How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that particular wine?

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How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that partic... - 7/2/2008 2:25:07 PM

Serge Birbrair

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online

Parker? Jancis? Wine Board members? Store owner/salesperson? WS? WE? Decanter?

I am curious about the mechanics and thought process of taking money out and taking wine in.

Don't be shy, this is "don't pass judgements" thread.

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Post #: 1

RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 2:28:45 PM

JohnNezlek

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From: Gloucester, Virginia
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Serge,

This is a topic that is of considerable interet to me as a research psychologist. If you care to, please reply to my email address: jbnezl@wm.edu

John

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 2

RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 3:43:58 PM

Blue Shorts

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Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz, California
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My buying used to be driven by Parker and Tanzer (sp?).

Now, most of my buying is driven by CT. Interest in particular wines can come from multiple places, but I always consult CT before buying. My buying decision is usually decided by CT and certain CT users.

Of course, nothing beats tasting first, but who has the time?

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The best wine is the one that you haven't yet tried.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 3

RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 4:02:13 PM

smahk

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From: Long Island, NY
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I love to buy over the internet - and hence get a lot of offers emailed to me. Before buying, I check cellar tracker, then WS and WA - but tend to allow CT to over ride most other advice.

I also like to buy repeat wine - wines that I ordered in restaurants and really enjoyed that I'd like to add to my cellar - since I've tried it - no need to care what CT, WS or WA thought - and I usually add my own TN to share with the CT community and to keep track of what I enjoy.

And finally, there must be 30 liquor stores within 20 minutes of my home (In NY we can only buy wine in a liquor store) and there is just ONE proprietor that I trust enough to take his word on a wine WITHOUT checking cellar tracker. I've gotten burned too many times with recommendations (and maybe hidden agendas) to go on faith alone.

(in reply to Blue Shorts)

Post #: 4

RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 4:25:29 PM

mjobtx

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From: Plano, TX
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I have been collecting quite a while so many of my preferences are hard wired. As for new wines, the introduction is what is most important to me. Offlines play a major role in introducing me to wines I have not tried before and I am most likely to purchase something that really stood out for me at an offline. Also, recommendations from people with whom I share a similar palate play an important role. I rarely buy something just because it is hyped. When I am buying older vintages of known wines that I haven't tasted, I always check the CT tasting notes.

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(in reply to smahk)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 5:20:28 PM

gbm

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From: Connecticut
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Interesting topic. I am influenced by region and varietal with CT notes and scores (for some reason I hold WE & WS in higher regard than others), but given a line of bottles to choose from, I always (TNs and scores be damned) want to buy the one with the most visually appealing labels. I don't always buy that one, but it will be on the short list. I am a sucker for advertising and if you put a chateau on the bottle I will have one hell of a time picking something else!

(in reply to mjobtx)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 5:27:21 PM

Paul S

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Joined: 1/15/2008
From: Singapore
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Several factors, all interlinked.

1. Price is probably the greatest factor, given that Singapore is very expensive for wine drinkers. I wait until the few retailers / importers that I have a good relationship with bring in certain wines and have sales or discounts, or for auctions etc and then I will calculate the figures to see if the price is reasonable. Then the other factors come into play.
2. I generally like to taste the wines I am buying. If I had something before that I really like, chances are that I will hunt down that wine and buy it.
3. If I have not tasted it before, ratings - CT first by far, followed by professionals - JR, WS, Decanter, Paker probably bringing up the rear.
4. Recommendations from other people that I trust (including tasting notes on CT).
5. Balance in my cellar. I am more a drinker than a collector, so I look for balance in my cellar with enough of each varietal / country / region to pair with anything that comes around, or to match a themed tasting in case someone organises one. And also enough of each to drink now, next year, the year after - to about 7, 8 years later.
6. Education - some wines I buy just to educate myself, i.e. try new things.

< Message edited by Paul S -- 7/2/2008 5:28:32 PM >

(in reply to mjobtx)

Post #: 7

RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 5:57:02 PM

vinopkm

Posts: 106
Joined: 6/14/2008
From: Orange County, CA
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I used to use WS/WE as my guide- but I have been using CT a lot more. Every non-impluse buy is checked against CT- I trust the masses over a select few. I also buy by regions I know and what my small cellar is lacking, also what is the buy of the week at the various wine shops. I'm slowing learning where to buy certain wines, luckily I feel that I have a couple different good wine stores to shop from locally- with a wide range of different priced wines. If it is a region I'm not familiar with I will ask the wine shops help and then cross check with WS/WE/CT and the wineries website for tasting notes. I have also found some good wine through Rest.'s by the glass list- good value wines. To me the OC Rest. scene lacks good sommeliers (maybe a hand full (5-6) of Rest have a good sommelier), and a lot of the time the wait staff just recites what they were told to say. I almost always bring my own wine now as well- as long as the corkage fee is in line- $20 or less, or buy 1 bottle and then they waive corkage.

