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For zippz - 8/27/2008 8:26:08 AM

cgrimes

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline

I have tried to be restrained, to give you the benefit of doubt, to be tolerant, to just see what happens over time... After all, I am just one person on a wine forum and my personal opinions matter little when judging the behavior of others. However, it appears to me that you have an incurable condition, a personality disorder, the hallmark of which is a complete lack of insight into your condition.

I am not the thought police, and I consider myself quite tolerant of lots of different philosophies and persuasions. However, the fact remains that this is a wine forum, not a political forum or one to discuss societal taboos, and I simply do not feel it appropriate for anyone (including myself) to pontificate on these subjects. That does not mean I am ignorant or "sheeply," it just means that I exercise a bit of restraint.

Now, you may say, "What about Serge..." and his "tangents." While I do not feel all of his posts are appropriate (we've discussed this before so this is no surprise to him), he actually contributes greatly to wine discussions on this forum...He is not in the same category.

I cannot tell you what to say or what to do--that is for you to decide, but my recommendation would be to go infect some other forum with your verse. We are a sleepy board--I'm sure there is more fertile ground out there in cyberspace...

I have spoken my mind--for better or worse--and I'll not intervene any further on this subject (or any other you may like to bring up). My feelings will be reflected in my silence...

Craig

Post #: 1

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 10:05:17 AM

NiklasW

Posts: 509
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline

You beat me to it Craig, and said it so much more gracefully than I would have. Same sentiments from this side of the Atlantic, Zippz. I'm here to discuss wine, not US politics.

(in reply to cgrimes)

Post #: 2

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 10:28:43 AM

Serge Birbrair

Posts: 1545
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: NiklasW

You beat me to it Craig, and said it so much more gracefully than I would have. Same sentiments from this side of the Atlantic, Zippz. I'm here to discuss wine, not US politics.

Niklas, my name is Serge and I am "Devil's Advocate"

I would like to start my shpill with
discussing the book

by
Tyler Colman,
How Governments, Environmentalists, Mobsters, and Critics Influence the Wines We Drink.

from the book review:
Wine Politics exposes a little-known but extremely influential aspect of the wine business—the politics behind it. Tyler Colman systematically explains how politics affects what we can buy, how much it costs, how it tastes, what appears on labels, and more. He offers an insightful comparative view of wine-making in Napa and Bordeaux, tracing the different paths American and French wines take as they travel from vineyard to dining room table. Colman also explores globalization in the wine business and illuminates the role of behind-the-scenes players such as governments, distributors, and prominent critics who wield enormous clout. Throughout, Wine Politics reveals just how deeply politics matters— right down to the taste of the wine in your glass tonight.

Wine and politics and taxation related to wine are as old as wine itself.
There is no book written about wine history which doesn't also deal with politics.

Therefore, I suggest using ignore button if politics and wine related politics is not your cup of tea.
For us, living in USA, politics plays major role in our wine drinking-
every state has it's own set of laws and few years ago the intervention of the Supreme Court was needed for me to have my favorite wines shipped to me from other states, and this IS POLITICS!

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to NiklasW)

Post #: 3

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 10:42:19 AM

Serge Birbrair

Posts: 1545
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online

P.S. zippz is getting on my nerves at times too, but I learned how to control the urges and skip the baits.

There are worse things than politics and other non wine directly related discussions on the chat boards:
1) Boredom, when the only discussion is about wine and nothing else. Will you socialize in real life with people who can only discuss wines and
do not discuss books, movies, sports, sex, religion, politics, arts, travel?
I bet none of us would survive for long in this company day after day after day after day.
As much as I love wine, I'd go berserk discussing wine and nothing else ad nausea

2) What do you do when you find TV channel you absolutely hate and despise (like FOX, in my example?)
Do you:
a) break TV?
b) write the station owner and tell him he is a putz?
c) skip to the next channel and do not sweat the small things?

I do "c" and I don't let morons and their idiotic suggestions like "let taxpayers money pay for Viagra but abortions must be pronounced as a crime" bother me one bit.
When I ignore O'Reily and other mental terrorists do not win.

