CellarTracker Main Site
Register for Forum | Login | My Profile | Member List | Search

Most Collectable Wine

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Cellar Talk] >> General Discussion >> Most Collectable Wine Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Most Collectable Wine - 3/1/2008 3:25:01 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		As a number of us don't show our wine collections publically I thought it might be worth sharing most collectable wines.
I started buying individual wines each year so the pattern of vintages for each wine shows what I have considered to be the best buys each year (i.e. great wine at a fair price).
Look at the earlier post for my Leoville Barton.

Calon Segur   1995, 2000, 2003-6
Domaine de Chevalier 2000, 2003-5
Cos dÉstournel 1993, 1996, 2000-3, 2005-6
Lagrange 1996, 2000, 2003-5
Leoville Poyferre 1996, 2000, 2002-2006
Mouton Rothschild 1995-6, 1998-2005
Pichon Baron 1996, 2000-2002, 2004, 2006
Smith Haut Lafitte 1998-2000, 2003-2005


_____________________________

First they came for ....................
Post #: 1
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/1/2008 3:28:14 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		I guess I should have mentioned -

Almaviva 1997-2005
although I bought these at one time rather than after a detailed study of each vintage.

_____________________________

First they came for ....................

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 2
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/1/2008 5:54:22 AM   
jamscreator

 

Posts: 313
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Indiana USA
Status: offline 		Can't say that I really have any collectible wines, as the budget just doesn't allow it.  I tend to drink everything I acquire eventually.

_____________________________

Jeff Lawson

"Drink what you like, and like what you drink."
-Robert Mondavi

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 3
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/1/2008 7:52:04 AM   
ParkHill

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/27/2007
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Thanks Colonel. As I'm not so experienced with Bordeaux, I really appreciate the references from someone who does. Have you tried these enough to know they are in fact what you want; or do you have enough faith in the house and year to invest? Here's the meta-question: Are these collectible because they have skyrocket in price, or are they collectible because they have skyrocketed on your palate. In the first case, you might sell them for a killing; in the latter you couldn't bear to sell them, right?

I have shorter list of Barolo, based not so much on price escalation, but certainly they are wines that offer great quality at a reasonable price. Anyone who wants to try a good, structured Barolo could hardly do better than tasting the 2000 Monprivato, which is relatively early in its approachability (even so you'd want to leave open for 24 hours):

Cavallotto Bricco Boschis 1999, 2000, 2001
G Mascarello Monprivato 1999, 2000, 2001

This doesn't count some Benjamin Romeo from Rioja, which is such a boutique producer that it was just dumb luck that I came across it.

(in reply to jamscreator)
Post #: 4
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/1/2008 8:13:55 PM   
seanr7

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/5/2005
From: Oklahoma City
Status: offline 		My most collectable wine would have to be the 4 bottles of 1998 Grange I have.

(in reply to ParkHill)
Post #: 5
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/1/2008 11:00:39 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		I've drunk shockingly few of the wines I own, I base my purchasing judgement on everything I can find out about the wine (which is a lot if you search hard), placing supreme emphasis on blind tastings.  Additionally I rely on the reputation of the Chateau, for both making great wine, and for historically appreciating in value.  Finally I shop aggressively for bargains (using Wine Searcher to ensure I always get the best price I can).
As my ambition is to savour the best wines I can, while using the increase in value to pay for the pleasure (i.e. only actually consume 1/2 of what I buy), I have to pay great attention to Parker and other price moving phenomena.
The beauty of having started with the 2000 vintage is that I am able now to sell back to the dealer I bought from at prices 50-100% higher than I paid him ;)
From 2005 things have got much trickier, hence I'm searching New World offering much more, especially Australia.


_____________________________

First they came for ....................

(in reply to ParkHill)
Post #: 6
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/1/2008 11:08:14 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seanr7

My most collectable wine would have to be the 4 bottles of 1998 Grange I have.



I was lucky enough to accidentally buy a case of Grange a long while back: the dealer didn't have the Bordeaux I wanted and persuaded me to buy the Grange.
I shipped it to Korea and drank 8 bottles, gave 2 away as presents (which I regret) and still have 2 left.
Of the 8 I drank, most were consumed with friends over meals.  Every time I opened a bottle (normally with the attendees not knowing what it was) there was spontaneous delight - including from people who were not great wine connoisseurs.
It wasn't a great vintage either 1981 I think.
So you'll definitely enjoy your collection.
Cheers.
L.

(in reply to seanr7)
Post #: 7
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/2/2008 2:31:14 AM   
NiklasW

 

Posts: 435
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline 		No collectables in my collection   but have you tried out the "Most commonly owned wines" report in the Reports section? Maybe the top 100 (or so) on that list is some kind of indication of what people consider collectable? Very Bordeaux oriented list...

