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decanting - 2/29/2008 6:55:00 PM

hoosto

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This might be a silly question, but here goes: If I am willing to decant a wine for 48 hours (which I know means it's probably too young to drink now, but just can't wait), should I put in an open or closed decanter? Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Post #: 1

RE: decanting - 3/1/2008 12:22:09 AM

Maestro

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I have experimented with both and my preference is -- provided that the decanter is large enough -- to close the top of the decanter with a table napkin or something like that. In my experience it reduces significantly the chances of a wine "going dumb" in a long aeration process.

(in reply to hoosto)

Post #: 2

RE: decanting - 3/1/2008 5:41:19 AM

berettafan

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If you had 2 decanters available it would be interesting to do it both ways (though a larger % by volume of the wine would be exposed to the air) and report the differences.

Being new to the wine thing i gotta say decanting has been the biggest mystery to me. I've had wines that are better, worse or just different on day 2. And that's in a corked bottle; who knows what a decanter would do to things!

(in reply to Maestro)

Post #: 3

RE: decanting - 3/1/2008 5:53:11 AM

jamscreator

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Personally, I would never consider decanting a young wine for 48 hours. Old vintage ports, definitely. I agree with the previous statement that if you are going to decant for 48 hours, you should use a large decanter with adequate air space and a closed or covered top. If decanting for just a couple of hours, I would recommend an open decanter. FYI, opening a bottle of wine for a couple of hours does not do the same for a wine as a decanter.

_____________________________

Jeff Lawson

"Drink what you like, and like what you drink."
-Robert Mondavi

(in reply to berettafan)

Post #: 4

RE: decanting - 3/1/2008 5:58:39 AM

berettafan

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Jeff-
Would it be a reasonable experiment to decant 1/2 of a bottle in an open decanter and leave the rest in the bottle uncovered; both for a few hours?

Erik

Sorry for the hijack...

(in reply to jamscreator)

Post #: 5

RE: decanting - 3/1/2008 6:03:39 AM

jamscreator

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Absolutely. Let us know how it turns out.

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Jeff Lawson

"Drink what you like, and like what you drink."
-Robert Mondavi

(in reply to berettafan)

Post #: 6

RE: decanting - 3/1/2008 7:25:51 AM

hoosto

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Thanks for all the input. I'm going to try half in the decanter and half in the bottle uncovered and I'll let you know what happens. The reason I'm considering (around) 48 hours is because somebody else did the same with this specific wine that I am anxious to try. (I have a few more bottles that I will age properly.) Thanks again!

(in reply to hoosto)

Post #: 7

RE: decanting - 3/1/2008 11:36:57 AM

Maestro

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If a red wine is way too young but you can't wait, the tried-and-true method is "double-decanting".

1) Pour the wine into a decanter and let it aerate for 3-6 hours.
2) Pour the wine back into the bottle and re-cork it. Ideally, taste a glass of the wine before doing it, so there is more space for air in the bottle. That will also give you a comparison pointer for the next day.
3) Put the wine back into the cellar through the night.
4) Reopen the next day.

I use this process to get a sense of wines that will need to age for 15+ years, such as great Barolo or great Bordeaux. It works well as far as "opening the wine a little bit for inspection" goes, but it is by no means comparable to actually aging the thing.

(in reply to hoosto)

Post #: 8

RE: decanting - 3/1/2008 12:43:52 PM

hoosto

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Another interesting idea! I'll try that. Thanks.

(in reply to Maestro)

Post #: 9

RE: decanting - 3/1/2008 1:09:53 PM

jamscreator

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hoosto -

Further info on decanting. Decanting is not meant only to aerate the wine, but also to leave sediment behind that may be in the bottom of the bottle, especially in older wines. The quote below is from the Riedel web site (www.riedel.com) and I've always thought it made great sense (although I admit that I often "pop and pour"). By the way, I think I forgot to say earlier welcome to the Forum! Glad to have you with us.

"I prefer to decant wines, both young and old. It is a sign of respect for old wines and a sign of confidence in young wines."