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 4

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 11:09:02 AM

jhannah27

Posts: 523
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Anaheim, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

2) What do you do when you find TV channel you absolutely hate and despise (like FOX, in my example?)
Do you:
a) break TV?
b) write the station owner and tell him he is a putz?
c) skip to the next channel and do not sweat the small things?

I do "c" and I don't let morons and their idiotic suggestions like "let taxpayers money pay for Viagra but abortions must be pronounced as a crime" bother me one bit.
When I ignore O'Reily and other mental terrorists do not win.

I agree with your sentiment, Serge, especially that it would be boring and annoying to have to spend time with someone who only speaks about wine. And I also agree that wine can be political. I am all for discussing politics and legal issues as they relate to wine.

I think the bigger point is that I would imagine most people on this board come here to watch this "wine channel," and to talk with others about wine. In my case, I go elsewhere for my news and politics that have nothing to do with wine.

There's my two cents anyway. I am a big fan of the "ignore" function, since it is likely that this thread will just bring about a lengthy pontification from zippz about how sheepish we all are and how we don't think on our own.

_____________________________

"Quickly! Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever."
Aristophanes 450 - 385 b.c.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 5

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 11:16:31 AM

zippz

Posts: 233
Joined: 6/28/2008
From: Chicago IL USA
Status: offline

lol jhannah... how did you know?

well... ready or not here it is
.
.
.
craig...

i'm sorry that you feel any discomfort due to my "disorder"
...you are obviously not alone in your discomfort
believe it or not... i feel your pain... i am human too

the fact that you have broken your silence in this fashion
shows that what i type really matters a great deal to you
the pain i must have "infected/inflicted" must have been unbearable
i appreciate you sharing ... though i do question the approach

now if i started a thread titled "For Cgrimes" in the general discussion...
and then boasted that i possessed the virtues of tolerance/restrain
as i attempt to curb your tongue on matters that make me uncomfortable
...i wonder what personality disorder that would be a symptom of?

i have noted quite a few "personality disorders" around here
and yes i include myself in that pot... i am by far not perfect...
but i would never have gone so far as to craft a thread or poll
singling someone whom i dislike and/or disagree with
posts and PMs show less arrogance, more tough-love and compassion

as you are well aware... being a fan and all
i have presented my case on a number of occasions
and based on some of the reactions i have received
i think the "complete lack of insight into my condition"
you are referring to... is valid but sorely misdirected
it's more accurate to say that where ever you go
it's likely you will find a handful of people
who live in a bubble, are very thin skinned but act on the contrary

i have been the butt of many jokes here
and have taken quite a few sucker punches as well
and i roll with the majority of it... for the bulk of it is in good fun
and i know that quite a few of you have a very difficult time
with being objective and understanding
so i try to help out where and when i can

we are all here to learn and share and
in the process have a little fun
whether it be sophomoric or biting satire... kind or cruel
we all need to learn to not take ourselves so seriously
it's a wine board for crying out load
most of us are here for the brilliant main meal...CT itself
this here is appetizers and desert... and yes wine
and everything else we consume along with it

...what we have is a typical phenomenon, a tightly woven clique
that you can find at just about any forum that has been around for awhile
and it is common for such cliques to have a
"complete lack of insight into their condition"
so with this peculiar "infection" or dis-ease...
by Fellow Brothers of the Bottle (a flipside of BFF)
i am proud to announce a cure
just don't rush me all at once... appointments only please

and as a reward... for your efforts
i have changed my sig to a more comfortable truth
that everyone should be able to agree with
well... in after thought, maybe not
depends on your perspective

_____________________________

“See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil... just Drink wine” ~ CT mantra

(in reply to jhannah27)

Post #: 6

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 11:24:13 AM

Serge Birbrair

Posts: 1545
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online

J, the problem, the way I see it, we are living in the very complicated world today where EVERYTHING is interconnected.

Who could have thought that Obama, Chenney, Bush and Brad Pitt are...relatives!?????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpwLdgTqlc0

Same applies to the laws, and politics,
one way or another they affect what we drink!

Russian invasion in Georgia,
is this political discussion or Wine Discussion?
I say both!
http://www.wine-pages.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=015408

Hezbollah vs Israel War couple years ago discussion,
was it wine related or Political?
I say BOTH!

