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Identifying fake wine - without destroying the bottle - 11/28/2008 12:48:42 PM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 925
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: offline 		Good news if you have a bottle of 1900 Margaux you are not sure is genuine...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7755014.stm

_____________________________

-- Paul
Post #: 1
RE: Identifying fake wine - without destroying the bottle - 11/28/2008 7:19:55 PM   
Uncle Noon

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 5/30/2008
Status: offline 		Man, what a cool thing.  I'm impressed.  I wonder when it (the authenticating service) will be offered to the public and how much will they charge.  It might even get to the point that you buy certified wine like a certified coin.

(in reply to pjaines)
Post #: 2
RE: Identifying fake wine - without destroying the bottle - 11/29/2008 4:45:38 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Gamma Rays and Electron Beams are also used to sterilise things.
Hope that doesn't happen in this case -
Pasturised, Homogenised and Sterilised Margaux 1900 doesn't sound much fun.
Sure they will claim no change to the wine, but they would .....................
L.

(in reply to pjaines)
Post #: 3
RE: Identifying fake wine - without destroying the bottle - 11/29/2008 8:18:24 AM   
Pavie Princess

 

Posts: 263
Joined: 5/19/2008
From: The Big Easy, New Orleans
Status: offline 		we have a 1945 Cheval that we were very concerned about.............we sent a bottle to be tested.............the gamma rays that are used are not bombared into the wine.  They use a gamma camera to check the radiation levels in the wine.  Therefore the wine is undamaged. Its like a geiger counter for the wine.  The further west you go in europe the higher the radiation levels are.  We got rid of cases of tokaj from the 50's and many other italian and loire valley wines because of the levels found.  We also have gotten rid of alot 86-88 wines as well based upon what we learned.  My hubby was more concerned that the wine actually had any radiation in it for safety concerns....................it is amazing how much radiation is certain wines.  What we found with our wines were the further west they were grown and the more sugar they had the more radiation was in it.  Many of those wines we have gotten rid of gladly.  We dont want the risk of drinking it and the market is quite happy to pay us a good some for those wines. 

< Message edited by Pavie Princess -- 11/29/2008 8:25:07 AM >

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 4
RE: Identifying fake wine - without destroying the bottle - 11/29/2008 8:29:22 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 736
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pavie Princess

What we found with our wines were the further west they were grown and the more sugar they had the more radiation was in it.  Many of those wines we have gotten rid of gladly.  We dont want the risk of drinking it and the market is quite happy to pay us a good some for those wines. 


How far "west"?  Are you only talking France, Europe, or the globe?

(in reply to Pavie Princess)
Post #: 5
RE: Identifying fake wine - without destroying the bottle - 11/29/2008 2:01:59 PM   
Pavie Princess

 

Posts: 263
Joined: 5/19/2008
From: The Big Easy, New Orleans
Status: offline 		europe..............Hungary's wines from 45-62 are off the charts filled with radioactivity.  The radioactivity foot print of even the furthest eastward wines in France is quite elevated due to the wind currents present in the 1944-1960 time frame.............it is amazing.  Highest concentration seen in Hungary and lowest in Portugal.  THere is even a dispersion north to south but not as pronounced as east to west.

< Message edited by Pavie Princess -- 11/29/2008 2:05:34 PM >

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 6
RE: Identifying fake wine - without destroying the bottle - 11/30/2008 3:38:18 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		My recollection of the USA is that many basements (cellars?) have high Radon levels.
Does this concern anyone?
Presumably Europe post-Chenobyl would have higher radition level (in the direction of the winds)?
L.

(in reply to Pavie Princess)
Post #: 7
RE: Identifying fake wine - without destroying the bottle - 11/30/2008 4:29:27 AM   
annerk

 

Posts: 255
Joined: 10/16/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: online 		CL,

Yes, many US basements have high radon levels, although there are ways to effectively remediate radon.  You have to know it's there before you can get rid of it, which is why it's now suggested that homeowners with basements test for it, even in areas where it's not prevalent.

It's my understanding that the radiation from Chernobyl had a global effect and elevated levels are still found downwind tens of thousands of miles away that are directly attributed to it.  I would have no problem believing that grapes grown in Europe and the resulting wine vintages still have elevated levels of radioactivity because of the radiation that would have settled into the terroir and gotten into the groundwater.  I know that some land in the UK is still deemed as unfit to farm as a result, and they were much further away than anything in Germany and some appellations in France.

Hmmm, after writing this I think I'm quite happy to be partial to Napa wines. 

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 8
RE: Identifying fake wine - without destroying the bottle - 11/30/2008 5:15:05 PM   
gbm

 

Posts: 229
Joined: 3/12/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		There is radon in many US basements (and probably many other places around the world).  It all depends on the amount of uranium deep in the earth beneath your house.  Uranium decays into Radium (among other things) which then decays into Radon which percolates up through the ground and into the air and water.  Well water can actually have large amounts of radon.

Anyway, Pavie, if you have any of those reports handy - and they are scannable - I would love to see them.  I am curious to know what type of scale they are using.  I have included a link below to the original paper.  Page 2 of the pdf shows a graph of Cs-137 levels in Bordeaux wine pver time.  There was a spike after Chernobyl, but levels are now minimal and have been the early 1990s.  I would stay away from late 80's vintages though.  Also, the first page provides some interesting information about radioactive potassium in wine.

http://www.cenbg.in2p3.fr/heberge/DDV/Wine_dating2.pdf

(in reply to annerk)
Post #: 9
RE: Identifying fake wine - without destroying the bottle - 11/30/2008 5:19:31 PM   
RoundersRob

 

Posts: 744
Joined: 7/1/2006
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pavie Princess

we have a 1945 Cheval that we were very concerned about.............we sent a bottle to be tested.............the gamma rays that are used are not bombared into the wine.  They use a gamma camera to check the radiation levels in the wine.  Therefore the wine is undamaged. Its like a geiger counter for the wine.  The further west you go in europe the higher the radiation levels are.  We got rid of cases of tokaj from the 50's and many other italian and loire valley wines because of the levels found.  We also have gotten rid of alot 86-88 wines as well based upon what we learned.  My hubby was more concerned that the wine actually had any radiation in it for safety concerns....................it is amazing how much radiation is certain wines.  What we found with our wines were the further west they were grown and the more sugar they had the more radiation was in it.  Many of those wines we have gotten rid of gladly.  We dont want the risk of drinking it and the market is quite happy to pay us a good some for those wines. 


Where did you send this wine to be tested?  Did they do it in the US or was this in Europe?  I ask because I believe these tests are done differently here then they are there.

(in reply to Pavie Princess)
Post #: 10
RE: Identifying fake wine - without destroying the bottle - 12/1/2008 2:51:00 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		There's a lot of talent out there on the CT Forums.
Fascination stuff.
Tx all,
L.

(in reply to gbm)
Post #: 11
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