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No Tasting Notes - 11/16/2008 7:26:51 PM

DoubleD1969

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline

I realize this is my first post, but it's just a pet peeve that people provide ratings on wines with no tasting notes. What gives? I guess people are trying to sell their wines and feel compelled to bump up the ratings because it will sell faster. I would rather not give a rating if I can't give a reason as to why I rated a certain way.

Post #: 1

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/16/2008 7:42:42 PM

fingers

Posts: 731
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: online

Here are several threads that deal with your concern:

http://www.cellartracker.com/forum/searchpro.asp?phrase=notes+scores&author=&forumid=5&topicreply=topic&message=body&timeframe=%3E&timefilter=0&language=single&top=300&criteria=AND&minRank=0&sortMethod=r&submitbutton=+OK+

I think you'll notice that the general concensus agrees with your assertion. :)

(in reply to DoubleD1969)

Post #: 2

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/16/2008 8:38:48 PM

JohnNezlek

Posts: 218
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: Gloucester, Virginia
Status: offline

Dear DD1969,

Welcome aboard. Sure scores are better with TNS than without, but some numbers speak for themselves (e.g., 75 and 95). I try to make certain to post a TN (and do pretty much all the time, I think), but some may not feel confident or knowledgeable enough to do so, and so they provide a number to indicate a glabal rating.

Anyway, I look forward to your participation (TNs or not

).

John

_____________________________

Too many wines, too little time.

(in reply to fingers)

Post #: 3

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/16/2008 10:22:25 PM

DoubleD1969

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline

Thanks John, I'm looking forward to being more active on this site since the tracking software is great -- for its functionalities and people's tasting notes.

I understand that people may not be comfortable with describing what they are drinking. But I think we should try to encourage more people to try if this is the case. Sometimes, a person may be at a party or large tasting event and didn't really take notes -- which is perfectly acceptable. If this is the situation, then write a tasting note in this context or just provide your impressions (which I sometimes do).

I mean I am a relative newbie myself, and I still have trouble identifying what I am smelling and tasting. What I smell as strawberries could be cherries to someone else, or if I say I'm tasting black olives, another person may think tar. That's the beauty of this hobby. It's so subjective that no one should feel embarassed to describe what they just experienced.

The bottom line is that I think people should try to make more of an effort to provide a TN in addition to the score. If it's not for the benefit of other members, it should help with the person's knowledge and appreciation of the wine. A 75 tells me very little actually because I don't know if the wine was paired so poorly with food or if the wine was cooked during shipment. Vice versa, a 95 does no good for me either because I don't know if the person loves high-alcohol with gobs-of-fruit type wine.

Alright, I think it's past my forum posting bedtime and may get myself in more trouble. Not a great way to introduce myself.

DoubleD

(in reply to JohnNezlek)

Post #: 4

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/17/2008 3:00:42 AM

NiklasW

Posts: 509
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Finland
Status: online

You got it DoubleD! I think you'll find most of us here will agree with you 100%. Welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy the talk (both wine and nonwine) here!

(in reply to DoubleD1969)

Post #: 5

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/17/2008 4:11:49 AM

pjaines

Posts: 921
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: online

DD - you are right with regards to scores with no notes. They are meaningless.

As for your own impressions on tasting - there are no wrong opinions. That is why I love this forum and the tasting notes - a wide array of strong opinions - I trust the collective opinions of this site much more than the single opinion of the "experts"

_____________________________

-- Paul

(in reply to NiklasW)

Post #: 6

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/17/2008 5:12:29 AM

JohnNezlek

Posts: 218
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: Gloucester, Virginia
Status: offline

Paul,

Meaningless -- oh, you are such a demanding taskmster

John

_____________________________

Too many wines, too little time.

(in reply to pjaines)

Post #: 7

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/17/2008 5:27:09 AM

pjaines

Posts: 921
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: online

John - you gotta call it as you see it sometimes.

I guess what I am trying to say is that without comments there is no context to pin the score to.