Let there be Free Corkage!!!

(in reply to Paul S)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 6:20:19 PM

cgrimes

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From: Massachusetts
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For Burgundies my influences are:
1. Staff at shop which specializes in Burgs
2. Allen Meadows--Burghound
3. Cellar Tracker Users/ Notes

For Bordeaux:
1. Cellar Tracker Users/Notes
2. Parker

Cali Cab:
1. Cellar Tracker Users
2. Cellar Tracker Users
3. Cellar Tracker Users

Oregon:
1. Actual tasting and experimenting
2. Cellar Tracker Users

I've pretty much dropped WS as an influence other than the annual Values Issue, though I do like to read it for fun.

< Message edited by cgrimes -- 7/2/2008 6:21:51 PM >

(in reply to vinopkm)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 6:34:46 PM

deb293

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Combination of WS/ST/CT for ratings, but what actually makes me buy the wine is a combination of factors. If there is an area/region or style that is missing from my collection (i.e. white Hermitage) I am more likely to pursue that wine to simply try to experience it.

If I have travelled to a particular wine region (Germany, Barolo, etc.) I may favor a particular producer based on tasting events (hence my passion for Robert Weil, based on going to the German Wine Academy.)

Going to tastings may also influence pursuing a particular wine (Coutet Cuvee Madame wowed me at a tasting, but WS was lukewarm. Who cares?)

Unfortunately, tastings and travel are expensive. As I said to one wine clerk, "If you'd just put a little siphon in the side of the bottle so I could taste beforehad, I wouldn't need to rely on Wine Spectator!" Wine store staff can be notoriously unreliable, as they have an agenda to sell wine. I have been misled often enough to be wary...

Lastly (but not leastly) is QPR. Some stuff is just out of my range; other stuff just not worth it!

< Message edited by deb293 -- 7/2/2008 7:23:35 PM >

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 10

RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 7:06:47 PM

mrener

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Mind and taste have fases. One year I am crazy about California Cabs, other South Africa Blends, another Shiraz, etc. So taste process depends on what I am looking for at the moment.
Passed the "what I am drinking now", I just don't buy wine without checking CT. Especially after the "tasters i like" function. This allows me to spot the tasters that kind are like me and go for it.
After that I look for WS and WA ratings, especially if it is a wine I am buying for aging/investment.

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The best use of bad wine is to drive away bad relations. Don't just drink it... ENJOY IT!

Abraco,
Marcio Rener Souza

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 8:42:22 PM

Paul S

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What an interesting thread - good one Serge.

(in reply to mrener)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/2/2008 11:11:22 PM

Serge Birbrair

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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When I get mailers and in the mood for older vintages, CT is my only source.

When I was "wet behind the ears" wine drinker, quite often the store owners were my guides and some of them did quite remarkable job. 'til this day I call David Lillie at part owner of Chambers Street Wines and ask him what will I like? I doubt there is a wine store owner in the country who knows more about Muscadet and biodynamic wines more than David.

When I have to ask about Italian wines, my #1 source is Danish Italian wines importer Birger*,
he posts on various wine boards and I met him several times in Denmark.

* pronounced Bewe-ah

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(in reply to Paul S)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 12:24:38 AM

Birger Vejrum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

When I get mailers and in the mood for older vintages, CT is my only source.

When I have to ask about Italian wines, my #1 source is Danish Italian wines importer Birger*,
he posts on various wine boards and I met him several times in Denmark.

* pronounced Bewe-ah

Thanks Serge, you are welcome anytime

Did you know my name means "to help, to save, to protect".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birger

Ciao
Birger

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 14

RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 5:23:10 AM

Wrighty

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From: Hong Kong
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When starting out, pretty much WS, even back then found I didn't match too well with RP, more James Suckling. Find WS a bit hit and miss on Australia (RP more so) so prefer Jeremy Oliver (James Halliday seems generous with points). I subscribe to Decanter but it's impossible to 'match' palates as they use different tasters for each tasting and it's done by committee. Accept this has its merits but difficult to judge whether your own tastes will follow the week's panel.

Must admit now [I've got more knowledge/confidence/experienc] prefer to taste a wine myself so try to get to more tastings and try as many as possible. This tends to throw up a good half dozen to a dozen wines each year which along with the perrenials gives me a good selection of drinkers and keepers. Then every now and then dip the toe in somewhere new, normally on impulse, and especially if it's Burgundy get disappointed.

