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NWR: No place to hide - 7/11/2008 7:25:43 PM

Serge Birbrair

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First shoe drops,
will be more
http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/11/news/companies/indymac_fdic/index.htm?postversion=2008071120

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/11/2008 9:18:29 PM

zippz

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interesting article serge
if this is any indication of what lays ahead
my first instinct is to run and find a place to hide...
knowing damn well that there is "No place to hide"

in keeping with your thread title and relationship to the market
i offer this kernel of stock related inquiry for you to chew on
noting your expertise in bulls, bears and paper tigers
i figure you could make heads or tails of this better then most of us
it would be interesting to hear your take on this
http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/stockputs.html

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)

Post #: 2

RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 3:45:12 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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For CTers not familiar with Option Trading here are a few thoughts:
1. very few options are traded each day compared with the ordinary stock of a company.
2. my own very modest options trades are often the bulk of puts or calls at a particular strike price, on a particular day, on blue chip NYSE companies
3. options are used for numerous reasons, one being to control risk in volatile stock (airlines are)
You'll need to really understand the subject before leaping to conspiracy theories based on option trades, especially as it's possible to find out who made the trades.
Not saying the article is wrong, just be cautious in leaping to conclusions on a wine board.

Time for a song (sorry couldn't find an MP3).
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/antiflag/911forpeace.html

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 7:32:55 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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So that was you up the ladder.
L.

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 7:40:31 AM

Serge Birbrair

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I take it as your vote for the last one. Glad you enjoyed the moment.
:)

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 7:43:06 AM

J2K

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Is that a chastity belt or tin foil to keep the heat in??

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Post #: 6

RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 7:51:33 AM

Serge Birbrair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: J2K

Is that a chastity belt or tin foil to keep the heat in??

To answer your question, I'll quote the article and you tell me what is going to happen in the next few weeks/months:

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2008/07/07/daily91.html

quote:

The FDIC also said it expects the fund to pay between $4 and $8 billion out of its deposit insurance fund, which backstops all U.S. bank deposits to a certain dollar level, in part to stave off a deposit run on banks.
At the start of the 2008, the FDIC insurance fund had $52.2 billion in assets.

Indymac is relatively small bank and FDIC will use roughly 15% of it's reserves.
What happens when few much bigger banks file for bancruptcy!?

Do I need the hat not to think about it or "chastity belt" not to be affected by it?

I don't know.

< Message edited by Serge Birbrair -- 7/12/2008 7:52:15 AM >

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 10:36:49 AM

zippz

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lmao...
yes well... i'm quite fond of the top & bottom attire of the Birbrair Designer Label fashion line... this would make the ideal outfit for me... it not only looks sexy and smart but you never know for sure how those alien abductions are going to go... Sempar Paratus... must protect the jewels as well as the melon you know...
i'm smart like that.

as for the alien's possible interests in others... i think we can rule out their involvement in 911... i mean come on, i can't image a highly evolved life form having any interest in anyone else but me

as for my sneaking 911 into my last three posts...
think of it as a community service...
it's my attempt to enlighten the masses of sheeple
no matter how futile the effort might be
there were a couple opportunities
so Carpe Diem

now as for others sneaking in their extracurricular interests...
i've seen way more threads peppered with such
though it's generally shallow fluff subject matters
that really have very little significance to our lives

All i'm asking peeps to do is step outside of what you have been told/sold about 911
and look at what your kid's grade school science text
has to say about fundamental laws of gravity, mass and motion
if you see a blatant contradiction... then i encourage you to investigate further
thinking for your self, based on concrete undisputable proven facts, is a good thing
i highly recommend it

Post #: 8

RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 10:43:17 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Todd Agosto, according to Winston Churchill,
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

therefore,

Is Wine Good Or Bad?
In one sura we find that wine is Satan's handiwork.
(Koran 5:90)
...Intoxiacants (wine) and gambling...are of Satan's
handiwork...
But then in other suras Koran says there are rivers of wine in Paradise.
(Koran 47:15)
Here is a Parable of the Garden which the righteous
are promised. In it are...rivers of wine...
My question is : how did Satan manage to introduce his handiwork in Paradise?

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 11:27:52 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zippz

as for my sneaking 911 into my last three posts...
think of it as a community service...
it's my attempt to enlighten the masses of sheeple

So enlighten away - what's the scoop?
L.

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 11:53:15 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Colonel, you are joking while Todd Agosto is onto something. I dig completely what he is saying, we use the same sources.