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 8
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/2/2008 3:49:06 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NiklasW

No collectables in my collection   but have you tried out the "Most commonly owned wines" report in the Reports section? Maybe the top 100 (or so) on that list is some kind of indication of what people consider collectable? Very Bordeaux oriented list...



I guess by collectable I meant wines that people acquired to hold rather than consume in the short term: the cellars people own are very much a mixture of these.
But you're right the "most commonly owned" is a pretty blue chip list - headed by my fav.!

_____________________________

First they came for ....................

(in reply to NiklasW)
Post #: 9
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/2/2008 6:39:14 AM   
jamscreator

 

Posts: 313
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Indiana USA
Status: offline 		I'm hoping some day that I will be able to invest some money into collectible wines and wines that will surely increase in value over the years.  Keeping my fingers crossed!  What a privilege!

_____________________________

Jeff Lawson

"Drink what you like, and like what you drink."
-Robert Mondavi

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 10
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/2/2008 2:11:58 PM   
ParkHill

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/27/2007
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Jamscreator,

Jay at Wine Advocate suggests that a budding collector should look to Spain. The quote is something to the effect of letting your friends plunk down for $400 Bordeaux in favor of $50-$100 Rioja and Priorat, then in 10 years blow their socks off in a blind tasting.

I must say that comparing prices and professional ratings, Spain has some amazing QPV. Better than Italyy. 2004 and 2005 are very good years. The $30 spanish wines I've tried are really special, but I'm still gaining experience. The other thing is that Riservas and Gran Riserva's are released years after bottling, so you have a chance to buy newly released Spanish wine with some age on it.

(in reply to jamscreator)
Post #: 11
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/2/2008 5:22:03 PM   
seanr7

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/5/2005
From: Oklahoma City
Status: offline
quote:

The other thing is that Riservas and Gran Riserva's are released years after bottling, so you have a chance to buy newly released Spanish wine with some age on it.


But if you pop one of these right away it will taste like a mouth full of oak saw dust.  A lot of Spanish wines aged for ever are done so in oak so they are not user friendly at first.  Just my .02 cents.

(in reply to ParkHill)
Post #: 12
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/2/2008 5:37:30 PM   
jamscreator

 

Posts: 313
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Indiana USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seanr7

quote:

The other thing is that Riservas and Gran Riserva's are released years after bottling, so you have a chance to buy newly released Spanish wine with some age on it.


But if you pop one of these right away it will taste like a mouth full of oak saw dust.  A lot of Spanish wines aged for ever are done so in oak so they are not user friendly at first.  Just my .02 cents.

ParkHill and seanr7 -

Thanks for the information.  I'll check it out and keep all info you've given me in mind during my first tasting.

_____________________________

Jeff Lawson

"Drink what you like, and like what you drink."
-Robert Mondavi

(in reply to seanr7)
Post #: 13
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/3/2008 2:39:03 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		A nice thing about Spanish wines is that you will often see them on shelf with some bottle age.
Sadly I know too little about Spain and have found that it hard to find great wine that is repeatable (i.e. you can find exactly the same wine and from the same vintage).
I have drunk a number of Torres wines that have been rather fine:
http://www.torres.es/eng/asp/nv_tintos.asp

_____________________________

First they came for ....................

(in reply to jamscreator)
Post #: 14
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/3/2008 7:58:14 PM   
ParkHill

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/27/2007
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		About the sawdust. Oak could be bad could be good. I'm neutral, perhaps. I'm much more offended by the jammy cab-blends from hot California and Washington vintages. It is true that I'm discovering I prefer more traditional styled Barolos without the heavy oak treatment.

What I'm finding in 2004/2005 Rioja is an amazing lushness, which perhaps does owe something to the oak. Vanilla and cream, sweetness, with fine tannins and not much bitterness. If that is oak, it's not a bad thing.

I'm thinking that if the producers are forced to abide by strict aging regimens, they can focus on optimizing the user experience within each category. Lush and ready for the Crianza; firmer and more robust for the Riserva; structured and backward for the Gran Riserva.

In any case, do try the 2004s and 2005s. Damn pleasurable, and we're talking $20s - $30.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 15
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/4/2008 2:47:27 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Will have to discover more about Italian wines!

Years ago (before I knew much at all about wine) I discovered Barol from Fontanafredda and Brolio Chianti Classico.

That remains about my sum knowledge to date - disgraceful I hear you yell.

(in reply to ParkHill)
Post #: 16
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/4/2008 5:07:25 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		I would like to add to the Colonel's list of collectable Bordeaux:

I think Pontet-Canet is a high quality, affordable, collectable wine.  I have 1996, 2000-2006 (pending).  Since 2000 this wine has really excelled.  Another in this category is Leoville Barton though recent hype has raised the prices.


