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Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/5/2008 10:17:44 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		I consumed a 1993 Reinhold Haart Piesporter Goldtröpfchen Riesling Auslese last night.
A revelation!
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=578720

Maybe I have to revisit my kneejerk dislike of "sweeter" wines?

L.
Post #: 1
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/5/2008 10:30:47 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1560
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online 		if not for money, than for your own gratification.

I fell in love with Riesling as a grape myself, I know where you are heading.

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 2
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/5/2008 11:29:04 AM   
JohnNezlek

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: Gloucester, Virginia
Status: offline 		Colonel,

I am surprised to hear that a man of your experience would categorically (or had categorically) exclude a class of wines. What would/do you do for dessert? Or foie gras?

Cheers,

John



_____________________________

Too many wines, too little time.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 3
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/5/2008 12:18:52 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Ah, that's where mixing with my Antipodean friends has lead me astray.
I probably shouldn't admit this in such august company, but at the end of a meal I prefer the cleansing ale, rather than the d'Yquem .
 
And remember the parable:
“Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them.
Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?
And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home.
Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says,
‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’
I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing ......over one sinner who repents
than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."

L.

(in reply to JohnNezlek)
Post #: 4
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/5/2008 12:20:28 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Have been known to down a good port (or a Remy Martin Napolean).
L.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 5
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/5/2008 1:39:16 PM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 925
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: offline 		Colonel,

A brave admission - it reminds me of a great story from Gordon Ramsay who said that at his Petrus restaurant in London 4 city bankers spent £44,000 on wine in a meal and then rounded it off with 4 pints of Kronenberg.

Having said that, I have introduced the French in laws into oysters with Guinness.   they loved it.  I highly recommend it.

_____________________________

-- Paul

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 6
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/5/2008 5:13:57 PM   
JohnNezlek

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: Gloucester, Virginia
Status: offline 		L,

Let us then rejoice. I look forward to your thoughts about this heretorfore unexplored land. I have found much to enjoy, even in the most common and unlikely of places.

Cordially,

John



_____________________________

Too many wines, too little time.

(in reply to pjaines)
Post #: 7
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/5/2008 7:29:16 PM   
J2K

 

Posts: 427
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: online 		Mosel Saar Ruwer region rocks. Too bad so many people think of Blue Nun when you mention Riesling.

(in reply to JohnNezlek)
Post #: 8
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/5/2008 8:42:11 PM   
Paul S

 

Posts: 504
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: Singapore
Status: offline 		Serge, Colonel, we seem to be treading the same path - I've gone crazy over German Rieslings in the past few months. They have officially replaced white Burg as my favourite white wine. Thank goodness that they are generally cheaper across the quality scale too. Without having had the benefit of trying too many, the producers that I really like so far are:

JJ Prum
Robert Weil
Donnhoff
Dr Loosen

Those which I find decent but not quite mind-blowing (yet):

Fritz Haag
JJ Christofel Urben
Josef Leitz
Schloss Lieser
Gunerloch
Karthauserhof

I've not had the benefit of trying Egon Muller yet, but I here their wines are quite about the top of the range. 

< Message edited by Paul S -- 10/5/2008 8:46:17 PM >

(in reply to J2K)
Post #: 9
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/5/2008 9:06:22 PM   
J2K

 

Posts: 427
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: online 		I have enjoyed --St. Urbans Hof or http://www.urbans-hof.de/en/index_.html

(in reply to Paul S)
Post #: 10
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/5/2008 11:39:20 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		A German Renaissance!

(in reply to Paul S)
Post #: 11
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/6/2008 12:14:50 AM   
Hollowine

 

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Hood River, OR
Status: offline 		I too have been bitten by the Riesling bug the past few years, it is pretty much my go to white after joining the ABC (anything but Chardonnay) club a few years back. I'm enjoying comparing some of the Washington bottlings to the Germans, and several of them are being made as JV projects with German winemakers.

I came an interesting Riesling catalog a few months ago, certainly some heavy reading on the area/vintages if you have the time. I hadn't previously known of Terry Thiese, but it certainly seems he is one of the go to palate's in this varietal.

Is anyone buying Rieslings with the express intent to age them? I'm starting to do that, some for now, some for later.

Also, what if anything do you feel about the Gold Capsule bottlings of Prum, et all? Are they worth the extra cost? So far I've only been buying the normal M-S-R Auslese and Spatlese.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 12
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/6/2008 5:47:11 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence

A German Renaissance!


Col.  I won't say "I told you so"--remember our past discussions about this wonderful grape? I'm just glad you arrived!!

