation.

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/3/2008 10:07:19 AM

esb

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I enjoy visiting wineries, but I don't go with the goal of purchasing wine. For me, it's just not the right place or time to make buying decisions. I always try to purchase a bottle or two if they have some potential and then look at the wine again at home in a better, or more objective, environment. When I go to wineries I talk to the representatives to find out what they are trying to do. I like to talk about vineyards and grapes because I think that matters. But, usually I'm with my wife and dog so I don't get too obsessed with the details and make too much out of the whole experience. For balance, and to give my palate a break, I like to work in other activities, like a long lunch, bocce or frisbee for the dog.

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/3/2008 10:10:14 AM

Serge Birbrair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zitarell

Oh no! Sorry to have led you astray, Serge.

Next time you're traveling, let me know, and I will send more recommendations. Then you will know where NOT to visit!

oh, c'mon, EVERY expereince in life is a valuable expereince. If you don't know what you don't like, how can you appreciate what you do like!?
;)

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/4/2008 10:41:28 AM

grafstrb

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Zitarell,

Interesting post ... the same thing has happened to me many times. I, like others who've already commented, attribute this phenomenon to the "tasting room x-factor." I think this phenomenon happens more often when you're tasting estate wines at the estate (or when you're tasting any wine in the same place the grapes were grown and the juice fermented). Wine is an organic thing that takes on certain elements of its environment. If you're tasting wine in the same place the wine is from then your tasting environment is sure to be complementary to the wine.

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/4/2008 1:17:49 PM

GalvezGuy

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I have certainly seen this happen with some tasting room wines. Blair Fox Syrah comes most vividly to mind. During winery visits, I follow the protocol of not actually drinking the wine. I find that my palate and experience changes with enough alcohol inside. My last trip through Santa Barbara, I did not find a single wine that I would purchase from the winery. I did find one from a tasting room that blew me away (Herman Story White Hawk Syrah).

I think a combination of drinking, winery ambiance, enthusiasm and knowledge of the pourer can contribute to the total experience making the wine appear to be more than it was. Very interesting thread.

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/4/2008 10:43:24 PM

Hollowine

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Knowledge of the pourer...get out of here...

I was in the tasting room of a well known winery in Walla Walla a year ago and the owner of the winery was pouring for the crowd (Now in this case owner does not equal wine maker, and they had recently lost their winemaker to another venture). A customer was poured the Red Blend that was made from classical Bordeaux varietals and the customer asked what those varietals were. The owner couldn't answer beyond Cab Sauv and, flailing, saw me standing there and knew I would likely know based on my history with the winery. I rattled them off and the customer still bought a case...ka-ching, the sound of money indiscreminately spent...

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/4/2008 10:43:40 PM

Hollowine

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/4/2008 10:43:46 PM

Hollowine

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/4/2008 10:43:46 PM

Hollowine

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/5/2008 2:50:40 AM

NiklasW

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Point taken...

. I have tended to visit chateaus that I have researched already and want to buy their wine in any case. The tasting part is a kind of bonus that allows me to get a more personal experience from buying the wine. It's fun and get's ever more fun as I know more and more!

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/5/2008 9:01:57 PM

Serge Birbrair

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I am baffled.

1st bottle at the restaurant - beauty!
bought case + 1 bottle at the winery, tried another bottle of this wine at the restaurant -
same beauty as before.
Today opened the bottle bought at the winery and...
no seducing petrol notes the bottles bought at restaurant had, no full body, and tastes even like it has less sugar.

How can it be!?????

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/5/2008 9:22:45 PM

GalvezGuy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hollowine

Knowledge of the pourer...get out of here...

In the tasting rooms at some of the smaller wineries, the pourer might actually be someone that know a lot about the vineyards and winemaking. I have seen both ends of the spectrum.

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/5/2008 9:35:02 PM

Hollowine

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Reading back through my posts, looks like either I have a stuttering problem or I'm nipping the bottle a bit myself...

Stupid hotel internet connections!

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/5/2008 9:40:12 PM

Hollowine

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Absolutely agree, and probably the reason my cellar is at the state it is today, I very much enjoy talking with the winemakers I have become friends with and in a few instances help with crush -- sometimes they even let me add the WD40...

quote:

ORIGINAL: GalvezGuy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hollowine

Knowledge of the pourer...get out of here...

In the tasting rooms at some of the smaller wineries, the pourer might actually be someone that know a lot about the vineyards and winemaking. I have seen both ends of the spectrum.

(in reply to GalvezGuy)

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/6/2008 6:33:00 AM

fingers

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Serge,

Two good ones and one pisser? May be rhetorical, but are you sure that it is not flawed? Open another, brother. That's the only way to know!

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/6/2008 7:23:10 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Fingers, I don't have anymore, I left the case at the winery to be shipped in November.

Oh well...

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RE: Effective tasting at wineries - 8/6/2008 8:28:00 AM

Blue Shorts

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

I am baffled.

1st bottle at the restaurant - beauty!
bought case + 1 bottle at the winery, tried another bottle of this wine at the restaurant -
same beauty as before.
Today opened the bottle bought at the winery and...
no seducing petrol notes the bottles bought at restaurant had, no full body, and tastes even like it has less sugar.

How can it be!?????

Maybe that wine can only be savored in a restaurant. They say that wine is a living, breathing entity. Maybe it's true

I wonder how different wineries combine the barrels of wine prior to bottling to ensure that all bottles will be the same, especially with non-fined, non-filtered wine. Is it all put in a giant tank first? If it is, then how do they ensure that the bottom of the tank will be the same as the top? Do the constantly stir it?

We always talk about storage effecting the taste of wine, but not the process of creating the wine and bottling.

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