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 12:58:51 PM

zippz

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"fanatic"... "the onion"... cute... but no cigar amigo
looks like someone is berry berry afraid of the dark....side
Muahahahahahahahhahaha there is "No place to hide"
escape artists are good at diverting your attention and switching subjects
re-investigating 9/11 is just as valid of a task as any,
if not one of the most important of our time
but if it's too much for the "big guns"?

we can chat about whatever subject matter you are most comfortable with
(though i thought this topic was NWR?)

interesting... this contradiction on wine in the koran reminds me of many of those in the bible
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#contradictions

therefore, would be safe to assume that there are loop holes in all major texts/bills/bibles of law/rules/morals ...
case in point for the arabs who make wine
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2007/12/2008525185739589241.html

< Message edited by zippz -- 7/12/2008 1:10:06 PM >

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 1:21:05 PM

Blue Shorts

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I'm not a conspiracy theorist by nature. The problem with most (I didn't say all) conspiracy theories is that they don't require any real proof. All they requires is the connection of what appears to be an improbable happening with a current belief that someone is out to get you. The major part of believing a conspiracy theory involves taking the leap of faith from observed occurrances to considering them actual proof, when in most instances there is no real proof... just suspicious happenings.

Almost all happenings around us are highly improbable. Take something like the probablility of dieing from a lightening strike in the US. The average odds are around 2,500,000 to one, yet despite those odds around 100 people die each year in the US from lightening strikes. The odds that anything around you will happen at that exact place and time to that exact person or thing are astronomical, yet it all happens and if viewed from the results it can be considered planned, or a conspiracy, or a religious happening.

In my opinion, conspiracy theorists are like highly religious people. The believe in their religion and use whatever they can to support their beliefs. You can't talk a person out of believing since belief requires no proof, by definition.

Havings said all of that.... Are some conspiracy theories true? It's definitly possible. It's just not likely.

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 2:09:40 PM

Serge Birbrair

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I think this thread can now be described in few words as:

The French Paradox is something many people today are getting quite familiar to. In October 1885 Freud went to Paris on a travelling fellowship to study with Europe's most renowned neurologist, Jean Martin Charcot. Studies have suggested a close relationship between the moderate consumption of red wine and a healthy heart. He was later to remember the experience of this stay as catalytic in turning him toward the practice of medical psychopathology and away from a less financially promising career in research neurology. This phenomenon goes under the name French Paradox because although the French eat as much saturated fat as Americans, they seem to enjoy better overall cardiovascular health. Charcot specialised in the study of hysteria and its susceptibility to hypnosis which he frequently demonstrated with patients on stage in front of an audience. Even though these studies show that polyphenols, which is in red wine, can help your heart, blood circulation, and many other things, doctors still argue about this, especially American doctors disagree with this outcome. Freud later turned away from hypnosis as a potential cure, favouring free association and dream analysis.

Blue, Colonel,
carry on, as I can no longer have any free association with dream analysis induced by too much of French paradoxing.

< Message edited by Serge Birbrair -- 7/12/2008 2:12:13 PM >

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 2:43:21 PM

zippz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence

quote:

ORIGINAL: zippz

as for my sneaking 911 into my last three posts...
think of it as a community service...
it's my attempt to enlighten the masses of sheeple

So enlighten away - what's the scoop?
L.

Well Larry it looks like you are the only one who is brave enough.
Blue Shorts ironically your description applies to those who believe in the "official story".

Let's start with the weakest link...WTC7 ... this clip is apox 7min long...
it does an excellent job of making clear what is fundamentally wrong.
Serge close your eyes... this might scare you

and BS leave your preconceived notions/assumptions/labels/filters at the door...
it's important to have both eyes and ears open...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3ePuE0tvp4

at the end if you find yourself saying WTF
i suggest watching the documentary "911 Mysteries"
have some scrap paper handy... to scribble down notes
believe me you are going to want to double check many of the claims
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4RrnL1z1wY
(note: it is divided into multiple parts... the link here is to part 1)
after reviewing all the parts and you are hungry for more
watch "Loose Change" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yx9NRX37SM

< Message edited by zippz -- 7/12/2008 2:45:19 PM >

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 2:48:33 PM

J2K

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I watched the clips but I couldn't spot the other shooter behind the grassy knoll. I still think it was Oswald acting alone.

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 4:37:39 PM

Blue Shorts

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Sorry Zipps.

I don't buy the conspiracy theories. Read and watch this http://debunking911.com/pull.htm I find the data here much more compelling.

I think that our government is way too inept to construct a conspiracy like this, let alone keep. it secret. It takes smart people like you to construct a conspiracy

I will admit that it's much more fun to believe the conspiracy.

