New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are my target market!!

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New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are my t... - 11/21/2008 3:18:27 PM

smigdiggler

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Marin County, Ca
Status: offline

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have been working over this past year on making my own wine and i am putting the final touches on my first wine label for my Rose' I am also starting work on my website and wineblog that weill document the trials and tribulations of being a winemaker in this wacky world.

I am focused on Rhone style wines and my first label vintage release is a 2008 Premiere Rose which will be ~75% Grenache and 25% Carignan. ~80 cases.
I will have a 2009 Red rhone blend avialable in 2010 as well..more on that later.

If you are so inclined I would love to get some input from you on

what you like/dislike about the label?

What you look for in a winery specific website...what you dont like. I would also like to know if there any folks in the SFBay area that would be willing to do a preview tasting and help me in determining pricepoint. based on taste and appearance of the final product.

Ask any questions you like...I will eventually move this to my blog when it goes live, but I wanted to get something going in here first, if possible.

Thanks for viewing this.

Dave Smigielski
Novato, Ca

www.dacalier.com

_____________________________

Dacalier [da kah' lee ay] - noun; A gathering of friends enjoying fine wine.

http://wineblog.dacalier.com

Dacalier Wine Co.
Napa, Ca

Post #: 1

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/21/2008 3:30:40 PM

jhannah27

Posts: 523
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Anaheim, CA
Status: offline

The label is clean and simple, and I like that it gives the blend right up front. I will say however, that the white label with black script is, in my opinion, being overused right now (See Sea Smoke, Kutch, etc.). I am not one for overly colorful or cluttered labels, but perhaps some sort of small tasteful design? For example, perhaps incorporate the meaning of Dacalier, or something about the wine's place of origin subtly into the background.

I am no graphic designer...just throwing thoughts out there...

My main thing that I like to see on a winery's website is detailed information about the growing season, the crush, the fermentation process used, how long it saw oak (if at all), types of oak used, specifics about the blend (if applicable), when it was bottled, etc. Anything and everything you can talk about the "trip" the grapes took to become what is presented in the bottle is fascinating to me. I find that most producers don't give much of this info, or it's on the vague side if they do. I know the everyday drinker doesn't care about this, but even if you embed it as a link to a pdf file that breaks it down so that the page is less clutttered, I think that your more knowledgeable wine drinker will appreciate it.

Good luck with your new venture!! I only wish I was still up in San Francisco, I'd love to come talk to you about your rose.

< Message edited by jhannah27 -- 11/21/2008 3:38:58 PM >

_____________________________

"Quickly! Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever."
Aristophanes 450 - 385 b.c.

(in reply to smigdiggler)

Post #: 2

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/21/2008 4:30:09 PM

annerk

Posts: 252
Joined: 10/16/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: online

Change the black to an indigo blue or deep eggplant color. The black and white are stark and with no graphic look "arm's length." Or add a heavy inner/light outer border to make it more inviting and finished.

(in reply to jhannah27)

Post #: 3

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/21/2008 5:45:01 PM

smigdiggler

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Marin County, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jhannah27
perhaps some sort of small tasteful design? For example, perhaps incorporate the meaning of Dacalier, or something about the wine's place of origin subtly into the background.

My main thing that I like to see on a winery's website is detailed information about the growing season, the crush, the fermentation process used, how long it saw oak (if at all), types of oak used, specifics about the blend (if applicable), when it was bottled, etc. Anything and everything you can talk about the "trip" the grapes took to become what is presented in the bottle is fascinating to me. I find that most producers don't give much of this info, or it's on the vague side if they do. I know the everyday drinker doesn't care about this, but even if you embed it as a link to a pdf file that breaks it down so that the page is less clutttered, I think that your more knowledgeable wine drinker will appreciate it.

JH - thanks for the feedback. Dacalier is actually a made up word. We even made up the definition. see my signature.

I appreciate the information about all the details of the wine itself and its travels from vine to bottle. I really like that stuff as well. I am thinking of when the wine is finished to create a pdf one sheeter that gives all kinds of details like elevation of vineyard, and things like you stated above. I want the educated wine guy to want to taste my wine. We dont have a lot of it, Rose will be 80 cases and the Red will be ~350 cases.

< Message edited by smigdiggler -- 11/21/2008 5:48:14 PM >

_____________________________

Dacalier [da kah' lee ay] - noun; A gathering of friends enjoying fine wine.

http://wineblog.dacalier.com

Dacalier Wine Co.
Napa, Ca

(in reply to jhannah27)

Post #: 4

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/21/2008 5:47:13 PM

smigdiggler

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Marin County, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: annerk

Change the black to an indigo blue or deep eggplant color. The black and white are stark and with no graphic look "arm's length." Or add a heavy inner/light outer border to make it more inviting and finished.

