Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy and were afraid to ask

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Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy and w... - 6/19/2008 3:18:07 AM

Serge Birbrair

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WINE TALK; In Burgundy, a Name Is No Explanation
BORDEAUX,'' the wine writer Gerald Asher once noted, ''is a hierarchy; Burgundy is a democracy.''
Which goes a long way to explain why Burgundy is so maddeningly complicated. Bordeaux is like a pyramid, with simple red and white wines at the base and the lofty first growths, like Châteaux Margaux and Latour, at the top. In Burgundy, the good, the bad and the indifferent sometimes seem hopelessly intertwined. They are not, of course, but one has to be something of an expert to find this out.

I rec this article to anybody who is not seeking adrenalin rush of a Russian Roulette player and who wants to double their bating averages with Burgundy. Well written, factual and easy to comprehend.

and this one:

Burgundy Learns to Bottle Consistency
Just last month Robert M. Parker Jr., the wine critic, repeated the old saw when he wrote in his column in Business Week, “Red Burgundy is the ultimate minefield of the wine world — notoriously unreliable, often disappointing, and rarely living up to its illustrious reputation.”
In fact, the quality of Burgundy — red Burgundy in particular — has risen strikingly over the last two decades. From the smallest growers to the biggest houses, the standards of grape-growing and winemaking have surpassed anybody’s expectations. These days, Burgundy has very few bad vintages, and among good producers, surprisingly few bad wines.
The best producers, like Domaine de la Romanée-Conti and Armand Rousseau, always managed to achieve a high standard, but nowadays the bar has been raised for everybody. And it’s not just the Côte d’Or, the heart of Burgundy, that has shown such improvement. Surrounding areas like the Côte Chalonnaise and the Mâconnais, still part of Burgundy, are producing better wine than ever, at not unreasonable prices. Sure, you can still find bad Burgundy. But really, it’s not hard to find bad wines from any fine wine region.

and if Master Degree in Burgundy is your goal,
here is the rest:
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/w/wines/burgundy_red/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier

< Message edited by Serge Birbrair -- 6/19/2008 3:19:37 AM >

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/19/2008 8:25:19 AM

cob

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Thanks Serge. Great articles to help lay a foundation to build on for understanding this complicated region.

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/19/2008 10:27:37 AM

Paul S

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Amen. Parker and Burgundy producers have had a hate-hate relationship for a LONG time. I personally am not sure he understands or appreciates Burgs as much as he does Bordeaux or Rhone. Many of the producers do not kowtow to him by sending samples for him to taste like producers from other regions. They simply do not care what he thinks, because their productions are so small and their following generally so loyal that they sell out all the time anyway.

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/19/2008 12:09:55 PM

Serge Birbrair

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Paul, the beloved "Emperor" has no respect in Burgundy and this I see as stabilazing factor as far as prices are concerned.

Now let's give Emperor proper due respect and sing along all together
Pink Floyd's
"We don't need no education,
we don't need no thought control..."
:)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/19/2008 12:30:47 PM

cgrimes

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There is a great story about Parker in Burgundy (which may be urban myth) where after essentially being denied access at most local wineries (for reasons unknown to me) he proceeded to go to a local shop to purchase wines for review. After giving the shop owner his credit card, the man realized who he was, handed the card back to Parker, and told him that his money was not good here.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/19/2008 12:48:24 PM

Serge Birbrair

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CG, I doubt he covered this episode, even if it's true, in his books
;)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/19/2008 7:40:44 PM

Paul S

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

There is a great story about Parker in Burgundy (which may be urban myth) where after essentially being denied access at most local wineries (for reasons unknown to me) he proceeded to go to a local shop to purchase wines for review. After giving the shop owner his credit card, the man realized who he was, handed the card back to Parker, and told him that his money was not good here.

I have heard that story before!! Did some digging up, and found there may be some truth in it after all. A couple of links for you guys with th relevant text extracted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Parker%2C_Jr.

Burgundy proved much more difficult to Parker than Bordeaux, in particular because of the Faiveley case. In the 3rd edition of his Wine Buyer's Guide (1993), Parker reported rumours according to which "the Faiveley wines tasted abroad would be less rich than those one can taste on the spot [...]" [23]. In other words: Faiveley would be cheating. In February 1994, Parker was requested to appear in front of the Paris "tribunal de grande instance". Even though the case was settled outside court, it left a bitter taste, as a number of Burgundy wine makers supported Faiveley's defense against Parker. The latter never really managed to get into Burgundy: this is probably why he delegated this region to Pierre-Antoine Rovani as of April 1997.

http://www.winespectator.com/Wine/Archives/Show_Article/0,1275,219,00.html

Burgundy vintner François Faiveley has dropped a libel lawsuit against Robert Parker after reaching an out-of- court settlement with the American wine critic and his book publisher.
In February, Faiveley sued Parker and the critic's publisher, Simon & Schuster, over a passage in Parker's Wine Buyer's Guide that Faiveley believed libeled his winery. According to the agreement, the defendants will eliminate the controversial paragraph from future editions of the book. Faiveley also said that the settlement calls for the publisher to stop distributing the current edition of the book after May 30, the date the settlement was signed. Parker also published a notice in his newsletter, The Wine Advocate.

