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How OAK intollerant are you?

 
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[Poll]

How OAK intollerant are you?
Oak, shmoak, it's all good
  37% (10)
Oak is fine, as long as the oak is not toasted
  51% (14)
Oak is good for beavers only.
  11% (3)


Total Votes : 27
(last vote on : 6/17/2008 7:45:34 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 5:28:05 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1550
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online 		Everybody have their preferences for oak, what's yours?

_____________________________

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Post #: 1
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 8:11:32 AM   
Schu

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Gaithersburg, MD
Status: offline 		I'm not a huge oak fan.  Definitely no chardonnay drinking over here, but a little oak in a cabernet brings out that nice vanilla essence.  I'm more into balance and integration.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 2
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 11:16:22 AM   
pbm

 

Posts: 348
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: New Hope, Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I like it more in the grill than in my wine but as long as it's in moderation (in both uses) it's fine with me.

_____________________________

PBM
"Never Sell Principle Short"
Dave O'Neal

(in reply to Schu)
Post #: 3
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 11:42:31 AM   
RoundersRob

 

Posts: 743
Joined: 7/1/2006
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Status: online 		I know that Serge loves to chew on beavers, errr  I mean oak..  ummm nevermind.

(in reply to pbm)
Post #: 4
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 12:44:04 PM   
Blue Shorts

 

Posts: 314
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz, California
Status: offline 		I voted for the "Oak, shmoak.." catagory.  It's all about the total package.

_____________________________

The best wine is the one that you haven't yet tried.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 5
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 1:03:17 PM   
mbannon

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Another "Oak, smoak" vote here.  Everything has its time and place.

(in reply to Blue Shorts)
Post #: 6
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 1:05:32 PM   
mbannon

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Schu

I'm not a huge oak fan.  Definitely no chardonnay drinking over here,

You mean no CALIFORNIA Chardonnay, right?  'Cuz you won't find much oak in Chablis.

(in reply to Schu)
Post #: 7
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 1:06:13 PM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1550
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: RoundersRob

I know that Serge loves to chew on beavers, errr  I mean oak..  ummm nevermind.


Rob, my answer to your pun is here:
http://www.cellartracker.com/forum/FR%3A_Better_than_sex/m_22403/tm.htm

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to RoundersRob)
Post #: 8
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 1:58:22 PM   
esb

 

Posts: 125
Joined: 1/17/2008
From: Bend, Oregon
Status: offline 		What is the intense fake vanilla? I don't want to single anyone out, but inexpensive Washington and some Napa wines come to mind. I'm sure it's in other wine as well. I think I know what a barrel matured wine tastes like and this is something very different. It reminds me of some contrived, lab created vanilla soda.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 9
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 2:35:29 PM   
mbannon

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: esb

What is the intense fake vanilla? I don't want to single anyone out, but inexpensive Washington and some Napa wines come to mind. I'm sure it's in other wine as well. I think I know what a barrel matured wine tastes like and this is something very different. It reminds me of some contrived, lab created vanilla soda.

My guess?  Liquid oak extract or oak sawdust/chips.  But I didn't say that out loud.

(in reply to esb)
Post #: 10
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 3:09:06 PM   
J2K

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I thought "wood" was for "beavers"!!!

(in reply to mbannon)
Post #: 11
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 4:59:40 PM   
fingers

 

Posts: 736
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: online 		You know, Serge, us CTnophiles already made that connection!

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 12
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 5:16:24 PM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1550
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

You know, Serge, us CTnophiles already made that connection!


CTnophiles...I LIKE that!

Yeah! That's who we are! The drinkers without "guru" and followers of the wisdom of the common man!

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 13
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 6:42:40 PM   
GalvezGuy

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline 		Oak can be OK, as long as it is part of the package.  I have had a lot of overoaked Chards in my day.   Sometimes it really works well, especially in Spain.

_____________________________

If you're gonna be dumb you better be tough

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 14
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 6:48:10 PM   
bschwindtcoffee

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		For me its all about balance.  I am not a fan of over-oaked cali chards, but I think that all steel cask oaks taste wierd.   I guess less is better than more. 

b

(in reply to GalvezGuy)
Post #: 15
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 6:52:18 PM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1550
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online 		Steel tastes weird?

I don't think you will find too many whites where oak is udes. I don';t know ANY producer using oak for..Riesling, for example!

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to bschwindtcoffee)
Post #: 16
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 7:06:20 PM   
bschwindtcoffee

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Just that chard w no oak tastes strange to me.  Weird by omisson I guess.. 
b

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 17
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 7:25:26 PM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1550
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online 		If you are in "ship to" state, I'd like to send you the bottle of unoaked Chard (white Burgundy)
http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=428600
if you can't get it in your area so we could compare notes!


No aok and the wine is just marvelous! Under $22 a bottle.

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to bschwindtcoffee)
Post #: 18
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 8:13:09 PM   
bschwindtcoffee

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I'll ask my wine guy here in Portland.   I'll post here..

sounds interesting.

b

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 19
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 8:27:14 PM   
J2K

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Are most white burgundies un-oaked??