_____________________________

-- Paul

(in reply to JohnNezlek)

Post #: 8

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/17/2008 5:49:28 AM

JohnNezlek

Posts: 218
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: Gloucester, Virginia
Status: offline

Paul,

Fair enough. But as a statistically inclined person, the collection of numbers does have meaning to me, particularly when trying to make QPR style judgments. Given a choice, I perfer both, although if I had to make a choice, I would go with TNs rather than points. This is why I tend to prefer UK wine critics over US wine critics (e.g., Johnson and Robinson over Parker and Suckling). Also, the 100 point scale is a farce. I think Johnson (no slouch when it comes to wine writing) uses a 4-star system (with the possibility of emphasis and 0) producing a fucntional 9-point scale. Nevertheless, it is his concise prose that is most compelling.

My concern about too many TNs is that they seem to be entries for a first year creative writing class. The search for subtlety triumphs good, old-fashioned commonsense.

Oh well, I do need to provide some comments on a paper a colleague and I are writing. Good thing this is the only blog (wine or otherwise) that I follow.

By the way, any softening of prices in the UK as a result of the downturn? I noticed you picked up a '95 Simard for what wouild be a decent UK price. Nice bottle. Just had one myself.

Cheers,

John

_____________________________

Too many wines, too little time.

(in reply to pjaines)

Post #: 9

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/17/2008 7:25:10 AM

pjaines

Posts: 921
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: online

John,

I guess the statistics are fine so long as people use the scale in the same, consistent manner but there are huge variations. To some people an 88 point wine is barely drinkable, whereas to others (like myself) an 82 is a good wine. I mark my tasting notes quite low compared to others – this creates the impression that if you looked just at my scores that I have drunk some bad wine. That is not the case though, and I try and add context within the note, usually wrapping up with comments such as “Overall very good” etc.

I guess my brain is wired slightly differently from yours in that I look at the comments on CT and the “soft, fuzzy and intangible” elements of a wine that a score does not give. I do take note of the scores, but I am more often these days writing notes without scores, although I keep making exceptions.

As for the softening of prices in the UK – hard to say at the moment. I don’t see much difference in prices, but I tend to buy my wines from retail places and the internet rather than fine wine stores. I have started to notice a few reductions on the medium level wines (£20-£40) here and there. The Simard I actually bought in a local supermarket – I had never had it before. Sometimes supermarkets over here get a batch of wine that pretty much has to be drunk within the next few months before it goes into terminal decline. I think that is what happened with the Simard.

_____________________________

-- Paul

(in reply to JohnNezlek)

Post #: 10

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/17/2008 7:50:00 AM

JohnNezlek

Posts: 218
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: Gloucester, Virginia
Status: offline

Paul,

I think Simard is a chateau that holds its wines for quite some time before release.
http://www.cellarnotes.net/chateau_simard.html

So, it's difficult to get a truly recent vintage. Nice idea though -- having them age the wine for you.

Cheers,

John

_____________________________

Too many wines, too little time.

(in reply to pjaines)

Post #: 11

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/17/2008 8:04:35 AM

pjaines

Posts: 921
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: online

It is quite a good idea, but must cost them quite a bit of money. At least you know people are not going to destroy your wine by drinking it too young.

_____________________________

-- Paul

(in reply to JohnNezlek)

Post #: 12

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/17/2008 9:02:27 AM

jamscreator

Posts: 319
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Indiana USA
Status: offline

DoubleD - Welcome aboard. Yep, this discussion and been thrown around many times. I've always been a strong supporter in "notes over numbers" - especially as far as the CT users go. Welcome aboard and thanks for your input!

(in reply to pjaines)

Post #: 13

RE: No Tasting Notes - 11/17/2008 2:19:05 PM

rbazinet

Posts: 188
Joined: 4/13/2008
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline

Welcome to the forum.
However, I must warn you although you may here all opinions are welcome, or there is no “wrong” review, we do get a chuckle out of some: http://www.cellartracker.com/forum/Tasting_Notes_To_Note/m_23529/tm.htm

Enjoy!

(in reply to jamscreator)

Post #: 14