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Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burgundy - 10/22/2008 2:37:52 AM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 921
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: online 		Reading this month's Decanter magazine there is an interesting article about Burgundy and how the big corporations are moving in to buy the land rather than it being passed down through the family.

As the land becomes more expensive, it is harder for families to equally divide land across the siblings (a legal requirement in France).  For example, a producer has 3 children.  The 3 children all get one third of the land, but they must pay 40% inheritance tax on the value of the land.  Also, if 2 of the children are not interested in going into making wine, then the remaining child must stump up the cash to buy the land.  Hence why more people are selling to outside investors.

Looks like it is going the way of Bordeaux.

< Message edited by pjaines -- 10/22/2008 2:38:29 AM >

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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 2:55:20 AM   
NiklasW

 

Posts: 509
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Finland
Status: online 		Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? Now Burgundy is exceedingly fragmented and it is difficult to find consistently wines that one takes a liking to. Too small production spread out too thinly. Of course that makes it a very interesting area because it is so diverse. On the otherhand, it makes it difficult to get a hold of anything at all in the wine peripheries of the world. Perhaps big corporations will make the wines more accessible? We get Jaboulet and Bouchard here in Finland, but only a handful of the little producers...

PS I don't think it is a good idea for big corporations to move in and make the wines loose their personality, just throwing out some ideas --> trolling

(in reply to pjaines)
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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 3:18:03 AM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 921
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: online 		Here is my controversial comment.

I'm ploughing my way through some Burgundies over the last year and I have consistently been dissapointed at the variable quality.  In the mid-price range I find it is hard to find wines that I would buy again. 

Maybe this is just an issue of getting access to good stuff, but the point is that there is a lot of junk coming out of Burgundy and passed off as good wine.  If they are going to sell a wine at £20 I sure as hell hope it is good.  Usually they are not.

I desperately want to get to know this region but given my experience of it thus far it is more a labour of love than rational purchasing.  If it had been any other region I would have dismissed it by now based on my variable experiences.

I know there is good stuff out there - I'm like a drug addict looking for a better hit.

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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 4:37:53 AM   
nwinther

 

Posts: 356
Joined: 7/28/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I pretty much agree with you. Burgundy is Terra Incognita to me as they come too dear and of inferiour quality.

One of the problem is the fragmentation not only amongst the appellations but also within the appellations. I think it's 20 people or so that owns the Montrachet GC vineyard. And it's hard to find a dealer that actually carries the same house for more than one or two vintages.

Having "corporations" or whomever has the means and will to do so, buying the vineyards and perhaps mergeing them together within their appellation can, to me, only strenghted Burgundy.

Chambertin GC is simply too expensive - especially if I don't know the producer and can't get my hands on another bottle, because this dude only makes 300 cases a year or whatever.

The Bordelaise system of second wines seem to me like something near perfection, and could be employed in Burgundy as well, if only the internal fragmentation wasn't so pronounced.

I find the same problem to some extent in Northern Rhône, regarding Rotie and Hermitage especially. You can buy crap Hermitage in Denmark for 20$ pr. bottle. Had the grapes been processed by a superiour producer, like Chapoutier, Guigal, Jaboulet etc. it'd have been either declassified or the product would be superiour to begin with. And the price would perhaps been doubled, but it'd be at leas twice as good as well.

I welcome corporations to Burgundy as it'll hopefully bring some consistency and Glasnost to the region.

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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 6:38:14 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 768
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		I'd have to agree with both of you on the experience and dollar for dollar I've had better wines from Bordeaux.  I know that's blasphamous to some but it's the fact based on experience, even up to my last attempt!

The issue with corps though is that they also have to know what they're doing which hasn't always been the case in wine's history.  So good Corps - good, bad corps - worse than current situation.

Wrighty

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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 7:14:51 AM   
petitblanc

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 2/20/2007
From: Madison, WI
Status: offline 		I love Burgundy, and I agree it's always been a minefield, with a high percentage of poor wines. Burgundy has certainly been traditionally variable from vintage to vintage, highly dependent on weather due to the marginal climate. There has also been a tendency toward overcropping and poor vinification methods among some producers.

I dont' know if it's global warming or better techniques, but Burgundy seems to be improving in quality lately, at least in the lower and middle price ranges. They sure harvested some incredible fruit in 2005, and seem to have made nice bottles throughout the $20 to $100 range. This vintage really has brought me back to Burgundy, as it's the first time in awhile where I've found great quality even in the less expensive wines.

Given the historic variability from year to year, I've learned to take advantage of the occasional great vintage and stock the cellar with as many affordable Burgundies as I can, and 2005 is definitely one of those vintages. It's still not going to impress some folks, though, as many palates seem to have become accustomed to heavy shiraz and cabernet, and Burgundy has never been and should never be that way...


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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 7:23:12 AM   
pjaines

 

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Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: petitblanc

It's still not going to impress some folks, though, as many palates seem to have become accustomed to heavy shiraz and cabernet, and Burgundy has never been and should never be that way...