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 4:57:55 PM

fingers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zippz

.
ironically your description applies to those who believe in the "official story".

I'd like to point out that I think nearly all the American soldiers and civilians that have died believe the "official story". How many conspiracy theorists have committed their lives to their "truth"?

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/12/2008 5:45:23 PM

zippz

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wow... ok i read the lengthy debunking article
about half way through i started feelin nauseous

Blue please tell me that you are kidding?
Need to take those CT glasses off...you can trust your own eyes...
and rest assured... The Truth won't blind you.

So what you are saying is...
WTC7, a 47 story steel structure building,
collapsed on it's own at free fall speed
(as if it was made of butter),
straight down into it's own foot print
(no tipping or leaning as it went down)
due to a couple mid level floors on fire and
insignificant structural damage on one side of the building?

Last i checked the Empire State Building is still standing.
http://www.withthecommand.com/2002-Jan/NY-empireplane.html

and fingers... i don't know how to reply to such a statement... for it clearly shows how emotionally charged this subject is for you. All i can say is that we owe it to those who put their lives on the line for this country... to have no rock unturned in this investigation. If you look at the so called research and investigation that NIST, FEMA and the Commission conducted... it's subsubsubpar at best. And if you are angry at those who continue to question our governments' actions prior, during and after 9/11... then i think your anger is disturbingly misdirected... for you would also have a problem with the widows of 911... here's a great documentary about their struggle "Press for Truth"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwDQ1xIm1Fk

< Message edited by zippz -- 7/12/2008 5:59:54 PM >

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/13/2008 3:03:50 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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"Ockham's razor" is a principle attributed to the English logician William of Ockham. The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in explaining the outcome.
This is often paraphrased as "other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best."
In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest involvements.
This is essentially how I approach an issue.

Only once the likely, probable and possible have been eliminated would I leap to the ulikely or implausible.

I'm still at stage one on this issue, and I suspect others are, and hence our difficulty in leaping to agree with you.

Having said all that if no one challenged the 'likely' we'd probably still think the world was flat (I hope it isn't), so keep on with the challenging, just go for more positive evidence, rather than pointing out peculiarities.

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/13/2008 6:22:14 AM

zippz

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As the acronym/saying goes K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid

...so let's apply the Ockham's razor then...
a perfect way to explain how an event, such as 9/11, can have so many coincidences surrounding it?

Conspiracy question (CQ): "How did the towers completely collapse to the ground at free-fall speed when the fires weren't even hot enough to melt the steel?"
Occam's razor answer (OR): "The planes crashing into them caused structural damage and the jet fuel fires didn't have to melt the steel, but only needed to weaken them which caused the trusses to give and the weight of the top section caused each floor to pancake down on each other at a high rate of speed."

CQ: "Why did our military stand down and why were all those war games going on the day of the attacks?"
OR: "The military wasn't ordered to stand down, they were just caught off guard and the military practices all the time, so having a war game going on shouldn't be too surprising."

CQ: "Why were all of the four planes only about 25% full of capacity?"
OR: "The hijackers choose flights with the fewest passengers, so they would be easier for them to control."

CQ: "How was Hani Hanjour able to fly a Boeing 757 like an experienced jet fighter pilot into the Pentagon when his flight instructors said his flying skills sucked?"
OR: "Crashing a plane is not very hard to do. Taking off and landing a plane is the hard part and none of the hijackers were training to do that."

CQ: "Why is there no plane at the Pentagon, but all the passenger's remains were supposedly recovered there?"
OR: "The plane virtually disintegrated upon impact, but there were few parts that survived which are seen in photos and the passengers were identified by their DNA which only small amounts are needed to do so."

Ironically... the simplicity of OR shows the "official story" is a conspiracy.
How else do you explain so many coincidences?

So we can see that by applying this simple logical principle, there is no "leaping" here, only "drawing a logical conclusion" based on the answers presented to use from our government.

Maybe the "official story" should be labeled a "Coincidence Theory"?

