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Ornellaia - 6/2/2008 2:44:22 AM   
Maestro

 

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This was originally posted in another thread, but I thought it might be useful in its own right here:


Tenuta dell'Ornelaia -- the Wines

If you go back to our Italian Red Wine 101 discussion, you will rememeber that there are 5 categories of collectible Italian reds, of which one is the "Super-Tuscans".

Well, Tenuta dell'Ornellaia is a leading estate in the Super-Tuscan game.

Their wines are:

> The "Ornellaia" -- that is the flagship product. A Bordeaux-like blend (the 2004 is 60 % CABERNET SAUVIGNON, 20 % CABERNET FRANC, 15 % MERLOT, 5 % PETIT VERDOT). It is one of the "trophy" wines of Italy.

> The "Masseto" -- Italy's challenge to Petrus as a 100% Merlot super-wine.

> The "Le Serre Nuove" (The "New Hills") -- A kind of "second wine" of the Ornellaia, made from younger vines in a new plot. (The 2004 is 40 % CABERNET SAUVIGNON, 40 % MERLOT, 15 % CABERNET FRANC, 5 % PETIT VERDOT.) This delivers astonishing value and it is a great way to experience Tenuta dell'Ornellaia at reasonable prices.

> The "Le Volte" -- The only Tenuta dell'Ornellaia wine to include Tuscany's traditional variety "Sangiovese" (the one used in Brunello and Chianti). The 2005 is 50 % SANGIOVESE, 35 % MERLOT, 15 % CABERNET SAUVIGNON.

All these wines will carry the words "Tenuta dell'Ornellaia Bolgheri" in their name, as they are all produced by "Tenuta dell'Ornellaia" in the region of Bolgheri, Tuscany.

The 2004 vintage was fantastic in Tuscany. Tuscany had 3 great vintages in the last 12 years: 1997, 2001, and 2004. After tasting many wines, my preference is in this order: 2004, 1997, and 2001. I may need to swallow my words as the '04s are very young to judge, but I think 2004 will be the greatest of the three vintages.

The only thing I didn't understand was the prices you were talking about. The 2004 Masseto I can't find anymore in my local merchant, but the 2004 Ornellaia costs about $130 per bottle. The 2004 Le Serre Nuove costs about $50 and it delivers great value.


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RE: Ornellaia - 6/2/2008 4:30:58 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

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Thanks Maestro, I'm still trying to absorb key info about great Italian reds.
It's taking some absorbing as I've never drunk them and haven't seen too many.
I am now going to start acquiring some so that I can experience them firsthand.
Your continued assistance is welcomed.
Cheers,
L.

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RE: Ornellaia - 6/2/2008 6:44:10 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

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I can buy :




2005

Ornellaia, Antinori, Ludovic
@ 800 pounds per case in bond.  That's about 80 pounds per bottle fully taxed (about $156).
Thoughts?

I'm certainly finding tracking down the good Italian wines harder than my normal French, guess it's just inexperience.
Any tips gratefully recieved.
L.

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RE: Ornellaia - 6/2/2008 7:02:10 AM   
cgrimes

 

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Colonel,
Ornellaia is going for about $140-150 in stores in NE.  I've never bought it but have tasted it twice and found it to be excellent.  Is it worth the money to me?  I'm on the fence about that...
Craig

Maestro, 
As someone who knows and loves Italian wine, what do you think about these Super Tuscans (broad category, I know)?  My impression is that they are very well-made somewhat seductive wines but I have trouble putting up the money for them when I would easily spend more on a classified Bordeaux.  My hesitancy, I think, is more related to my relative inexperience with these wines (have only ever tried them on the young side), than with any quality deficiencies.  Many say they are wines without a sense of place created for the international market.  This sounds profound, but I would venture there are only a handful of people  who have the ability to distinguish a "sense of place"--the rest are just pontificating.

< Message edited by cgrimes -- 6/2/2008 7:37:27 AM >

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RE: Ornellaia - 6/2/2008 7:30:55 AM   
Maestro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence

I can buy :

2005

Ornellaia, Antinori, Ludovic
@ 800 pounds per case in bond.  That's about 80 pounds per bottle fully taxed (about $156).
Thoughts?

I'm certainly finding tracking down the good Italian wines harder than my normal French, guess it's just inexperience.
Any tips gratefully recieved.
L.



The 2005 is Ornellaia's 20th Anniversary Vintage and it is a very good wine. Your price is about $20-30 higher than in Italy, and since we don't tax wine and Ornellaia is a local product, it does not seem to be a bad price.

