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Terroir vs. Technology - 3/9/2008 8:26:19 AM   
Maestro

 

Posts: 521
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		This is one of the hottest discussion topics amongst wine enthusiasts and it seems like we haven't had a go at it here in the CT community for a while.

So: do you think terroir is everything or do you thing that the workmanship of a gifted winemaker can turn any plot in, say, New Jersey (no offense) into a great place for winemaking?...

I believe terroir matters a great deal, but workmanship is just as crucial... Not a very conclusive answer, I know, but I do believe it is 50/50...
Post #: 1
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/9/2008 9:03:27 AM   
Kazappa

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 3/8/2008
Status: offline 		I agree with your assessment that the skill of the winemaker contributes a great deal to the wine.  I recently learned that some French juice is exported to California, and made into wine there.  Talk about confusing the issue!  I believe that technology is capable of helping out a lot, but without terroir and a talented winegrower, we'd wind up with a whole lot of identical wines.

(in reply to Maestro)
Post #: 2
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/9/2008 10:01:32 AM   
knarf

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 12/21/2007
Status: offline 		I doubt it is 50-50. A great wine maker will do better with a sub-par vintage...perhaps even make drinkable wine with some sort or grape grown in NJ. But terrior is everything when considering grape varietals. There is no way, for example, that a great Burgundian wine maker will make a passable red burgundy with pinot grown in New Jersey.

(in reply to Maestro)
Post #: 3
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/10/2008 3:36:32 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		It's relatively easy to prove that both are critically important.
There are numerous French Chateaux that have, for example over years, produced good wine, then lousy wine, and then excellent wine; the variation coming from the owner and his/her asprirations/abilities.
Equally we can see some vinyards over hundreds of years consistently beating their neighbours hands down - just through favourably positioned vines and some gravel!


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Post #: 4
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/10/2008 1:51:12 PM   
jamscreator

 

Posts: 313
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Indiana USA
Status: offline 		My two cents:

I'd love to see two wineries exchange fruit - California and New York or California and somewhere in France.  I'd bet they could each work magical wonders out of each other's fruit.  Although terroir is important, I believe that the most important thing is what the winemaker does with the wine, the way they manipulate it with their skill and technology.  Again, my two cents.

_____________________________

Jeff Lawson

"Drink what you like, and like what you drink."
-Robert Mondavi

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 5
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/11/2008 4:36:28 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Not sure I'd go that far Jeff, otherwise you'd have a lot more consistently brilliant wine from around the world, and while wines are clearly better on average I'm not sure that the very, very, best of wines are better now, than in say 1929.
I'd be interested in whether CTers think the great wines of the past are greater now, than then?
We need some very old posters to come forward, anyone around in '29?
I guess even Parkers not that old

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Post #: 6
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/11/2008 4:40:05 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		I forgot your good idea about swapping fruit.
This is not quite the same, but it's fun:
There is a minor (1855) Bordeaux Chateau that is getting a different winemaking superstar to concoct there wine each year (just started).
Now for the life of me I can't remember who it is - help ....................!


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First they came for ....................

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Post #: 7
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/11/2008 4:41:26 AM   
Maestro

 

Posts: 521
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence

I forgot your good idea about swapping fruit.
This is not quite the same, but it's fun:
There is a minor (1855) Bordeaux Chateau that is getting a different winemaking superstar to concoct there wine each year (just started).
Now for the life of me I can't remember who it is - help ....................!




Château d'Arsac

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 8
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/11/2008 5:17:28 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Now we know why he's The Maestro!

Ta!

(in reply to Maestro)
Post #: 9
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/12/2008 8:32:16 AM   
esb

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 1/17/2008
From: Bend, Oregon
Status: offline 		I think creating wine is a steady continuum from planting the vineyard to pulling the cork at the table. Everything matters. It's impossible to assign a certain percentage of importance to one aspect of the journey. I know this doesn't do much to fuel the fire.

Wine is an agricultural product. Nature ultimately prevails.

For more perspective, walk Scarrone or The Old Hill Ranch.

Does anyone dig in the dirt anymore? What's the role of the winemaker? I think some have an office in the PR department. I'm not buying wine from any winemaker who poses in WS, red faced, clad in a ridiculous Hawaiian print shirt. (sorry - may be filed in the bin labeled "off track rant - little or no relevance")

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 10
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/12/2008 11:16:00 AM   
GalvezGuy

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline 		Terroir matters.  A Cab from Rutherford tastes unlike a cab from anywhere else regardless of who makes it.  Pinot Noir is different from different tracts, even with the same winemaker.  My point here is to not discount winemaking entirely, there are obvious examples out there of great fruit with bad technique and lesser fruit with good technique.  There primary reason that top producers are at the top of the heap every year, is that they have better land.  As esb stated, this is a agricultural product.  We don't expect sweet corn grown in Texas to be as flavorful as sweet corn grown in Illinois, the soil in Texas is not as suited for that purpose.

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(in reply to esb)
Post #: 11
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/12/2008 12:09:00 PM   
fingers

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline 		Posed this question to the Master Sommelier at my culinary institute.  His response is that most (meaning nearly all) MS's, MW's,  and judging panels use the "STGT" rule.  STGT means "Soil To Glass Transfer" and unless the wine reflects terroir appropriately it will be downgraded.  If this can be acheived by some manipulation of wine by the maker, congratulations to him/her.  Also, remember many winemakers are not growers and more credence is allotted to the dirt, climate, and other factors by the experts.  In other words, expert opinion is terroir over tech.

(in reply to GalvezGuy)
Post #: 12
RE: Terroir vs. Technology - 3/12/2008 11:30:18 PM   
NiklasW

 

Posts: 435
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Finland
Status: offline 		This is of course a many tiered question. Terroir must be very important, or why would the wine growing areas in eg France (where there has been enough time to experiment) be so scattered and few (relative to the size of the country)? But then at the level of a single area, the role of the winemaker steps in, or why would neighbouring vineyards be of so different quality in eg Bordeaux? So my view is that first terroir tells us what can be grown where, then winemaker tells us how to make to most of that which grows here. (if you see what I mean).

(in reply to fingers)
Post #: 13
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