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Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price of Merlot

 
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Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price of ... - 5/30/2008 9:20:46 PM   
mbannon

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I guess when one door closes, another opens...

I remember buying Argyle's reserve Pinot for well under $20.  Now it's $47.  FORTY SEVEN Dollars!!  For Argyle Pinot!!!  From a vintage I don't even like!  Inconceivable.

On the other hand, Washington is floating in terrific Merlot that no one seems to want.  I'm not a big fan of the mega-bomb Syrah coming out of Walla Walla these days, but I guess as long as it keeps distracting folks from the Merlot, well I can't complain can I?
Post #: 1
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 5/31/2008 6:31:24 AM   
GalvezGuy

 

Posts: 320
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline 		I am a big Merlot fan.  There certainly are a lot of decent values from WA and some awesome 2005 Bordeaux that is either all or mostly Merlot.  I do admit that about 5-6 years ago, there was a lot of Merlot plonk in the marketplace, especially from CA.  Despite all of the backlash from the Sideways effect, Merlot is still the most consumed red in the US.  It has been droping but is still on top.

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RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 5/31/2008 7:03:29 AM   
J2K

 

Posts: 427
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Pinot prices are wickety wack!! It's hard to find enjoyable pinot for under $25.

I'm down with Merlot but I never got Columbia Crest. It always got good reviews for a low priced Merlot but it never impressed me much. Swanson makes some good Merlot and St.Francis. I have heard a lot about Washington Merlot, need to try some.

I had a Gaja Ca Marcanda Promis at a wine tasting (55% merlot) and it was the bomb!! But it is @ $50

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Post #: 3
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 5/31/2008 10:36:56 AM   
mbannon

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: J2K



I'm down with Merlot but I never got Columbia Crest. It always got good reviews for a low priced Merlot but it never impressed me much.

I agree.  A better bet for low-priced WA Merlot is Snoqualmie.


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Post #: 4
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 5/31/2008 11:00:24 AM   
duck833

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/13/2008
From: Eugene, Oregon
Status: online 		2006 Montinore Estate Pinot Noir

In the next WS they gave this 91 points.  I just bought a case of it for $18.00 per bottle from the Oregon Pinot Noir Club, the winery has a website you can order it direct and get another 10% off that.  Good price for a 91 point Oregon PN. 

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Post #: 5
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/2/2008 10:37:03 AM   
esb

 

Posts: 125
Joined: 1/17/2008
From: Bend, Oregon
Status: offline 		mbannon, I agree the price increases in Oregon have been quick and painful. What do you think the Argyle is worth? What do you think about quality v. price now and 10 years ago? And how do you think the wines compare nationally - California, and internationally - Burgundy. I think the wines were way undervalued the first two or three decades. We were spoiled with great undiscovered wines at a more than fair price. Also, the number of wineries and wines available is mind-boggling. I don't/can't keep up anymore. But that hasn't softened prices. Too many thoughts, I know, but that's how it came out.

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Post #: 6
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/2/2008 1:40:24 PM   
mbannon

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: esb

mbannon, I agree the price increases in Oregon have been quick and painful. What do you think the Argyle is worth? What do you think about quality v. price now and 10 years ago? And how do you think the wines compare nationally - California, and internationally - Burgundy. I think the wines were way undervalued the first two or three decades. We were spoiled with great undiscovered wines at a more than fair price. Also, the number of wineries and wines available is mind-boggling. I don't/can't keep up anymore. But that hasn't softened prices. Too many thoughts, I know, but that's how it came out.

It's actually been a while since I tasted Argyle's wines, so I really can't comment on their value.  But I sure can comment on their price, yowza!  As you say, though, it's not just Argyle (that's just the one I notice most, as Argyle is one of the wines I "cut my teeth on" so to speak).  I remember just a few years ago you could grab pretty much any Oregon Pinot off the shelf and be confident you'd be at least getting your money's worth.  Not so much anymore.  The honeymoon is over, I guess.

I can't keep up with all the wineries, either, for Oregon or Washington.  Or any other region, for that matter.  But it's fun to try!