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RE: Ornellaia - 6/2/2008 7:40:41 AM   
cgrimes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maestro

The 2005 is Ornellaia's 20th Anniversary Vintage and it is a very good wine. Your price is about $20-30 higher than in Italy, and since we don't tax wine and Ornellaia is a local product, it does not seem to be a bad price.


Maestro,  See my edited post above.  I'm interested in your impressions on the ST's.

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RE: Ornellaia - 6/2/2008 8:52:12 AM   
Eric

 

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I haven't had much Ornellaia (the flagship) since the mid-90's vintages, but they are delicious Bordeaux blends. Have never had the Massetto but have heard wonderful things.


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-Eric LeVine

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RE: Ornellaia - 6/3/2008 3:54:17 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

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I'll see if I can get a touch off the price (always worth asking) and see if I can get close to the Italian price.
Thanks all.
L.

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RE: Ornellaia - 6/3/2008 11:34:27 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

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Still awaiting to hear about the Ornellaia 2005.
The dealer claimed to have 10 cases but they seem to have disappeared
So while waiting I bought my first 2007 -
Yes it's Leoville Barton, in spite of RP.
Go Antony!
L.

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RE: Ornellaia - 6/4/2008 5:27:32 AM   
Maestro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes
Maestro, 
As someone who knows and loves Italian wine, what do you think about these Super Tuscans (broad category, I know)?  My impression is that they are very well-made somewhat seductive wines but I have trouble putting up the money for them when I would easily spend more on a classified Bordeaux.  My hesitancy, I think, is more related to my relative inexperience with these wines (have only ever tried them on the young side), than with any quality deficiencies.  Many say they are wines without a sense of place created for the international market.  This sounds profound, but I would venture there are only a handful of people  who have the ability to distinguish a "sense of place"--the rest are just pontificating.


Well, it depends on how much one values this mistical "sense of place".

Tuscany is a wonderful place to grow vines and make wine. One of the best places on Earth, for that matter. I am more interested in having access to great wines than in the "sense of place", but to be fair to Tuscan producers, I think they deliver both.

Firstly, I think Tuscan wines do have their own terroir which differs significantly from Bordeaux's. It is the same situation with the Napa Valley, for instance. In Napa, producers blend the Bordeaux varieties into some wonderful wines (some people call those wines "Meritage"). They share some of the varietal characteristics of Bordeaux wines, but I do think they have a sense of place imparted by the Napa terroir and by the differences in winemaking. The same is true of the Super-Tuscans.

Furthermore, Tuscany does have its signature varietal, "Sangiovese", and that goes into the blend of many Super-Tuscans. When Sangiovese is in the blend, you get not only the difference in Terroir, but also a significant difference in Varietal character.

And, of course, if you are purist and value the "sense of place" more than anything else, you can always buy Brunello di Montalcino. One sip of a good Brunello and you are transported to the Tuscan hills immediately.

I think many Super-Tuscans do not resemble Bordeaux at all. Take Tignanello, for instance. It has enormous character and "sense of place". (The 2005, for instance, is 80% SANGIOVESE, 15% CABERNET SAUVIGNON, and 5% CABERNET FRANC). I think it is a great wine and a collectible for sure.

Of course there are Super-Tuscans that emulate Bordeaux more closely, like the Ornellaia and the Sassicaia. These wines could, in a blind tasting, be mistaken for Bordeaux -- although I usually spot them to be Tuscan wines. (In a recent blind tasting of 2004 wines from Tuscany I though that the Sassicaia was the ringer, which we knew to be a Meritage from Napa.)

So all in all I think many Super-Tuscans are great wines and I do believe they show their terroir too. And I think they can compete rather well on price/performance with both Claret and Meritage.

As a final disclaimer, though, I have a passion for Brunello, and that wine outnumbers my purchases of SuperTuscans on a 4-1 basis. So maybe I am more of a purist then I thought...

(in reply to cgrimes)
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RE: Ornellaia - 6/5/2008 8:34:03 AM   
Wrighty

 

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I've been lucky enough to have a few older bottles and a few from the 90's.  Was impressed with the elegance they showed in age and would agree that generally the ST's are noticeably different from Bordeaux.  The first ST I was aware of was the 1997 Solaia and while I've never had the chance to try the other vintages I have had disappointed.  Sassicaia on the other hand hasn't.

My overall impression would be that they are not as bold as their French cousins and probably carry a little more elegance and shyness about them - a younger, less confident sister but with great beauty?

Still haven't decided whether to get the Ornellaia 04's though!

Wrighty

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Post #: 11
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