I was trying to figure out what to do for a splash of color, I really like the inner/outer light border and may play around with that. I may have to get my blog up sooner and post options for people to vote for. Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it.
-dave

_____________________________

Dacalier [da kah' lee ay] - noun; A gathering of friends enjoying fine wine.

http://wineblog.dacalier.com

Dacalier Wine Co.
Napa, Ca

(in reply to annerk)

Post #: 5

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/22/2008 12:06:13 AM

Urban Nomad

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Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline

Can you provide a detailed tasting note for the juice in the bottle?

(in reply to smigdiggler)

Post #: 6

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/22/2008 12:50:51 AM

Colonel Lawrence

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline

Can't add a lot, but wish you well.
A little color would be good.
Rather than number of cases produced could you number the bottles?
L.

(in reply to Urban Nomad)

Post #: 7

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/22/2008 1:58:23 AM

Maestro

Posts: 560
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline

I am horrible with graphic design. All I can say is that I like simple and subtle.

But the Colonel is up to something of substance here. I know for a fact that numbering individual bottles on the label has a positive marketing effect. It has actually been measured by wineries here in Italy to have a positive impact on sales.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 8

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/22/2008 7:59:18 AM

smigdiggler

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Marin County, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence

Can't add a lot, but wish you well.
A little color would be good.
Rather than number of cases produced could you number the bottles?
L.

Both CL & Maestro and I are on the same wavelength. but let me explain about our plan.

1. We wanted to make a Rose all along so it wasnt an afterthought in the winemaking process, we even picked the grapes for the rose a week or two earlier from a specific block in the vineyard. But as we were talking to lots of wine people in the industry, we were talked into lowering or target price of the rose and thus we wanted to keep costs down. so we aren't planning on numbering bottles. But putting # of bottles produces instead of Cases has its merit and would pair up nicely with our Red
1.Red rhone blend will be about 300 cases or so, and we actually have the hand numbered bottles incorporated into our label. We have a higher price point and with the elegent/simple lable and a hand numbered bottle between the 4 of us we can hand number 4000 bottles (can you say hand cramps?) We will be hand numbering our Red Rhone Blend. e.g bottle 2345 of 3960. Enjoy! The numbers would be hand written with a deep red fine point permanent pen/marker

_____________________________

Dacalier [da kah' lee ay] - noun; A gathering of friends enjoying fine wine.

http://wineblog.dacalier.com

Dacalier Wine Co.
Napa, Ca

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 9

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/22/2008 8:05:04 AM

smigdiggler

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Marin County, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Urban Nomad

Can you provide a detailed tasting note for the juice in the bottle?

Urban - I don't have my notes with me, but from memory from an initial taste the GRE didnt yield as much fruit that we would have liked, but thats where the carignan came in and just brightened up pallate. right now it has a hints of tropical or maybe stone fruit on the nose and a nice strawberry on the pallate. We would like to think that this is not a one dimensional rose and has just a little bit of complexity to it. what we like the best so far is the overall mouthfeel. no astringent bite on the finish. We also submitted the Rose to the SF chronicle wine competition in February. fingers crossed that we do well enough to show at the event in Feb.

_____________________________

Dacalier [da kah' lee ay] - noun; A gathering of friends enjoying fine wine.

http://wineblog.dacalier.com

Dacalier Wine Co.
Napa, Ca

(in reply to Urban Nomad)

Post #: 10

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/22/2008 8:29:00 AM

pbm

Posts: 348
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: New Hope, Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Dave,

Thanks for asking and I'd echo the comments already made but add one thing. It always frustrates me to have to hunt for the vintage. It seems a bit lost on the label provided but, like the others, I'm no graphic designer. It could be a matter of font size or slightly different placement makes it a bit more apparent but definitely do not sacrifice the subtle/simple approach.

Relative to the website, again more agreement. That's where I go for detail. Seems like you can really cater to the wine geeks there. A single printable sheet is great when planning where to visit or what to buy. I really don't think the average consumer frequents them much so I don't think it would turn them off but perhaps I'm wrong.

And congrats on going for a Rhone blend...there need to be more of those from CA.

Unfortunately I live on the wrong coast for the preview tasting but I'd be there if I could.

Peter

_____________________________

PBM
"Never Sell Principle Short"
Dave O'Neal

(in reply to smigdiggler)

Post #: 11

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/22/2008 8:49:51 AM

annerk

Posts: 252
Joined: 10/16/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: smigdiggler

quote:

ORIGINAL: annerk

Change the black to an indigo blue or deep eggplant color. The black and white are stark and with no graphic look "arm's length." Or add a heavy inner/light outer border to make it more inviting and finished.

I was trying to figure out what to do for a splash of color, I really like the inner/outer light border and may play around with that. I may have to get my blog up sooner and post options for people to vote for. Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it.
-dave

Use gold for the border and vintage. It will add the color needed to keep it from looking like "No-Name Wine" and bring out the vintage at the same time.