"Robert Parker has agreed to what I had asked," said Faiveley, an influential négociant in Burgundy. He said he never asked for any damages beyond a symbolic 1 franc from each of the defendants.

No wonder he is persona non grata in Burgundy.

(in reply to cgrimes)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/19/2008 8:03:16 PM

cgrimes

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Thanks for the links! The DRAMA!

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/20/2008 12:51:41 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Faiveley was the biggest producer $$$ wise in my 2005 Burgundy purchases. Medows loves him on the most part.

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/20/2008 2:12:08 AM

Paul S

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Yup. He's very consistent. Reds take a long time to come around though, with most of them having the structure to last years and years. Just had his Clos de Beze 2001 sometime earlier in the week. http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=33931

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/20/2008 5:03:56 AM

cgrimes

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By the way, it has been great having some discussions about Burgundy recently. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who can talk this subject (not that I profess to be an expert). We should have an ongoing Burgundy thread...

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/20/2008 10:32:06 AM

Paul S

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Certainly! Do you have a chapter of the Confrerie du Tastevin in Massachusetts? You should look them up. I'm not a member of the Singapore chapter, but I am lucky enough to meet and fall-in with a few of them and some fellow Burgundy lovers - having more people to drink Burgs with helps a lot.

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/20/2008 5:52:25 PM

cgrimes

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I dont know about that...I'll have to look them up.

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/21/2008 4:47:46 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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Never been disappointed by a wine with their badge on - Confrerie du Tastevin.

Certainly helps when you have a superficial knowledge about Burgundy.

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/21/2008 5:32:17 AM

Rak

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Thank you for the very useful links Serge.

I'm increasingly seduced by red Burgundys but remain profoundly ignorant of this 'Alice in wonderland' region. Your links will render me less dumb....

Happy drinking!

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/21/2008 7:36:25 AM

Paul S

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Soon - another wine drinker will be lured by the charms of Burgundy. Welcome Rak.

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/21/2008 7:46:20 AM

Bill

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Serge, nice topic!

And every time I see the header, in my mind I see a Martian running around the vineyards in Burgundy wondering what he is doing there…..I can’t help it.

I really have to see that old Woody Allen movie once again, to see if it’s still funny.

Cheers,
Bill.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/22/2008 7:16:45 AM

Rak

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What a splendid thread.

Thanks Paul!

I can forsee uncomfortable appointments with my bank manager.....!

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/22/2008 7:29:49 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Burgundy......

I can compare Burgundy to the daughters.

ALL men I know, no exceptions taken, always wanted to have sons. All of them, no exceptions taken, lost their marbles with daughters.

As much as every "real man" likes to praise and admire Bordeaux, "the real men" lose their marbles, wallets, night sleep with Burgundy.

This Sunday Cermon and Life Observation was brought to you by the one with marbles lost on both acounts, therefore -
disregard in it's entirety and see if you discover this on your own!
:)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/22/2008 7:43:39 AM

Rak

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Farewell sanity!

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/22/2008 3:52:31 PM

apes

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Serge you are on the right track, the more I drink of Burgundy the better I like. So those fruit bombs I used to love now pale in comparison. Tonight's wine was a Maestro suggestion,
2002 Michele & Patrice Rion Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Clos des Argillières, you should try it, $59
Going down the price scale,
2005 Château de Chamirey Mercurey, drink now or cellar. I paid $31, don't know how the avg. CT price is $58
2005 Nicolas Potel Nuits St. Georges, $50, you will not be disappointed, maybe the best of the lot.

Although, not sure if our taste buds are inline, wasn't crazy about the Cancilla, but you you said "this is not Burgundy juice by a long shot".

Wednesday I drop my daughter off in Westchester NY, I will be stopping by Zachy's to pick up some more Burgundies. 18% off but I see they raised some of the prices first.