(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 17
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/4/2008 6:47:50 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

I would like to add to the Colonel's list of collectable Bordeaux:

I think Pontet-Canet is a high quality, affordable, collectable wine.  I have 1996, 2000-2006 (pending).  Since 2000 this wine has really excelled.  Another in this category is Leoville Barton though recent hype has raised the prices.




Good addition, I have the recent vintages of Pontet Canet 2003-2006.
It's rather a Parker fav. so has increased it price somewhat.
"One cannot say enough about the labors of proprietor Alfred Tesseron, who has personally overseen the dramatic increase in quality of the wines at Pontet-Canet which started in a significant manner with 1994." RP
(I'm sure a short quote is OK with regard to copyright issues.)
 

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 18
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/4/2008 11:00:47 AM   
GalvezGuy

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline 		Good topic Colonel

My collectibles (or least my opinion)

1959 Leoville Las Cases
1988 Mouton Rothschild
2001 Latour
2001 Haut Brion
1996 Montrose (2)
2002 Montrose (4)
2004 Montrose (4)
1996 Cos (2)
2003 Cos (2)
2000 Lagrange (6)
2003 Leoville Barton (4)
2004 Leoville Barton (11)
1998 Trotanoy (3)
1999 Certan de May (5)
2005 Secret de Carinale (6)
2003 La Tour Blanche (2)
2003 Rieussec (2)
2003 Guiraud (2)
2005 Guiraud
2003 Lafaurie-Peyraguey  (5)
2003-2005 Clos de Papes CdP (2)
2005 Kosta Browne RRV (2)
2005 Kosta Browne Sonoma Coast (2)
2004 Sea Smoke Botella
2005 Sea Smoke Botella (5)
2004 Sea Smoke Southing (5)
2005 Sea Smoke Souting (9)
2005 Sea Smoke Ten (3)
2004 Clos Erasmus (2)
2004 El Nido Jumilla Clio (4)
2006 Mitolo GAM (4)
2001 Don Melchor
2003 Don Melchor (5)
2004 Don Melchor (5)

I am basing most of the non-Bordeaux wines on price appreciation from release price.  The Bordeauxs are more of a personal opinion.

_____________________________

If you're gonna be dumb you better be tough

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 19
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/4/2008 10:27:24 PM   
ParkHill

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/27/2007
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		For the Colonel.

quote:

Will have to discover more about Italian wines!


Try some of the 2000 Barolos. They are quality and a bit earlier to awaken, especially with a 12 or 24 hour decant. Specifically, the G. Mascarello Monprivato, which will give you an intro to Nebbiolo with Structure and the Tar/Iron/Blood quality. This wine will surely open with time, but isn't too tannic nor closed. The other style of Nebbiolo is more feminine, i.e. towards the aromatic, with some violet. Maybe try a Giacosa Barbaresco, but I don't have an early recommendation for you, as Giacosa is a traditional producer and his wines really need some aging. Maybe try Sandrone Le Vigne from 2000. This is a modern producer, which gives you very clean, fruity, intense wines.

In any case, you almost can't go wrong with 1999, 2000 and 2001 in Piedmont. It's just that 1999 and 2001 need a few years.

(in reply to GalvezGuy)
Post #: 20
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/5/2008 12:24:53 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info.
Yes Italy is next for me, and I have a brother-in-law who lives there!
Suspect it's going to take some time to do the country justice.

(in reply to ParkHill)
Post #: 21
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/5/2008 9:54:59 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		I suspect that nearly any classified Bordeaux would fit into the "collectable" category because even in lesser vintages, 1) the prices increase over time, and 2) nearly all need at least 10yrs to show their stuff.

I am surprised by your inclusion of Sea Smoke.  I have been getting allocations from them for 2 years and will likely be giving mine up as I think it is an overrated, overhyped, overextracted, overpriced wine.  Can still get Premier Cru and even an occasional Grand Cru Burgundy which is more interesting.  Perhaps I should give them more time.

(in reply to GalvezGuy)
Post #: 22
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/6/2008 6:58:17 AM   
GalvezGuy

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

I suspect that nearly any classified Bordeaux would fit into the "collectable" category because even in lesser vintages, 1) the prices increase over time, and 2) nearly all need at least 10yrs to show their stuff.

I am surprised by your inclusion of Sea Smoke.  I have been getting allocations from them for 2 years and will likely be giving mine up as I think it is an overrated, overhyped, overextracted, overpriced wine.  Can still get Premier Cru and even an occasional Grand Cru Burgundy which is more interesting.  Perhaps I should give them more time.


Sea Smoke and Kosta Browne were inlcuded only because I can sell them for more than 2x what I paid for them.  Often collectibility has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with supply and demand.  I will probably be selling my Sea Smoke and Kosta Browne in order to buy better QPR wines.