(in reply to bschwindtcoffee)
Post #: 20
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 8:27:58 PM   
J2K

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Tie a yellow ribbon round the...........................

(in reply to J2K)
Post #: 21
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 8:31:31 PM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: J2K

Are most white burgundies un-oaked??


No, most are oaked except for Chablis which are largely unoaked (except for many of the Grands Crus just to make it confusing).
Craig

(in reply to J2K)
Post #: 22
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 8:48:53 PM   
ParkHill

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 6/27/2007
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		It depends.

I'm not a fan of the jammy, oaky, too-sweet Cabs. But, the jammy, oaky, sweet Riojas are just amazing.

I don't particularly like the oaky Barolos, as it seems to make them monolithic. The tannic backbone seems to be important to keep the wines layered and distinctive. So, Sandrone although is really sweet and pure, I don't find it as interesting as a more traditional producer like Monprivato (G Mascarello). On the other hand, I'm truly enjoying a 2001 Poderi Elia Barbarello at this very moment, which is both layered and lush with sweet vanilla everywhere.

After I complained one too many times about the jammy Cabs, someone suggested that I wait to see what they are like in 10 or 15 years. I can believe that explanation, even if I can't validate it for a while...

< Message edited by ParkHill -- 6/10/2008 8:52:32 PM >

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 23
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/10/2008 10:42:19 PM   
mbannon

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

quote:

ORIGINAL: J2K

Are most white burgundies un-oaked??


No, most are oaked except for Chablis which are largely unoaked (except for many of the Grands Crus just to make it confusing).
Craig

And yet, in Burgundy they seem to have found a MUCH better balance between the oak and the fruit than they have in CA or Australia.  Even to the point that I often am not sure if a particular white Burg has seen oak or not.

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 24
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/11/2008 12:07:29 AM   
Paul S

 

Posts: 504
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: Singapore
Status: offline 		Oak really is a rather tough issue isn't? I guess it depends on what wine, how much oak, what type of oak and the degree of toast on the oak. For example, a Grand Cru Burg probably can take up to 100% new Alliers or Troncais oak with a medium toast, but that would completely drown out a Village. So hard to say. I think it all comes down to how well the oak is chosen to wed to the wine. When it is well done, it can really enhance. If badly done, then the wine suffers.

(in reply to mbannon)
Post #: 25
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/11/2008 12:15:43 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

quote:

ORIGINAL: J2K

Are most white burgundies un-oaked??


No, most are oaked except for Chablis which are largely unoaked (except for many of the Grands Crus just to make it confusing).
Craig


I too thought Chablis avoided oak, but after seeing your note I had a look and you're spot on -
http://www.bernard-defaix.com/gb/vinsgb.html -
even a few non-Grand Cru are dabbling with oak, I guess it gives them a point of difference, just like 'unoaked' elsewhere.
L.

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 26
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/11/2008 9:26:09 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		The use of oak in Chablis is completely dependent on the producer and you'll (almost) never get the answer on the bottle.  You simply have to do your research.  That's the French way...

I agree with mbannon about Burgundians having more judicious use of oak (which is why I am such a fan of white burgs) but oak is still an integral part of these wines.  That said, how many of you have mixed up a Meursault from a hot year (like 2003) with a CA chard? I certainly have and wasn't pleased.  I find Meursault to be the heaviest and most oaky of the subregions--at least among the wines I have tasted so far. 
Craig

< Message edited by cgrimes -- 6/11/2008 9:32:11 AM >

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 27
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/11/2008 11:26:38 AM   
mbannon

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

I find Meursault to be the heaviest and most oaky of the subregions--at least among the wines I have tasted so far. 
Craig

Definitely.  It's the only Burg region that I frequently get a "burnt" aroma, presumably from the use of toasted oak?  I love Meursault wines, though.  Beauties.

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 28
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/12/2008 12:33:41 AM   
Paul S

 

Posts: 504
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: Singapore
Status: offline 		Well, Meursault has always been the richest and most buttery of the villages. I think it has something to do with the terroir as a whole rather than just the use of oak, but I may be wrong. Maybe someone can enlighten us.

(in reply to mbannon)
Post #: 29
RE: How OAK intollerant are you? - 6/12/2008 12:35:42 PM   
jhannah27

 

Posts: 523
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Anaheim, CA
Status: offline 		To throw my two cents in...I have always been baffled as to why, when chardonnay is unoaked, it is designated "unoaked."  To me, this is the purest expression of the fruit.  Clean, unmanipulated.  Even though the oak influenced chard is more of the standard these days, the "unoaked" designation seems backwards to me.  In my mind, "oaked" chardonnay should be designated as such, and unoaked should be simply "chardonnay."

But that's just me...

< Message edited by jhannah27 -- 6/12/2008 12:39:19 PM >

(in reply to Paul S)
Post #: 30
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