Beaune Clos de la Mousse Bouchard 2005

Beaune Les Pertuisots Domaine des Croix 2005

Gevrey Chambertin En Champs Geantet-Pansiot 2005

Cote de Nuits Villages Robignotte Gilles Jourdan 2005

Nuits St Georges Nicholas Potel 2005

Chablis Fourchaume Vaulorent Fevre 2005

Chambolle Musigny Joseph Drouhin 2005

Nuits St Georges Les Cailles Bouchard 2002

Nuits St Georges Les Vaucrains Jean Chauvenet 2002

I would like to try some more white Burgundy, but I'm having a harder time. I think I'm a red wine snob, can't see paying more then $25 for Chardonnay.

(in reply to Rak)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/22/2008 5:35:05 PM

Serge Birbrair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: apes

I think I'm a red wine snob, can't see paying more then $25 for Chardonnay.

..and you are absolutely right!
I had 2 White Burgs in my cellar,
both superb, both with no noticable oak and both are under $25!!!

Here is one which is widely available:
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=503173

Deb, I had one "unusual" bottle too, you are not alone.

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/22/2008 8:25:11 PM

Paul S

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Had the 2004 Geantet-Pansiot En Champs not too long ago: http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=174638

If anything, I find the wine making style extremely modern and un-Burgundy like. I would have thought it was a new world if tasted blind. I understand that this is somewhat of a house style. Nevertheless, it was a well-made wine which was a real pleasure to drink.

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/22/2008 8:31:56 PM

Paul S

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I never quite understood why people would pay hundreds for white Burg until I tasted one or two that were simply astounding. Now I'm a believer. There are Chardonnays, some of which are very decent, and then there is Burgundy.

All it needs is one bottle, and you're hooked. The last steller one I had, which will be pricey, but not TOO expensive I think, is Nicolas Potel's Criots-Batard-Montrachet 2006. Swoon. http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=508730

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/23/2008 12:52:16 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul S

I never quite understood why people would pay hundreds for white Burg until I tasted one or two that were simply astounding. Now I'm a believer. There are Chardonnays, some of which are very decent, and then there is Burgundy.

I know that feeling, just once - a great Mersault - and shame on me don't recall the vineyard, vintage or negociant.
Never again, and that's with hundreds of tries.
The joy and frustration of Burgundy.
L.

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/23/2008 4:15:56 AM

Paul S

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I know that feeling! Rak - that's something you will have to get used to. That one magical bottle, red or white, then a lifelong search for the next bit of magic. Problem is, I have had tons of good wines from Bordeaux, Rhone, Italy, Spain, New World etc etc etc... some I really, really love and rate really highly... still, no Burg magic. Only Burgs have cast that spell on me.

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/23/2008 5:33:13 AM

Rak

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Hello Paul,

At the risk of this becoming a red Burg only zone, I agree about the hypnotic spell cast by the noble pinot noir. I'm spending more and more per bottle. Drat!

Although I like some white Burgundys (e.g. the Chablis wines of Jean-Marc Brocard), they can't muster up the sort of dizzying passion that the majestic pinot noir commands. What the devil has happened to me? You CTs are making this worse....!

Happy drinking!

(in reply to Paul S)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/23/2008 5:55:24 AM

NiklasW

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I just read this book last weekend: "Reflections of a Wine Merchant" by Neal I. Rosenthal. While he writes about Italy as well, his main focus is on Bourgogne as it was in the '80s. Absolutely fascinating! He tries to demystify and unromantisize the life of a wine merchant, but fails miserably. After reading the book, I felt like giving up life as it is now and going into the wine business...

I also felt that I have to start looking into Bourgogne in more detail.

(in reply to Rak)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/23/2008 6:06:11 AM

cgrimes

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I am the opposite. Though I like Red Burgs very much, I have yet to hit that "magic" bottle but I have for white Burgs and they blow me away more than ANY red wine has--perhaps because my expectations of white wine is diminished and that great bottle knocks me off guard.

BTW I never thought I'd drink a CA Chard that would hit those dizzying heights--until last night. '94 Kistler Durrell Vineyard-- http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=9797

< Message edited by cgrimes -- 6/23/2008 7:40:38 AM >

(in reply to Rak)

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RE: Everything you ever wanted to know about Burgundy a... - 6/24/2008 7:57:16 AM

apes

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Any sub $50 white burgs, that are readily available you would recommend?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

I am the opposite. Though I like Red Burgs very much, I have yet to hit that "magic" bottle but I have for white Burgs and they blow me away more than ANY red wine has--perhaps because my expectations of white wine is diminished and that great bottle knocks me off guard.

BTW I never thought I'd drink a CA Chard that would hit those dizzying heights--until last night. '94 Kistler Durrell Vineyard-- http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=9797

(in reply to cgrimes)

Post #: 30