Hurricane Katrina and 100 years old wine lost in cellars of the best restaurants,
is this wine or political discussion?
I SAY BOTH!!

Those are topics of discussions which have DIRECT connections between wine and politics,
but if we go
"once removed" or "twice removed" or 9 times removed -
I'll show the connection between Armstrong's landing on the Moon and the 2005 Bordeaux futures
;)

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to jhannah27)

Post #: 7

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 11:31:08 AM

jhannah27

Posts: 523
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Anaheim, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

Those are topics of discussions which have DIRECT connections between wine and politics,
but if we go
"once removed" or "twice removed" or 9 times removed -
I'll show the connection between Armstrong's landing on the Moon and the 2005 Bordeaux futures
;)

Now this, I have to hear!

_____________________________

"Quickly! Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever."
Aristophanes 450 - 385 b.c.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 8

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 11:48:06 AM

NiklasW

Posts: 509
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jhannah27

I agree with your sentiment, Serge, especially that it would be boring and annoying to have to spend time with someone who only speaks about wine. And I also agree that wine can be political. I am all for discussing politics and legal issues as they relate to wine.

Me too, I have no problems with WINE politics, and we have discussed such many a time here.

(in reply to jhannah27)

Post #: 9

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 11:52:47 AM

Serge Birbrair

Posts: 1545
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: jhannah27

quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

Those are topics of discussions which have DIRECT connections between wine and politics,
but if we go
"once removed" or "twice removed" or 9 times removed -
I'll show the connection between Armstrong's landing on the Moon and the 2005 Bordeaux futures
;)

Now this, I have to hear!

Elementary, Watson!
:)
On July 20, 1969, he set foot on the moon and this gave "penis envy" to Russians who considered "Space" their baby, the first man in orbit was Yuri Gagarin, Russian. Russians had to counteract with their space and arms programs and so did we.

Spending tremendous amounts on arms race weakened the dollar, space and other flights polluted atmosphere and polutions from the manufactureres and air planes exasturbated the problem.

The end results were:
1) global warming which caused record quality crop of the century in Bordeaux
2) weakened dollar due to paying too much for oil Russians now produce in abundance -
thanks to technology improvements our space programm and Armstrong in particular have improved.
3) Record prices us Americans paid for 2005 the 1st Growth.

I consider "hard connection to make with wine" the publishing of "Lord of the Ring", but given 2 hours of research I think I can do it
:)

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to jhannah27)

Post #: 10

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 12:02:54 PM

fingers

Posts: 735
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

I have tried to be restrained, to give you the benefit of doubt, to be tolerant, to just see what happens over time...
Craig

I think it has improved. These were the early replies:

" and while were at it (for extra measure/insurance) let's give fingers the coveted "Conversation Police Badge" at the approaching Seattle Pow Wow and for his stellar efforts of keeping us all on puritanical topics... let's all pitch in and get him a blow-up doll and some mary jane"

fingers... I can say this with no doubt...
you have at least one major character flaw
What harm has come to you, to merit such a PMS-like reaction?
I can't image having such a tissy fit over anything...
you've really made a mountain out of an ant hill here.
What are you so scared of?

I hope your happy fingers, you and your sheeple, have successfully silenced a voice of thoughtful reason
you were just too busy being emotional/irrational that you lost your 20/20 vision... i would image your blinders look more like a welder's helmet. So now thanks to your despot self, i'm a one-dimentional guy...

No blow to my intellect, it's just sad that it was so confrontational. The tone has subsided recently and I will admit that his wine-related posts I have found entertaining. Occasionally useful or educational. I don't mind the intertwining theory here and there because his efforts are futile - he's gaining no ground here so he's just wasting his keystrokes. But I still encourage his participation and that leads me to another question about Mr. Agosto: With all the energy you've devoted here, why no activity on the actual CT site. I mean, since you've entered in your 198 bottle collection with 4 consumed, you have not bothered with any Tasting Notes. The heart & soul of CT is the contributions of wine drinkers, not bloggers on the forum. I don't think you're even using the main site.

