Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines!

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Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/10/2008 3:41:40 PM

Rak

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Hello Burghounds,

As someone attempting to gain enterance to the simultaneously perplexing and thrilling region of red Burgundy one of my chief difficulties is accurately identifying the most consistent producers and wines; the sort of wines one might return to year in, year out without hesitation.

Please, pretty please open the vault and reveal your secrets!

Happier drinking!

Post #: 1

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/10/2008 4:35:34 PM

Serge Birbrair

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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May I see your bank statement???
:)

Dujac
Girardin,
Faiveley
Domaine Robert Chevillon
Jacques Prieur
Frédéric Magnien
Dominique Laurent
Domaine Marquis d'Angerville

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/10/2008 4:54:57 PM

RoundersRob

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From: Santa Cruz, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

May I see your bank statement???
:)

Dujac
Girardin,
Faiveley
Domaine Robert Chevillon
Jacques Prieur
Frédéric Magnien
Dominique Laurent
Domaine Marquis d'Angerville

Sure Serge - put Dujac at the top again. Do they even make anything less than $200?

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 3

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/10/2008 5:02:37 PM

Serge Birbrair

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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Yes, but...why would you want it!?

Actually, you do!
http://cotac.com/Denmark.html
:)

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/10/2008 5:07:51 PM

RoundersRob

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I just remember the one you brought to dinner in Portland which totally spoiled Lisa and I. It was a 95 or a 96.. Do you remember which one it was?

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Post #: 5

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/10/2008 8:46:40 PM

Paul S

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From: Singapore
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Great list Serge, although I must say that while I find F Magnien and Dominique Laurent's bottlings consistent (and I have some really good wine from the later in particular), I tend to see the winemaker overshadow the sense of terroir in their wines, especially in the long maceration and tons of new oak they use. If the wine from a vintage can stand up to it, then all well and proper, but sometimes I find the pinot character tends to get overwhelmed. Well, that's just my two cents worth.

If I may perhaps add a few to your list (assuming unlimited resources of course):

Dujac
Girardin,
Faiveley
Domaine Robert Chevillon
Jacques Prieur
Frédéric Magnien
Dominique Laurent
Domaine Marquis d'Angerville

Meo-Camuzet
DRC
William Fevre (Chablis Grand Crus)
Jadot (but usually on the higher end wines, which all need time to show their quality)
Fourrier (Gevrey)
Humbert Freres (Gevrey)
Armand Rosseau (Le Chambertin / Clos St Jacques - class year in and year out)

Quite a few more producers I like, but these are the ones I have had some experience with and have found them to be consistent good vintage or bad vintage. I;ll leave the others to put in names that they may have more experience with.

< Message edited by Paul S -- 7/10/2008 11:11:38 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/10/2008 9:56:34 PM

RoundersRob

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Robert Groffier is also pretty consistent.

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Post #: 7

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/10/2008 10:16:02 PM

Serge Birbrair

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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Paul, Rob,
no arguments from me, good additions indeed.

The Dujac in Portland was 1996, seducing wine lovers with Dujac is the easiest thing to do in winegeekdom.

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/10/2008 11:13:52 PM

Paul S

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As far as negociants go, I have had good experiences with Nicolas Potel and Mischief and Mayhem. You still can find pretty good value with them, and while not the most consistent over the past few years, they are improving and have been on a more or less upward trajectory in terms of quality.

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Post #: 9

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/11/2008 10:25:25 AM

Rak

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/6/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

May I see your bank statement???
:)

Dujac
Girardin,
Faiveley
Domaine Robert Chevillon
Jacques Prieur
Frédéric Magnien
Dominique Laurent
Domaine Marquis d'Angerville

Oh Serge, I see poverty beckoning! Damn this Burgundy region....
Your splendid list of producers (F. Magnien and Laurent are completely new to me) for me to explore does not help!

Happier drinking!

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Post #: 10

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/11/2008 10:31:52 AM

Rak

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul S

Great list Serge, although I must say that while I find F Magnien and Dominique Laurent's bottlings consistent (and I have some really good wine from the later in particular), I tend to see the winemaker overshadow the sense of terroir in their wines, especially in the long maceration and tons of new oak they use. If the wine from a vintage can stand up to it, then all well and proper, but sometimes I find the pinot character tends to get overwhelmed. Well, that's just my two cents worth.

If I may perhaps add a few to your list (assuming unlimited resources of course):

Dujac
Girardin,
Faiveley
Domaine Robert Chevillon
Jacques Prieur
Frédéric Magnien
Dominique Laurent
Domaine Marquis d'Angerville

Meo-Camuzet
DRC
William Fevre (Chablis Grand Crus)
Jadot (but usually on the higher end wines, which all need time to show their quality)
Fourrier (Gevrey)
Humbert Freres (Gevrey)
Armand Rosseau (Le Chambertin / Clos St Jacques - class year in and year out)

Quite a few more producers I like, but these are the ones I have had some experience with and have found them to be consistent good vintage or bad vintage. I;ll leave the others to put in names that they may have more experience with.

Hello guys,

This is so useful. Thanks Serge and Paul S; I'm printing of these lists for furthur exploration.
Let me know if specific wines from these guys, or anyone else, particularly appeal. Paul S, I liked the comment on the winemaker possibly obscuring terroir. To suit a more "modern" palate?

much Happier drinking!

(in reply to Paul S)

Post #: 11

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/11/2008 10:44:15 AM

Serge Birbrair

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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Rak, there is a way to explore Burgundy which doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Stores in our area make wine tastings by theme and you have a chance to try 12-18 bottles at a price cheaper than some of those single bottles alone.