Scott,  I have begun to put some Rieslings away for ageing.  My problem in ageing them is that they have such wonderful purity of fruit and acidity young that they are difficult to keep in the cellar.  Recently I have had some more aged wines which have been sublime and have given me incentive to save them.  I have 2 bottles from 1969 which I will open around the time of my 40th--curious to see what the really old bottles are like.  My confusion in ageing is that most Riesling aficionados will say that after the first few years after vintage, many go into a dumb phase which can last 7-8 year only to re-emerge brilliantly again.  This lends confusion as to when I should open them.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 13
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/6/2008 8:24:35 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 736
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

My confusion in ageing is that most Riesling aficionados will say that after the first few years after vintage, many go into a dumb phase which can last 7-8 year only to re-emerge brilliantly again.  This lends confusion as to when I should open them.



Darnit, Craig,  I hope your wrong.,  First news to me that they could go dumb.  I was under the impression that their evolution would be sort of linear and I've been waiting on all 20XX's for some maturity but I didn't want to wait 10+ years!  Any other German-ophiles know more about this?   With negligible tannins, what is it that makes it shut down?

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 14
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/6/2008 10:05:33 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

Darnit, Craig,  I hope your wrong.,  First news to me that they could go dumb.  I was under the impression that their evolution would be sort of linear and I've been waiting on all 20XX's for some maturity but I didn't want to wait 10+ years!  Any other German-ophiles know more about this?   With negligible tannins, what is it that makes it shut down?


Bob, My understanding is that there is a period where the purity of the fruit had faded but has not yet developed the secondary characteristics so appealing to older Rieslings.  I have little experience with older Rieslings so I cannot affirm this through personal experience.  For all I know I have tasted them during this "dumb" phase and either liked or disliked them for that reason.

See the Longevity Section for a brief explanation:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesling

Personally, I LOVE the petrol thing...

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 15
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/6/2008 10:23:39 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 736
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline 		Thanks, Craig.  I too, look forward to a good petroliated Reisling but I'm not catching this dumb phase of which you speak.  The wiki just seems to point out acquiring the oil over time and I didn't see reference to the fruit losing purity for any period of time.  Do you know any more of this?  Either categorically or anecdotally? 

the learning never ends.......

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 16
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/6/2008 10:43:09 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

Thanks, Craig.  I too, look forward to a good petroliated Reisling but I'm not catching this dumb phase of which you speak.  The wiki just seems to point out acquiring the oil over time and I didn't see reference to the fruit losing purity for any period of time.  Do you know any more of this?  Either categorically or anecdotally? 

the learning never ends.......


I read it in one of my wine books at home.  Will check details tonight.  I do know it is a well-known phenomenon.

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 17
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/6/2008 12:53:51 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		I will take it upon myself to open the remaining Auslese I have (a 1983) and report back.
I was somewhat taken aback to realise that the great bottle I had was a paltry 8.5% alcohol.
You can enjoy the wine and not fall over at the end of the evening!
L.

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 18
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/6/2008 8:58:02 PM   
Paul S

 

Posts: 504
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: Singapore
Status: offline 		Ah... yes, one of the many wonders of good German Riesling.

But guys.. quiet it down ok? We don't want to whole world buying into this not very well kept secret and prices skyrocketing to Bordeaux ridiculousness

On the dumb phase - when along the wine's lifespan is that supposed happen, and does it differ for different Pradikat levels? I just popped a couple of top-end 2002 Robert Weils Spatlesen in quick succession. One was sublime still, and very fresh. But that bottle was markedly better than the other. Can't be moving into a dumb phase in a period of a couple of months though - probably bottle variation more than anything. In any case, my notes are here if any of you are interested: http://www.cellartracker.com./wine.asp?iWine=5212

< Message edited by Paul S -- 10/7/2008 7:41:08 AM >

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 19
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/7/2008 1:58:17 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 768
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Opened my last bottle of 1998 Spatlese I had been keeping yesterday (the wife wanted a glass of wine - and prefers something with a touch of sweetness).  It was impressive and certainly an improvement on the bottles I had 3 years before.

http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=93372

This was a bit of one-off purchase with the aim of keeping some for as long as possible to see what developed.  I'll be heading back to pick up some more current vintages, especially as my wife is starting to drink a little.  I've also done the same with a few Australian Rieslings, especially a Grosset Polish Hill which I can't 'get'.

http://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?O=Vintage&Varietal=Riesling&Country=Australia&Table=List&iUserOverride=8257&fInStock=1

There is a great article on Australian Riesling in the current issue of the magazine Eric recommended, The World of Fine Wine and two articles, one on Australian and one on German Riesling, in November's Decanter.  It seems to be a pro-Riesling phase again for the writers and critics.

Wrighty

(in reply to Paul S)
Post #: 20
RE: Germany I was wrong - an apology - 10/7/2008 9:57:36 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		I'm still working on that info on "dumb phases" in Rieslings. 
Craig

(in reply to Wrighty)
Post #: 21
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