< Message edited by fingers -- 8/27/2008 1:00:33 PM >

(in reply to cgrimes)

Post #: 11

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 12:04:48 PM

jhannah27

Posts: 523
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Anaheim, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

Elementary, Watson!
:)
On July 20, 1969, he set foot on the moon and this gave "penis envy" to Russians who considered "Space" their baby, the first man in orbit was Yuri Gagarin, Russian. Russians had to counteract with their space and arms programs and so did we.

Spending tremendous amounts on arms race weakened the dollar, space and other flights polluted atmosphere and polutions from the manufactureres and air planes exasturbated the problem.

The end results were:
1) global warming which caused record quality crop of the century in Bordeaux
2) weakened dollar due to paying too much for oil Russians now produce in abundance -
thanks to technology improvements our space programm and Armstrong in particular have improved.
3) Record prices us Americans paid for 2005 the 1st Growth.

I consider "hard connection to make with wine" the publishing of "Lord of the Ring", but given 2 hours of research I think I can do it
:)

Brilliant!

_____________________________

"Quickly! Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever."
Aristophanes 450 - 385 b.c.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 12

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 12:05:14 PM

Blue Shorts

Posts: 314
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

J, the problem, the way I see it, we are living in the very complicated world today where EVERYTHING is interconnected.

Who could have thought that Obama, Chenney, Bush and Brad Pitt are...relatives!?????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpwLdgTqlc0

Same applies to the laws, and politics,
one way or another they affect what we drink!

Russian invasion in Georgia,
is this political discussion or Wine Discussion?
I say both!
http://www.wine-pages.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=015408

Hezbollah vs Israel War couple years ago discussion,
was it wine related or Political?
I say BOTH!

Hurricane Katrina and 100 years old wine lost in cellars of the best restaurants,
is this wine or political discussion?
I SAY BOTH!!

Those are topics of discussions which have DIRECT connections between wine and politics,
but if we go
"once removed" or "twice removed" or 9 times removed -
I'll show the connection between Armstrong's landing on the Moon and the 2005 Bordeaux futures
;)

Serge,

This issue isn't about separating politics from wine discussions. There's not an issue with that.

The issue is that Zipps is beating a dead horse. Talk about obsessive / compulsive. We all know his take on 9/11, building # 7, etc. It's just that he goes on and on ad nauseum. He needs to go to "On and On Anon".

The sad part is that he does have valuable input, but cannot resist bringing up his pet subject in most of his posts. Enough already.

I completely agree with CG and I already have Z on ignore.

< Message edited by Blue Shorts -- 8/27/2008 12:40:44 PM >

_____________________________

The best wine is the one that you haven't yet tried.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 13

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 12:37:06 PM

Serge Birbrair

Posts: 1545
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online

Blue, I know about his problem.....but what can you do!?
He is sick and there is no cure, should we stone him for that!?
I am against euthonesia, especially on the chat boards. Internet Chat board rebels are HARMLESS, I don't know a single soul who changed his mind about anything due to what someone posted on the chat board!

Somebody rambling ad nauseum on the boards is much less dangerous than...
oh, never mind, I don't wanna be sucked into the Vortex of Presidential race discussions.
:)

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to Blue Shorts)

Post #: 14

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 2:21:37 PM

zippz

Posts: 233
Joined: 6/28/2008
From: Chicago IL USA
Status: offline

fingers... i wish it was simple and not so complex...

it is either the accuracy of the tasting notes
or the accuracy of my taste buds
that have me in a conundrum
the notes, reviews and labels
rarely line up with my experience
and to add the wife and i have totally different tastes
so i'm thinking that my tongue is color blind or dyslexic
so i feel like my contribution on taste would throw off the consensus
and based on some of the feedback i have received here
i would be accused of trashing the notes...
and god knows what else
besides adding missing photos of labels and the occassion wine
i try to keep my contributions around the sphere of
what part(s) do wine play in our lives
this i find very interesting to explore
as well as all the parallels and loose associations
with wine that exists in our lives
and yes sometimes these conversations evolve
into totally different subject areas

just for the record...
and correct me if i'm wrong
but i don't recall starting one thread
that was totally NWR