< Message edited by zippz -- 7/13/2008 6:24:38 AM >

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Post #: 21

RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/13/2008 7:35:51 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Conspiracy Theories Explained
Random events are deeply meaningful to paranoid schizophrenics. Is something happening in their brains?
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20050125-000003.html

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000140.html
It made you feel important, like you knew something absolutely essential that very few others ever were privileged to know.
I wonder how likely it would have been for me to grab onto that sense of sudden empowerment, of being an initiate in some arcane club of hidden wisdom. I wonder what might have happened to me if being the Holder of Secret Knowledge had been my only source of self-esteem; the one redeeming landmark in a life of isolation and failure.

more
A Culture of Conspiracy: Apocalyptic Visions ... - by Michael Barkun
Empire of Conspiracy: The Culture of Paranoia ... - by Timothy Melley

< Message edited by Serge Birbrair -- 7/13/2008 7:41:54 AM >

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/13/2008 8:00:41 AM

zippz

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lol... gee serge what can i say...
you obviously know it all... just keep those blinders on
i don't see where paranoia plays a part here or even ego for that matter
maybe review the vids i pointed to...
instead of discrediting people you don't know anything about?
thank you for being a clear example of how ignorance breeds arrogance

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Post #: 23

RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/13/2008 8:10:30 AM

Serge Birbrair

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Back to the original post.
The USA banking problems spread beyong USA:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601213&sid=aRWlnRM8wAc8&refer=home

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/13/2008 11:00:32 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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Sadly you pretty much lost me on this one, what you think explains a conspiracy seems perfectly logical to me.
In fact many of the facts seemed in themselves irrelevant (e.g. how many people on the plane*), or patently false - the US military can't have been stood down since the Second World War, unless I misunderstand what it means: fighters were criss-crossing the skies (admittedly too late).
Given the whole world to look at and no limit to what may constitute a conspiracy I suspect you could find a potential one almost anywhere.
Anyway I'll continue to read the posts you wish to make, but so that we don't rile our fellow CTers more, I'll restrict my comments to when I actually have something factual to say (don't hold your breath).
All the best,
Colonel (retired) L.

* this comment refers only to the "conspiracy theory", obviously ever single person was loved and missed by many.

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/13/2008 11:07:28 AM

fingers

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well put. Thanks, Colonel

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/13/2008 11:45:29 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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But I hope zippz stays and gives us some of his other views and doesn't feel ostracized
He'll do doubt have some strong opinions.
L.

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/13/2008 12:29:32 PM

fingers

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Frankly Colonel, after reviewing many of his posts, I find very little mention as far as wine goes and nearly every message contains reference to 9/11. I would like his strong opinions to remain, but as it pertains to wine, not foil hats. It's not as if Serge doesn't throw some weird stuff our way, either. But (usually) he ties back to something that relates to the reason we're all here.

< Message edited by fingers -- 7/13/2008 12:31:25 PM >

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Post #: 28

RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/13/2008 1:58:29 PM

zippz

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What is going on with you guys?

With such replies, it's so obvious, no one watched the documentaries i linked to.
Doesn't seem fair, considering i've thoroughly checked out all of your links.

Fingers... i know the info scares you fingers... but in such matters often the truth is ugly... if you can't stand the heat then stick your head back in the sand instead of making such infantile exaggerations and moral high ground brouhaha... as twisted as it may seem to you... the 911 Truthers are the ones who have the high ground... you my friend "can't see the forest through the trees"... note because you can't... you just choose not to. Note: hate to point out the obvious here fingers but this thread is labeled NWR. Which i believe to mean Not Wine Related. As for making it sound like most of my posts are not wine related... why don't you double check the thread topics i have started and made contributions to?

Larry... if you ever do get around to watching these docs i've linked to... then please apply the OR to what you see... for what i see looks exactly like a controlled demolition and i have used OR to come to this conclusion. As for your issues with my examples in application, i see zero feedback/reflection on my point.

Blue... i still think you and Larry make the most thoughtful reply posts of all CTland... but if you'd try the tinfoil hat on... just long enough to review the docs i have provided links to, i think you'll find yourself derogatorilly labeling the "official story" as a "conspiracy theory" instead.

Serge... you throw all of these people in the loser loony bin...
130+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials 490+ Engineers and Architects 120+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals 260+ Professors Question 9/11 210+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members 140+ Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professionals...because they see so many holes in the official story, that it looks like swiss cheese? Who likes swiss cheese with their wine? Here's a virtual wine tasking challenge for everyone, take this virtual swiss cheese of a subject and enjoy digesting it with a case of wine... "a case" because you're going to need it. btw which wines do you think go best with swiss? (see finder, i can take any subject and bend it back to wine...just like serge)

< Message edited by zippz -- 7/13/2008 2:02:05 PM >

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RE: NWR: No place to hide - 7/13/2008 5:11:40 PM

Eric

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Guys, I would like to suggest that we limit the forum to at least avoid politics and conspiracy theories. I am sure there are more lively forums where such things can be debated, but I would rather it not be here.

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Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

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Post #: 30