(in reply to smigdiggler)

Post #: 12

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/22/2008 10:10:35 AM

RoundersRob

Posts: 735
Joined: 7/1/2006
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Status: offline

I think it looks good. As noted, black on white script is pretty common however it does look pretty good, which is probably why it is common. I do like that the varietal %s are on the label and can't agree more with Jeremy that having lots of details on your site about the trip from grape to glass is really nice. Good luck with the wine! Let us know where we can get some as it's always great to have some Rosé in the summer.

(in reply to annerk)

Post #: 13

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/22/2008 10:41:10 AM

Colonel Lawrence

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline

Agree wholeheartedly about vintage information.
My pet hate is restaurants that don't even list the vintage!

Glad there's red in the lineup: I struggle to overcome my Mateus and Anjou prejudices.

Like to here more about you plans/progress - there's more than a few on the Forum who would like to be doing what you are.

L.

(in reply to pbm)

Post #: 14

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/22/2008 11:07:35 AM

Maestro

Posts: 560
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline

And Dave, God bless you and good luck.

Making wine is so much hard work and yet it is a noble thing. I always had the desire to buy a vineyard but when I see how much effort my friends who own and work one have to put in order to make their wines I just sit in a corner quitely until the desire subsides.

You are a better man.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 15

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/23/2008 5:05:13 AM

Colonel Lawrence

Posts: 2093
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maestro

And Dave, God bless you and good luck.

Making wine is so much hard work and yet it is a noble thing. I always had the desire to buy a vineyard but when I see how much effort my friends who own and work one have to put in order to make their wines I just sit in a corner quitely until the desire subsides.

You are a better man.

Painful reminders of times gone bye.

"Tho' I've belted you and flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!"

Makes you remember what views were like just over a generation ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunga_Din

(in reply to Maestro)

Post #: 16

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/23/2008 9:21:51 AM

smigdiggler

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Marin County, Ca
Status: offline

Thanks again for the positive communications. I have been working on a few different versions of the label and will present them to the rest of the team.

1. a logo with sort of a starburtst or halo that tended to lend a 3 dimensional view of the label.
2. instead of changing up the logo to accomodate the vintage, i put a label together with the vintage in a deep burgandy. this added a pop of color that brought your eye to the vintage
3. I will also put in the back of the label, which includes the definition...Once i get the blog up, I would love to have you keep in contact.

-dave

_____________________________

Dacalier [da kah' lee ay] - noun; A gathering of friends enjoying fine wine.

http://wineblog.dacalier.com

Dacalier Wine Co.
Napa, Ca

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 17

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/23/2008 9:35:09 AM

annerk

Posts: 252
Joined: 10/16/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: online

We're all happy to help, Dave. You'll get our bills, payable in vino of course.

(in reply to smigdiggler)

Post #: 18

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/24/2008 4:21:14 PM

wadcorp

Posts: 115
Joined: 10/29/2008
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jhannah27

I am no graphic designer...just throwing thoughts out there...

Well, I am a graphic designer.

Have to agree with a number of the other posts, that the b&w, simple look is pretty hammered.

I might add a glyph to either side of the "Premier Rosé" type, or perhaps a bit of a border at the top or bottom of the label. The suggestion of color is a good one. Nothing too garish. Perhaps even a warm grey.

High marks for not using a huge variety of fonts, which seems to happen way too much. Use just one or two, with various weights & all is good.

Any embossing on the label?

.

_____________________________

"Wine is light held together by moisture."
— Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer (1564-1642)

(in reply to jhannah27)

Post #: 19

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/25/2008 7:49:12 PM

smigdiggler

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Marin County, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wadcorp

Well, I am a graphic designer.

Have to agree with a number of the other posts, that the b&w, simple look is pretty hammered.

I might add a glyph to either side of the "Premier Rosé" type, or perhaps a bit of a border at the top or bottom of the label. The suggestion of color is a good one. Nothing too garish. Perhaps even a warm grey.
High marks for not using a huge variety of fonts, which seems to happen way too much. Use just one or two, with various weights & all is good.
Any embossing on the label?

Thanks for the feedback. Please go back to the site and see the next iteration of our front label and i added the back of the label as well.
I have some other typographical tweaks, based on the final size, but this pretty much what we feel is a great front label and a back label that is good.

I love the feedback, keep it coming.

_____________________________

Dacalier [da kah' lee ay] - noun; A gathering of friends enjoying fine wine.

http://wineblog.dacalier.com

Dacalier Wine Co.
Napa, Ca

(in reply to wadcorp)

Post #: 20

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/25/2008 8:00:06 PM

RoundersRob

Posts: 735
Joined: 7/1/2006
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Status: offline

Nice - although that whole "page hosted free by goDaddy" stuff is a little bit annoying.