My frustration is that I am looking for very very light elegant pinot noir from this region and I often end up with tannic, bitter generic wine or overpriced versions of what I can get from NZ and Oregon.  I've bought young and old, high cost, low cost and I've very rarely found that whispy, elegant, delicate pinot noir I would expect from this region.

But that is what drives me mad - I know it is out there somewhere and once I've found it I will probably worship this region more than any other. 


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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 8:06:57 AM   
petitblanc

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 2/20/2007
From: Madison, WI
Status: offline 		Paul,

I hope you'll keep looking. The lower you go in price, the longer it might take, but I think you'll eventually find what you seek in the 2005 Burgundies. IMO, it's worth looking for, as even the really good New World pinots are tending towards over-ripeness, lacking the the beautiful balance of a well-made Burgundy.


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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 8:09:31 AM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 921
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: online 		I'm in the £15-£30 price range at the moment.  As much as I would love to spend more, I want wines that I can drink at the moment to form an opinion.  Spending more on a bottle will be for wines I want to cellar.

The tyranny of choice!!!!

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Post #: 9
RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 9:27:41 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 731
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: petitblanc

as even the really good New World pinots are tending towards over-ripeness, lacking the the beautiful balance of a well-made Burgundy.



We absolutely need a "Judgement of Cot d'Or" between Burgundy, Martinborough, Oregon, and California.  Of the modest 44 PN's I've tried since joining CT, I positively prefer Oregon and New Zealand for their balance, complexity, richness, and depth.  There are also few spots in California that produce amazing wine that is not only balanced and well-made, it has distinct terroir.  I don't get much, if any, quality difference between good Oregon wine and France and I believe it is only a matter of time before DRC, Montrachet, Gevry and the like get a real run for their money from the New World.  Sacrelige, you say?  Well, when can we stage this showdown?  Perhaps a future VTE.

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Post #: 10
RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 9:33:48 AM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 921
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: online 		Great idea.  I think getting hold of the French stuff would be the hard bit (see notes above).

Unless the in-laws have a case of DRC in the cellar I dont know about of course!!!!

I agree to a point with the NZ, Oregon parts of the world giving burgundy a run for their money.  Having said that, after having one top-top-top quality burgundy before  (can't remember what it was) I can say that the top-of-the-top stuff is heart-breakingly good - it is at the more common levels that they are losing ground to the newer regions.

I do find some the new world stuff either too rich or too crunchy and thick but they are getting better with each year.

I think overall pinot noir wines seems to attract a premium on the price  - I can't think of any PN region where the wines are cheap.



< Message edited by pjaines -- 10/22/2008 9:40:03 AM >

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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 10:03:51 AM   
jhannah27

 

Posts: 523
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Anaheim, CA
Status: offline 		Some of the best PN from New Zealand usually only goes for around $40-$50 US.  I know that's not exceedingly cheap, but considering most of the top CA pinot is in the hundreds of dollars and the astronomical Burgs, it's a relative good bargain. 

I personally began trying NZ pinot about a year or two ago and have been floored by the quality coming out of there for the price.  I have had a couple of pinot's from down there for under $20 that have been really nice wines with the soft, and silky smooth flavors and textures that Paul described as what he looks for in a Burg.

Oh...and I don't know if you'd be able to find them in the UK or Europe, but the Santa Cruz Mountains in California are turning out some increasingly interesting pinots as well that are more Burgundian in style as opposed to the big Russian River or Central Coast pinots.


< Message edited by jhannah27 -- 10/22/2008 10:05:57 AM >

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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 1:04:41 PM   
petitblanc

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 2/20/2007
From: Madison, WI
Status: offline 		I think that would be an excellent experience, particularly if done blind. Not so much to find the "best" pinot, because palates seem widely divergent on such things, but to compare and contrast, and perhaps learn to appreciate the differences. My pinot budget being limited, I tend to focus on Burgundy, with only relatively sporadic tasting of non-French stuff -- I'm sure there's much I could learn.

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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 1:25:53 PM   
Blue Shorts

 

Posts: 314
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz, California
Status: offline 		I generally prefer "burgundian" style pinots, I have found some true gems in California, Oregon and New Zealand.

In California, my favorites are Muccigrosso (small, local winery), Mount Eden, Row Eleven, Sea Smoke (a bit fruit forward, but still very good), Tin House, among others.

In NZ, I have some 2002 Nevis Bluff that I just love.

In Oregon, my favorite is the Domaine Droughin....YUM.

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RE: Interesting article in Decanter magazine about Burg... - 10/22/2008 1:28:07 PM   
jhannah27

 

Posts: 523
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Anaheim, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blue Shorts

I generally prefer "burgundian" style pinots, I have found some true gems in California, Oregon and New Zealand.

In California, my favorites are Muccigrosso (small, local winery), Mount Eden, Row Eleven, Sea Smoke (a bit fruit forward, but still very good), Tin House, among others.

In NZ, I have some 2002 Nevis Bluff that I just love.

In Oregon, my favorite is the Domaine Droughin....YUM.


Bruce,

Were you turned on to the Droughin from the last VT or had you had it previously?


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"Quickly! Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever."
Aristophanes 450 - 385 b.c.

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