Wrighty

(in reply to Birger Vejrum)

Post #: 15

RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 5:43:33 AM

J2K

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From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
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Periodically, I'll buy a wine because I like the label (cmon, I know I'm not the only one).
JohnN, you can break down some psychology on that.
Like this one.

(in reply to Wrighty)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 6:43:59 AM

nwinther

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From: Denmark
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Very complicated question Serge.

I tend to buy what I like to call Valu for money. That means I buy wines below 25 USD that tastes great - not 100 pointers (obviously). I really go for wine I can drink now or keep for a few years. Then SOMETIMES I buy something that really counts, primarily GGC bordeaux or special cuvées from primarily the Rhone. Wines that I want to lay down and see them increase in value and then drink in 20 years time.

Sometimes I listen to Parker, CT or Spectator. Other times I follow my gut or experience. But I never buy solely based on reviews. It has to be wine that by definition "speaks" to me, something I want to try either out of curiosity or because of a recommendation.

I tend to steer clear of "brands", such as Gallo, Hardy's etc. no matter how "special" their blend is. (Penfolds is going that way too IMM). It has to be something "special" - something you can't buy at any supermarket.

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 8:20:07 AM

rbazinet

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From: Toronto, Ontario
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Interesting discussion.
I do a lot of things.

Bgibbard takes the time to tag all our new releases. I play around with this for quite a while. Sorting by price, CT scores etc … http://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?table=Tag&iUserOverride=1273&List=2008+Jul+05+Vintages and posts them in this forum http://www.cellartracker.com/forum/LCBO_Vintages_Releases/m_20469/tm.htm
This is very helpful and fun.

I highly value input from a few friends. On that note, if certain friends recommend something … I avoid it.

I have a few “guys” in the stores, whom I ask and trust. Whenever I talk to a new sales person, I suggest I am interested in buying a bottle of wine that, in my opinion, is terrible (without telling them). If they push it on me … I don’t listen to another word they say.

After these it is a real hodgepodge. Tastings, impulse buying, Parker and CT Scores (especially for futures) and simply trying new things.

In the background for all of these I factor in price and my general preferences.
It will be interesting to see how my stragegy changes over the years.

(in reply to nwinther)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 8:53:24 AM

rjonas

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From: Newcastle, WA
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Several different ways..

I tend to be a loyal wine buyer when I find a producer that I really like. I have about a dozen producers that I buy every year, unless they have a particularly bad year, which isn't often..

I also have some very savvy wine friends who have similar palettes to my own and also know my palette, so they send recommendations often...

There are also a number of internet stores where I purchase wine and where I receive almost daily updates/specials, etc...

Lastly, there are the publications, although like many previous posters, I am relying more and more heavily on CT users as, in my mind, they represent the "average drinker" and not necessarily professional tasters..

Great topic, Serge!

P.S. to J2K - I will also admit that occasionally a label will strike me and I'll purchase the wine to try solely based on the label... Usually I'm not disappointed.

(in reply to rbazinet)

Post #: 19

RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 10:17:02 AM

Serge Birbrair

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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I just got back from the wine store. New owner, the one I've been to for 5 years is now gone, here is how it went with new owner:

Do you have Southern Eclipce SB, I tried it yesterday with friend? ($12.99)

-Yes, plenty

What else should I try? Preferrably something out of the beaten path?

-Have your tried Blanco Nieva Verdejo? ($12.99)

No, let's try one bottle, I'm adding it to my basket.
Is this Dessilani Spanna is Nothern Piemonte Nebbiolo? ($16.99)

-Yes, it is.

Oh, well, I'll take a bottle too. F. Magnien 2006 Vosne Romanee, how is it? Do you have CT notes on it?

We found no notes, but I am familiar with producer, so I snucked a bottle.

No Parkers, no points or any other dirty words were mentioned during the entire conversation and purchases.
:)

After we exchanged TN's on New Zealand SV and both agreed on strong "cat piss", and the guy mentioned that
Blanco Nieva Verdejo has similar nose, I took couple more bottles off the shelf.
Seems like I'll have good relations with the new owner too.

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Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to rjonas)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 10:49:55 AM

cgrimes

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From: Massachusetts
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

No Parkers, no points or any other dirty words were mentioned during the entire conversation and purchases...Seems like I'll have good relations with the new owner too.
:)

quote:

That's because he has read about you in forums and on MSNBC and he is afraid of you. There is also likely a note under the register left from the old owner that states, simply "Don't piss Serge off!"

Does he have a choice?