_____________________________

If you're gonna be dumb you better be tough

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 23
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/6/2008 9:37:37 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		If you can sell your Sea Smoke for that price, perhaps I should sell mine as well.  The question is should I keep my yearly allocation just to resell it! :-)

(in reply to GalvezGuy)
Post #: 24
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/6/2008 10:40:58 AM   
rjonas

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 11/5/2006
From: Newcastle, WA
Status: offline 		Definitely agree a good topic..

Collectibility is a delicate balance as you have to balance total storage capacity with what you want to cellar as well as your "daily drinkers". 

I increased my storage capacity significantly last year, however I also increased the number of bottles that I'm wanting to cellar, so I will have to be prudent about cellarable purchases this year (or really need to start drinking more!!!)

Here are some of the wines that I'm cellaring at this time:
2005 Almaviva
2005 Caymus Cab Special Selection
2004-05 Darioush Cab
2005 DeLille Cellars Chaleur Estate
1994/2004 Chateau Ducru-Beaucaillou
2001-2005 Chateau Lascombes
2000-01/04 Leonetti Cab
1999-2004 Chateau Leoville Barton
2000/02 Pio Cesare Barolo
2004 Chateau Pontet-Canet
2001-03 Silver Oak Napa Valley
2002-05 Tofanelli Charbono

Question for the group:  As the Colonel pointed out in his initial note, not everyone makes their wine lists public.  My question is why not?  I actually think it's fun to puruse other users wine cellars.. Gives me great ideas on what peoples tastes are and other wines I may want to try...

Ron

(in reply to GalvezGuy)
Post #: 25
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/6/2008 11:57:26 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Great question.  I was thinking about that myself when I independently tried last week to see what the Colonel collects.  Alas, I was denied access.  I think seeing what others cellar is valuable--especially as over time I have gotten a sense of several CT users who have very similar tastes to me.  Perhaps some see it  as a security issue.

(in reply to rjonas)
Post #: 26
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/6/2008 10:48:43 PM   
NiklasW

 

Posts: 435
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I've also enjoyed looking at other peoples cellars, especially when somebody has written a positive review of a wine that I have/like. In those cases it's fun to see what else that person has, to get ideas of what I might also like, but didn't know about!

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 27
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/6/2008 11:32:11 PM   
ParkHill

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/27/2007
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		I've been thinking about the concept of collectibility.

I'm pretty strongly attached to QPV. In looking through my cellar, I feel I've overpaid for some cult producers, and discovered wines I love at half price or better. I'll be interested to see if the cult wines warrant the glory in a few years when they finally age in!

But, if collectible is about price appreciation, it is unclear whether cult producers will do better than my High QPVs. Maybe, if they stay cult, meaning everybody will continue chasing after them. My High QPVs have more upside, but only if they move toward the cult or at least highly desired category.

In addition, if the question is whether I'm better off purchasing new wines and storing them, or investing the money and buying the same wines in a few years. By the rule of 72, a wine would double in 10 years at 7% appreciation, so the question is whether wine appreciates faster than inflation or my investment skills. Looking at 10 year old wines vs new releases, it seems to me (roughly) that retail prices on new releases have gone up faster than pricing on older wines. Expensive as they may be, I may have a better investment (not to mention drinking experience) on a 1996 Barolo, than on a 2004 Barolo, plus I have to wait 10 years on that new release.

That begs the question of availability. Winebid does seem to have availability on well-rated wines with some age. Some of these are pretty good, but now that I'm seeking particular wines, I'm not necessarily finding them at winebid.

(in reply to NiklasW)
Post #: 28
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/7/2008 12:43:16 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

Great question.  I was thinking about that myself when I independently tried last week to see what the Colonel collects.  Alas, I was denied access.  I think seeing what others cellar is valuable--especially as over time I have gotten a sense of several CT users who have very similar tastes to me.  Perhaps some see it  as a security issue.



Fair question, I've struggled with whether to display all my wines or not.
I have no objection to sharing the wines, but the quantities I'm not so happy about.
If I could surpress quantities (and hence values), while showing the list, then everyone gets what they want.
Is it possible - Eric?

By the way, enjoyed your list Ron, you see I have most of the French, the first Chilean and none of the others!

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 29
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/7/2008 8:02:23 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Colonel - understand your reserve on showing your wines but I think you've indicated you've got a pretty good cellar to the forum at least.  It would be good to see as you've probably got the best research on Bordeaux on CT. 

In terms of my collectibles.

Lynch Bages
Leoville Barton
Pontet Canet
Leeuwin Art Series Chardonnay
Cullen Diana Madeline (recent convert)
Moss Wood Cab
E&E Plack Pepper Shiraz
Amon Ra (recently)
Vintage Krug
Dom Perignon
Rieussec
Suduiraut
Trimbach cuvee federic emile
Sassicaia
Fonseca Port
Both Pichons
Dr Loosen

Wrighty

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Cellar Talk] >> General Discussion >> Most Collectable Wine Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

3.395