Fortunately, I run a small hosting biz with a few webservers. I wouldn't mind hosting your site in exchange for a bottle or two of your stuff.

PM me if you are interested.

(in reply to smigdiggler)

Post #: 21

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/26/2008 4:14:11 AM

annerk

Posts: 252
Joined: 10/16/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: online

My site is on godaddy and I don't have those "page hosted by" links or icons...

(in reply to RoundersRob)

Post #: 22

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/26/2008 4:17:19 AM

annerk

Posts: 252
Joined: 10/16/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: smigdiggler

Thanks for the feedback. Please go back to the site and see the next iteration of our front label and i added the back of the label as well.
I have some other typographical tweaks, based on the final size, but this pretty much what we feel is a great front label and a back label that is good.

I love the feedback, keep it coming.

You've got an aliasing problem on the text now. It wasn't there before. How did you impose the text over the graphic?

Other than that I like it a lot more now.

(in reply to smigdiggler)

Post #: 23

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/26/2008 6:58:03 AM

smigdiggler

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Marin County, Ca
Status: offline

Rounders. I wasnt sure i would like Go daddy's website tonight program and their blog program, so you get it free. if I like it and decide to take my blog and website "live" with it, then I will pay for it and the Ads disappear.

my budget is slim so its hard labor and use whats free for now.

_____________________________

Dacalier [da kah' lee ay] - noun; A gathering of friends enjoying fine wine.

http://wineblog.dacalier.com

Dacalier Wine Co.
Napa, Ca

(in reply to RoundersRob)

Post #: 24

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/26/2008 7:00:23 AM

smigdiggler

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Marin County, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: annerk

You've got an aliasing problem on the text now. It wasn't there before. How did you impose the text over the graphic?

Other than that I like it a lot more now.

Yeah, I was in a hurry last night and Instead of reducing the size of the jpeg in illustrator, i reduced the size on the website just to get it up there. Sorry about the aliasing guys. I will see if I can get it repaired this morning before the boss comes in.

_____________________________

Dacalier [da kah' lee ay] - noun; A gathering of friends enjoying fine wine.

http://wineblog.dacalier.com

Dacalier Wine Co.
Napa, Ca

(in reply to annerk)

Post #: 25

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/26/2008 8:43:37 AM

jhannah27

Posts: 523
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Anaheim, CA
Status: offline

Agreed. The label is much improved and now I think it's a bit more distinct. Amazing what such a simple change can do.

_____________________________

"Quickly! Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever."
Aristophanes 450 - 385 b.c.

(in reply to smigdiggler)

Post #: 26

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/26/2008 8:45:37 AM

RoundersRob

Posts: 735
Joined: 7/1/2006
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smigdiggler

Rounders. I wasnt sure i would like Go daddy's website tonight program and their blog program, so you get it free. if I like it and decide to take my blog and website "live" with it, then I will pay for it and the Ads disappear.

my budget is slim so its hard labor and use whats free for now.

That makes sense.

(in reply to smigdiggler)

Post #: 27

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/26/2008 8:53:11 AM

smigdiggler

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Marin County, Ca
Status: offline

Any thoughts, comments on the back label? If the front draws you in, and you pick up the bottle and look at the back, do I lose you there?

Do you put the bottle back? If so why?

What if the shelf talker told you it was 15.99 at your favorite high end wine shop?

_____________________________

Dacalier [da kah' lee ay] - noun; A gathering of friends enjoying fine wine.

http://wineblog.dacalier.com

Dacalier Wine Co.
Napa, Ca

(in reply to RoundersRob)

Post #: 28

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/26/2008 9:02:08 AM

annerk

Posts: 252
Joined: 10/16/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: online

I'm not big on the ALL CAPS and font used for the Government Warning section. If you have to use ALL CAPS at least switch to a san serif font like Ariel or Helvetica.

Re the shelf talker, I'm not particularly influenced by shelf talkers, but I know a lot of people are.

(in reply to smigdiggler)

Post #: 29

RE: New Winery - Need input & local tasters. You are ... - 11/26/2008 9:08:15 AM

smigdiggler

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/15/2006
From: Marin County, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: annerk

I'm not big on the ALL CAPS and font used for the Government Warning section. If you have to use ALL CAPS at least switch to a san serif font like Ariel or Helvetica.

Re the shelf talker, I'm not particularly influenced by shelf talkers, but I know a lot of people are.

The TTB (big brotha) requires all caps, but it could be san serif. I used the same font as the definition of Dacalier, only to keep the # of fonts to a minimum, but I see your point.

Thanks

_____________________________

Dacalier [da kah' lee ay] - noun; A gathering of friends enjoying fine wine.

http://wineblog.dacalier.com

Dacalier Wine Co.
Napa, Ca

(in reply to annerk)

Post #: 30