< Message edited by cgrimes -- 7/3/2008 10:52:59 AM >

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 11:04:22 AM

Serge Birbrair

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: online

CG, will few bottles of 1986 Pichon Lalande shut you up?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=e2UikBa20rk

< Message edited by Serge Birbrair -- 7/3/2008 11:06:15 AM >

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Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to cgrimes)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 11:18:35 AM

cgrimes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

CG, will few bottles of 1986 Pichon Lalande shut you up?

Yes

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 11:30:15 AM

mocamro

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From: California
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I taste a lot of what I buy, but if I can't, I go for price/region considerations...whatever I can afford from whatever place (or variety) I happen to want to try or am interested in

(in reply to cgrimes)

Post #: 24

RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 11:39:29 AM

Serge Birbrair

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

CG, will few bottles of 1986 Pichon Lalande shut you up?

Yes

Very good,
I left it for you with my friend,
the "Interior Decorator

Come and get it!

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to cgrimes)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 12:05:53 PM

cgrimes

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From: Massachusetts
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

Come and get it!

I would but I'm having a little trouble breathing right now. Guess it's lights out...

Thanks for the classic scenes!

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 26

RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 1:02:41 PM

mjobtx

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From: Plano, TX
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It woud be a big assumption on my part to believe that my mind is involved in the process at all. I think it is all from the heart.

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(in reply to cgrimes)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 1:53:22 PM

GalvezGuy

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From: Galveston, TX
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I buy with a combination of heart and head. There are some wines that I buy on recommendation from trusted sources like Max at Wine Connection. Others, I do my homework, I look for notes in CT about wines that have been in circulation for a while... In the end, I almost always wind up with a something that makes ME happy, at that is what it really is about. I still get the occasional wine club dog, but that is more about trying something new than planning the purchase.

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(in reply to mjobtx)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/3/2008 10:12:30 PM

esb

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From: Bend, Oregon
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Always pursuing new things. But within what works for me, I taste a wine and if it's good I buy it. Not real difficult - taste - reject or buy, but always taste. Only use the experts for tasting guidance. Too old to use other palates for purchasing decisions.

(in reply to GalvezGuy)

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RE: How does your mind work? WHAT makes you buy that pa... - 7/4/2008 6:45:38 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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Interestingly varied replies; my method is yet another variation on a theme.

I start with the basic premise that I'd like to drink some of the best wines in the world as inexpensively as possible (ideally free).
I therefore choose to buy wines that I anticipate will at least double in value, in a five year time frame.
I buy twice as much wine as I need to drink and plan to sell the other half (I generally buy at least 2 cases of each wine)
Initially the obvious wines to buy were red Bordeaux classed growths:
i) I liked them
ii) they had a track record of appreciating in value
iii) they were readily buyable and sellable
iv) chosen properly they age extremely well

The choice about which specific wine is more complex.
The first helpful indication is that the better known, most in demand wines, particularly the 1st's growths and super-seconds, increase in value fastest.
Wines Parker likes (i.e. rates highly) do well; more trickily the wines he upgrades do really well!
The scarcer the wine the better.
Chateaux with good and improving performance appreciate well.
The best vintages appreciate best, long term.

There are a number of unknowns which will impact future prices, one particularly important one is the quality of future vintages.
Recently important has been the desire of producers to maximise their short term profit en primeur, at the expense of dealers and buyers.

You must store your investment half in perfect conditions, sensibly the half you drink might as well be there as well.

Finally it is critical to buy at the best possible price; being a commodity, wines best price, assuming it has perfect provenance, is the lowest price. With one critical proviso - the dealer you buy from mustn't go bankrupt before you receieve your wine (it happens, rather too often!). Wine-Searcher.com is an indespensible pricing tool when choosing who to buy from.
By the way, outside en premeur, dealers will bargain, so a good strategy is to find the worlds best price and try and extract it from your favoured dealers.

I know this will not be for everyone, but maybe for a few others?

I also buy wine for very immediate drinking, using different criteria.
I buy this based on many of the criteria already mentioned by others - recommendations, internet, CT, dealers, ets. - but additionally I buy to educate myself as to which wines (outside Bordeaux) I like.
This last fact is becoming increasingly important as Bordeaux classed reds are expensive, potentially harming their appreciation potential. Also I expect the worlds consumers over the 10-20 year period to become more educated (like todays CT users), and to buy a wider selection of the worlds wines, all over the world.
This should see great wines appreciating from New World and other Old World countries.

In my global search I am concentrating on only the very best wines (much more narrowly than in Bordeaux).
I like wines made by famous joint ventures (they have both wine making and marketing skills which are both critical).
I also particularly like Bordeaux beaters (blind taste test only).

A bit long winded, but it works for me.

L.

PS Hit lucky buying the 2000 Bordeaux vintage extensively, so be lucky as well.

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First they came for ....................

(in reply to esb)

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