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Post #: 7
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/3/2008 10:45:07 AM   
stevetimko

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		Give me some suggestions for quality Washington Merlot. I"ll be up in Seattle in September for CellarTracker!palooza and it'd be nice to find some good stuff at a reasonable price. 

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Post #: 8
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/3/2008 11:50:15 AM   
Dad of vinny

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 6/3/2008
Status: offline 		The problem with OR Pinot is that it is now creeped up in price to Cali Pinots which I find to be superior most of the time. A good one at a reasonable price is Cameron and St Innocent Cuvees Villages from OR.

WA Merlot is OK, but I'd rather drink right bank Bordeaux than most of the WA Merlots. Cadence Kliipsun is a good Merlot fronted blend.

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Post #: 9
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/3/2008 1:34:10 PM   
mbannon

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stevetimko

Give me some suggestions for quality Washington Merlot. I"ll be up in Seattle in September for CellarTracker!palooza and it'd be nice to find some good stuff at a reasonable price. 

Define "quality."  I love the Leonetti Merlot, but at $75+ per bottle I don't taste it often.  And it's not for everyone, very Italian in style.

Since you mentioned reasonable pricing, I assume you're looking more in the $20-ish range?  My favorites are Kestrel and Terra Blanca.  Really, though, it's hard to go wrong at that price point in Washington.  $10 or under is a bit more dicey.

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Post #: 10
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/3/2008 3:19:34 PM   
duck833

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/13/2008
From: Eugene, Oregon
Status: online 		I opened last night a 2006 A-Z Oregon Pinot Noir, just poured myself another glass after 24 hours.  Nice nose of berries and fruit.  Smooth balanced PN with reduced tannins after a 24 hour period.  This is a great drinker for $18 per bottle.

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Post #: 11
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/3/2008 3:53:07 PM   
J2K

 

Posts: 427
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Here are the top rated Washington Merlot's on CT for the last three years

2007 http://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?table=Notes&Vintage=2007&Country=USA&Region=Washington&iUserOverride=0&szSearch=merlot

2006 http://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?O=Rating%20DESC&table=Notes&Page=0&Vintage=2006&Country=USA&Region=Washington&iUserOverride=0&szSearch=merlot

2005 http://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?O=Rating%20DESC&table=Notes&Page=0&Vintage=2005&Country=USA&Region=Washington&iUserOverride=0&szSearch=merlot

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Post #: 12
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/3/2008 6:09:34 PM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dad of vinny

The problem with OR Pinot is that it is now creeped up in price to Cali Pinots which I find to be superior most of the time.



superior most of the time?...if you prefer drinking syrup.   It takes all kinds to make a world, don't it?

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Post #: 13
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/3/2008 6:56:21 PM   
esb

 

Posts: 125
Joined: 1/17/2008
From: Bend, Oregon
Status: offline 		They do feel different in the mouth. I'm not sure if it's possible to pin down the reasons for the difference - northern latitude, cool climate, growing season? Who knows.

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Post #: 14
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/3/2008 7:08:06 PM   
duck833

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/13/2008
From: Eugene, Oregon
Status: online 		Just had two glasses of 2006 Sweet Cheeks Oregon Pinot Noir with my steak Diane at Chanterelles  in Eugene.  Normally Sweet Cheeks is not a great label, their PN has been thin and simply not very good.  It is a newer vineyard and winery a few miles from Eugene.  Their 2006 is very nice.  Balanced, good fruit and nice color and a good btg wine.  Back up the truck on the 2006 Oregon Pinot Noir's, they are very drinkable now, who knows what they will be like two or three years from now.  Even the not so good producers are putting out good wine.

Life is good in Oregon right now, I wish the sun would come out just a little bit more though.  Maybe next week.

< Message edited by duck833 -- 6/3/2008 7:13:33 PM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/3/2008 8:26:58 PM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: esb

They do feel different in the mouth. I'm not sure if it's possible to pin down the reasons for the difference - northern latitude, cool climate, growing season? Who knows.