where as i can recall quite a few from others
though i think they are exempt from scrutiny
because the subjects are not heavy
and/or challenging enough to ones
perceived notion of things... status-quo etc
to merit a hit-and-run or "ignore"

quite a few exaggerations and
other similar malicious infantile acts
have been spun my way
like for instance replaying my rant above
talk about adding insult to injury
and then on top of that you publicly piss on my head?
anyone you had treated like that would blown their stack too

as for this supposed 911 obsession i have...
i think it's more of an obsession that others have
with my expose/debunk of the "official story"

which again correct me if i'm wrong...
i only recall posting a couple 911 links
out of... what is it now 224 posts?
you guys make it sound like i'm spamming
heck, i never even embedded one link in my sig on the subject
now if i had an "obsession" ...
wouldn't that be the place to spread the gospel ?
and
across the board add up all the links we have
going to nwr subjects... you think i care about them all
... no ... but they obviously matter to someone
so i check them all out ... and attempt to provide some
worthwhile feedback on those that i think i can
some of you guys didn't bother to check out the links i posted
so you made your derogatory, discrediting comments
based on nothing but your own limit preconceived ideas
as for "bait"
i don't think anyone is fishing here
there are no tricks up my sleeve
but i have noticed a lot of egging on
quite a few of you guys
you know who you are
you know who have this "obsession"
or as craig might put it "infection"
find a way to slip the topic into your posts
with a one or two line jab...
referring to me as the tinfoil-hat/crazy

so in sum,
this non-issue has been way over blown
by a few divas escorting a bandwagon full of
dizzy drama queens... who all sing in chorus
"the sky is falling ... the sky is falling"

_____________________________

“See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil... just Drink wine” ~ CT mantra

(in reply to Blue Shorts)

Post #: 15

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 2:37:21 PM

Serge Birbrair

Posts: 1545
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online

Guys, what is the latest in 9/11 conspiracies?

Have you heard about Zerkonians involvement? Zerkonia is the planet inside earth and diameter of Zerkonia is much bigger than the diameter of Earth.

Zipps, what do your sources say about Zerkonia angle? If they are silent about it, it is because they don't want you to know.
They hide truth from you. There are 3 Zerkonia agents hidden deep inside Gitmo and you heard it here first.

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to zippz)

Post #: 16

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 2:43:27 PM

mjobtx

Posts: 123
Joined: 11/20/2004
From: Plano, TX
Status: offline

_____________________________

PlanoWino

(in reply to zippz)

Post #: 17

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 3:25:31 PM

zippz

Posts: 233
Joined: 6/28/2008
From: Chicago IL USA
Status: offline

Serge ... Congratulations !!!

I am pleased to be the 1st to inform you...
that you are hands down... the Egg King

your tin-foil crown with plastic jewels are in the mail

also with the addition of your new sig
you have officially completed your academic requirements
your double-degree diploma in the
Bullsh!t & A-hole Arts & Sciences, PhD (Piled higher & Deeper)

_____________________________

“See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil... just Drink wine” ~ CT mantra

(in reply to mjobtx)

Post #: 18

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 7:19:24 PM

J2K

Posts: 422
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: offline

Just put him on "ignore". Otherwise you are just fueling the fire.

Weren't we all just singing "Kumbaya" a few days ago??

< Message edited by J2K -- 8/27/2008 7:49:17 PM >

(in reply to zippz)

Post #: 19

RE: For zippz - 8/27/2008 8:56:06 PM

zippz

Posts: 233
Joined: 6/28/2008
From: Chicago IL USA
Status: offline

figuratively or literally speaking
it's not so black and white

there are plenty of options on the table

ignore, egg, flame, censor, avoid, leave, cry,
have intelligent discourse or kumbaya

i'm particularly fond of the later 2

_____________________________

“See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil... just Drink wine” ~ CT mantra

(in reply to J2K)

Post #: 20

RE: For zippz - 8/28/2008 5:23:58 AM

Eric

Posts: 5740
Joined: 10/10/2003
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

Guys, please keep this on wine and keep it respectful. Politics, no matter your views, is for you to find other places to play. Not here. Not interested.

_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

(in reply to zippz)

Post #: 21