Check your area, you might find some too!

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Having a good day? I can spoil it! -

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Post #: 12

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/11/2008 10:46:58 AM

Rak

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

Rak, there is a way to explore Burgundy which doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Stores in our area make wine tastings by theme and you have a chance to try 12-18 bottles at a price cheaper than some of those single bottles alone.

Check your area, you might find some too!

Good idea Serge; I'll start searching.

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Post #: 13

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/12/2008 1:19:39 AM

Paul S

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I certainly second Serge there. I taste most of my absolute top-end Burg at confrerie tastings, or tastings organised by retailers who either 1) treat me like a friend and invite for these posh spreads, or 2) think that I have more spending power than I actually do and give me little teasers. How else would I ever get to try a $2,500 bottle of DRC?

Rak - I do mean "modern". In both cases, rather heavy on the new oak and long maceration for greater extract. I have not had bad wines from F. Magnien, on the contrary, they all have been consistently decent, just not my style. Almost seems like cross-breed between old and new world styles. I prefer his bottlings under his father's label, Michel Magnien, which Serge and I talked about in some other thread - these generally seem more classic Burgundy to my palate. As for Laurent, he actually uses 200% new oak, if there is such a thing! He barrels his wines in 100% new oak for X number of months, and then racks them into another set of 100% new barrels. I have had some fabulous bottles from him, where the fruit and oak have integrated after time in the bottle, last one being the 1997 Les St Georges, which had glorious fruit notes that stood up to the oak treatment. http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=117649 , but some bottles were just way out for me. e.g. http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=370793

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Post #: 14

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/12/2008 3:06:06 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Paul, Laurent uses 200% oak but only in very expensive bottles. I don't have them, thus they don't bother me.

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/12/2008 10:08:37 AM

Paul S

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That's a useful nugget of info - I was under the impression that he does that for all his bottlings. The top ones I have tried are actually pretty good but, as you point out, very expensive. The lower end ones that I have tried, mostly 1er Crus, are rather too oaky for my liking.

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Post #: 16

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/12/2008 10:36:31 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Paul, we are having rotisseries duck tonight, I'll open my last bottle of Laurent I have at home and we'll exchange notes.
I have http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=130102
I seem to like it a lot before...

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/13/2008 9:05:11 AM

Paul S

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oooh, sound like a match made in heaven. Let me know how it goes Serge.

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/13/2008 9:42:26 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Paul, the duck was marinated in
salt, red pepper, black pepper, bay leaf, brine overnight,
will be boiled in the same brine for 30 mins and than rotisseries til perfection.
TN's coming tonight .

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/13/2008 7:12:44 PM

Paul S

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my goodness, I'm hungry already.

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/13/2008 7:13:12 PM

Serge Birbrair

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Paul,
the wine has a nose of the horse saddle after it was ridden in for 3 hours at full galloping speed. Still oaky, but not obstrusive, no this smoky, burnt toast oak. Has plenty of life left, I wouldn't be hurrying opening it up, unless you just want to enjoy it with or without food.

http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=130102

< Message edited by Serge Birbrair -- 7/13/2008 7:14:13 PM >

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/13/2008 7:17:02 PM

Paul S

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From: Singapore
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Sure looks like it, most of the 1999 monsters are sleeping at the moment. Bet it went really well with the duck though.

Actually, as a point of comparison, you might want to try some of Nicolas Potel's bottlings, he's Laurent's immediate neighbour and makes wines in a ver different style.

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Post #: 22

RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/13/2008 7:19:34 PM

Serge Birbrair

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The duck was sublime and melted in the mouth and...has a crispy skin, the perfect combo.
I tried Nicolas Potel, he wasn't my favorite for some reason.

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/14/2008 8:21:26 AM

Paul S

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Potel comes to Singapore every year to do a tasting and dinner with the Confrerie. I went for the one this year, and the quality of some of his top wines astounded me. I always liked some of his stuff, but its the first time I was blown away. The Clos de Bezes were good throughout the vintage, the Clos St Denis generally showed pretty well (we had the 2004 and 2002), while the Criots Batard Montrachet 2006 was mind-blowing. Easily one of the best white wines I have ever had.

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/14/2008 8:23:36 AM

Serge Birbrair

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I'll have to re-evaluate him than. I only tried his Pommard.

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 7/14/2008 8:31:34 AM

Paul S

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From: Singapore
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Please do try and let me know what you think - I was absolutely blown away by the quality of his top wines at this tasting!

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 8/7/2008 3:18:11 PM

Rak

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Hello,

May I add the wines of the biodynamic Lafarge?

I've, somewhat recklessly, splashed out on a case of the 2002 Clos du Chateau des Ducs!

Happier drinking!

p.s. your noteworthy recent Burgundy buys?

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 8/8/2008 7:13:59 AM

superbarre

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a very interesting site on the matter

http://www.burgundy-report.com/

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 8/8/2008 7:16:33 AM

superbarre

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From: Leuven, Belgium
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also, if you have Google earth installed, go to this site
http://www.vinotopia.be/maps/
and click on one of the kml links at the left of the page...

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RE: Most consistent red Burgundy producers/wines! - 8/9/2008 8:14:40 AM

Paul S

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From: Singapore
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I have had quite a few Leroy bottlings recently and would heartily recommend Mdm Lalou's excellent and very individual wines to Serge's list. Very painful on the pocket unfortunately.

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Post #: 30