Here's my TN of a pretty well known CA producer who almost ruined grapes from one of Oregon's best vineyards:

2002 Sine Qua Non Pinot Noir Hollerin' M (USA, Oregon, Yamhill County)
1/10/2008 rated 91 points: NSMFOW January (The Grapevine, Salem, MA): Dark ruby, almost opaque. Nose of black cherries, heat. Palate of black cherries, candied cherries, cola with a backbone of velvety tannins. Acidity on the low side and finish was diminished somewhat by heat (15.4% alcohol). Overall this was a well-made CA-style pinot fruit bomb with enough structure to make it interesting and enjoyable. I've tasted a lot of wine from the Shea Vineyard, though, and I would not put this at the top of my list. (692 views)

This is also an example of  my tasting note being more reflective of my personal taste than the score would suggest. I think the hand of man plays more of a role in why the styles differ than the substrate.  Above is a case and point.

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Post #: 16
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/4/2008 7:29:09 AM   
esb

 

Posts: 125
Joined: 1/17/2008
From: Bend, Oregon
Status: offline 		That particular wine seems to be driven by the decision to pick the fruit so ripe. The trend is to let the fruit hang until the bitter end of the season, but 15.4% in PN seems very high to me. I appreciate more of a traditional, balance style - elegance over power with a building velvety richness. I'm not sure you can achieve that in a wine with 15.4% alcohol. Back to your point, I think warm climate producers tend to push the ripeness for flavor development. While Oregon winemakers are much more comfortable with the flavors achieved at lower sugars. I make a point of checking the bottles for the alcohol level (where are my glasses). Lately, I have had a few bizarre versions of Merlot and Zin that were obviously too ripe.

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Post #: 17
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/4/2008 7:55:27 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: esb

While Oregon winemakers are much more comfortable with the flavors achieved at lower sugars.



That is why I tend to prefer Burgundy and Oregon and shy away from (most) CA pinot.  I also have a soft spot for OR as I spend so much time there.

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Post #: 18
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/4/2008 9:34:52 AM   
Dad of vinny

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 6/3/2008
Status: offline 		I say superior as a whole because although there are certainly overblown fruit bombs in Cali, there are tons of thin kool aid like wines being produced in Oregon at a premium price. I think as a whole California is producing better Pinot Noir than Oregon. I will say that Oregon has some GREAT producers. Archery Summit Arcus and Torii Mor Shea are two of my all time favorites.

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Post #: 19
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/4/2008 10:02:34 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dad of vinny

I say superior as a whole because although there are certainly overblown fruit bombs in Cali, there are tons of thin kool aid like wines being produced in Oregon at a premium price. I think as a whole California is producing better Pinot Noir than Oregon. I will say that Oregon has some GREAT producers. Archery Summit Arcus and Torii Mor Shea are two of my all time favorites.


I'm not sure that I have enough experience or perspective to agree or disagree with you, especially since style is a factor.  I just know my preferences now and also know that my preferences are always subject to change  

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Post #: 20
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/4/2008 3:56:05 PM   
duck833

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/13/2008
From: Eugene, Oregon
Status: online 		Not sure if I agree with you regarding 2006 vintage, Oregon wine makers and growers really nailed it.  Seems even the normally less than average winery kicked out some nice juice.

I to enjoy Archery Summit, Shea, Domaine Serene etc.  These can be big extracted wines.  I belong to several of their wine clubs and have many bottles in the cellar that I am waiting on.  But they also produce lighter more classical PN's that are not as big.  I am enjoying the 2006 Shea Estate that is more balanced and lighter than some of the winemakers are making using the same fruit grown by David.  I believe there is a place in Oregon for both styles. I enjoy the big wines with certain dishes and pair the lighter more balanced wines with other things like salmon. 

Don't miss the 2006's.  I have pretty much maxed out my cellar with last weeks purchases.  I don't think 2007 will be as good for many of the growers and wine makers.

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Post #: 21
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/4/2008 6:23:15 PM   
Eric K

 

Posts: 85
Joined: 2/16/2008
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: duck833

I opened last night a 2006 A-Z Oregon Pinot Noir, just poured myself another glass after 24 hours.  Nice nose of berries and fruit.  Smooth balanced PN with reduced tannins after a 24 hour period.  This is a great drinker for $18 per bottle.


I completely agree on the A to Z.  We have had 2 of my 3 bottles so far.  Will be adding more this weekend.

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Post #: 22
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/5/2008 7:15:39 AM   
esb

 

Posts: 125
Joined: 1/17/2008
From: Bend, Oregon
Status: offline 		cgrimes, I have a soft spot for the wines as well. I live in Oregon and have followed them for a long time. The industry has a relatively small but supportive group of local consumers. The wineries have done a great job promoting the wines with tasting rooms and encouraging day trips to wine country. It would be interesting to know how much of the wine is consumed in-state. My guess is quite a lot, but it's not possible for us absorb it all considering the amount of wine produced.

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Post #: 23
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/5/2008 7:19:17 AM   
esb

 

Posts: 125
Joined: 1/17/2008
From: Bend, Oregon
Status: offline 		Concerning the A to Z, I was surprised to read that the $18 base wine is a 25,000 case blend. What a great success story.

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Post #: 24
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/5/2008 7:53:22 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: esb

cgrimes, I have a soft spot for the wines as well. I live in Oregon and have followed them for a long time. The industry has a relatively small but supportive group of local consumers. The wineries have done a great job promoting the wines with tasting rooms and encouraging day trips to wine country. It would be interesting to know how much of the wine is consumed in-state. My guess is quite a lot, but it's not possible for us absorb it all considering the amount of wine produced.


esb, I drink 90% of my Oregon wine when vacationing in Bend every July.  Massachusetts has a poor selection in most stores and flight restrictions have made it harder for me to bring much wine home. I am on the list at Bergstrom, and they are one of the few wineries which will ship to MA.  We have started a traditon of visiting the Willamette Valley yearly as well, so we are able to try some great wines.  I've actually contemplated setting up a satellite cellar out there so that I can age some of the pinots I drink, but have not sprung for that yet.

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Post #: 25
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/5/2008 9:42:47 AM   
rjonas

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 11/5/2006
From: Newcastle, WA
Status: offline 		Craig - Have you ever tried Z'ivo Pinot?  It's one of the itty bitty wineries in the Carleton/Dundee area (I forget which exactly).  Turned on to this one by a local friend in McMinnville... Brought some home and my local (Seattle area) friends were doing handsprings!

The other one I love from OR is Cana's Feast (formerly known as Cuneo Cellars).. Why they changed the name, I don't know but their '03 Syrah was exceptional...

Ron

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Post #: 26
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/5/2008 9:56:26 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Ron, I have not heard of either of those producers, but when I get a free moment later I will look them up and see if I can arrange a visit when I am there in July.  Thanks for the tip.
Craig

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Post #: 27
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/5/2008 9:59:50 AM   
rjonas

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 11/5/2006
From: Newcastle, WA
Status: offline 		Happy to share my stock with you next time you're in the neighborhood! (Maybe Sept!!) 

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Post #: 28
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/5/2008 10:06:08 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Great idea!

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Post #: 29
RE: Lamenting the price of Pinot, celebrating the price... - 6/5/2008 6:15:04 PM   
esb

 

Posts: 125
Joined: 1/17/2008
From: Bend, Oregon
Status: offline 		Amazing activity on the forum. This was bumped way down.

If you are serious about the cellar space, check out bendwinecellar.com. Their main business is leasing cellar space but they also have a small retail shop as well. It is a very small, quirky operation but the prices are very fair and the palates experienced. They are only open Thursday and Saturday for a few hours a day and they taste on Saturday. It's a fun stop if you happen to be in Bend. Nice people - very low key.

The shipping issue is a problem. When will reasonableness and common sense prevail? Apparently, too much $ on the line. I'm glad I live in Oregon.

Just had a very nice Patricia Green Estate. Soft texture - ready to drink. No need for the cellar.

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Post #: 30
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