< Message edited by jamscreator -- 3/1/2008 1:10:31 PM >

_____________________________

Jeff Lawson

"Drink what you like, and like what you drink."
-Robert Mondavi

(in reply to hoosto)

Post #: 10

RE: decanting - 3/2/2008 4:09:44 PM

hoosto

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Jeff, thanks for all of your input, and your gracious welcome. I've decanted, "re-canted", and decanted once again, per maestro's suggestion. 24 hours later, I have a different bottle of wine which, by the way, is an '05 Blackbird Proprietary Red. When I first re-opened the bottle its nose and taste were much the same as I had remembered from yesterday, but a mere 20 minutes later it opened up like it hadn't the night before. I'm not (yet) a very elaborate taster, but most of the tanins have softened and I can taste all the fruit. I'm very excited to try this again, when it is truly ready. Thank you all for the help.

(in reply to jamscreator)

Post #: 11

RE: decanting - 3/2/2008 4:51:41 PM

1800kidney

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From: Birmingham, AL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maestro

I have experimented with both and my preference is -- provided that the decanter is large enough -- to close the top of the decanter with a table napkin or something like that. In my experience it reduces significantly the chances of a wine "going dumb" in a long aeration process.

quote:

. In my experience it reduces significantly the chances of a wine "going dumb" in a long aeration process.

Definitely cover...reduces the chances of bugs going dumb too...what a way to go

(in reply to Maestro)

Post #: 12

RE: decanting - 3/2/2008 5:42:20 PM

jamscreator

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Bugs? Hmm, never thought of that. But I rarely decant for more than a couple of hours. You're right - cover if leaving out at length.

While we're speaking of decanting, lets get into everyone's favorite type of decanters. Anyone? I currently have cheap-o decanters. Going to get a Riedel soon, like I did the port glasses. I'm sure it will make a difference, just as the glasses do! I'm sure the Colonel will have some input.

<yelling> "Hey, Colonel!"

_____________________________

Jeff Lawson

"Drink what you like, and like what you drink."
-Robert Mondavi

(in reply to 1800kidney)

Post #: 13

RE: decanting - 3/2/2008 8:00:35 PM

bschwindtcoffee

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From: Portland, OR
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I was reading the NY times' blog "The Pour" by Eric Asimov and he recomened a 2000mL earlimier (sp?) flask. So I went to a local scientific supply store and purchased a couple. at $15 I could not complain so I also purchased two glass funnels. These brand new things are just as clean as any wine shop, but the paraniod person that I am, I washed each for about 20 min.

Here is Asimov's blog: http://thepour.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/from-lab-to-table/

The funnels at least are great for repouring back into the bottle as needed. I also bought a volumetric one, but don't use it much. I do use the others a lot and the things are a cinch to clean and damn sturdy due to its pyrex construction. When multiple wines are being poured at a party its nice to have a few. To store I place plastic wrap over the funnel and place over the opening of the flask to make the seal. It's not the most sexy decanter, but it does a good job I think.

Curious as well what people's opion on cleaning decanters and wine glasses. I personally use just a bit of soap in the inside and rinse repeadedly. Other folks have recomneded dumping a bunch of kosher salt..

-Brandon

(in reply to jamscreator)

Post #: 14

RE: decanting - 3/2/2008 8:22:20 PM

Blue Shorts

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I doubt that using the rteidel decanters will make any difference similar to the glasses. As long as the decanter exposes the wine to as much air as possible, it shouldn't make any difference.

If we want to start saying that the glass type makes a difference, then we'll have to discuss the wine bottle itself, sice the wine typically spends most of it's life in contact with it.

As far as I'm concerned, decanters should expse the wine to as much surface area as possible and be good for pouring. Beyond that, it's all hype imo.

(in reply to jamscreator)

Post #: 15

RE: decanting - 3/2/2008 8:24:43 PM

fingers

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The product, "Glass Magic" works really well for me in the dishwasher.

(in reply to Blue Shorts)

Post #: 16

RE: decanting - 3/4/2008 2:42:53 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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Have to confess I'm rather ignorant about decanting.
Have seen all too little science, but strong anecdotal views.

I decant:
1. when faced with heavy sediment
2. to 'blind' the wine
3. for dramatic effect at the table

Very happy to learn more.

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First they came for ....................

(in reply to jamscreator)

Post #: 17

RE: decanting - 3/4/2008 11:40:29 AM

GalvezGuy

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From: Galveston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bschwindtcoffee

I was reading the NY times' blog "The Pour" by Eric Asimov and he recomened a 2000mL earlimier (sp?) flask. So I went to a local scientific supply store and purchased a couple. at $15 I could not complain so I also purchased two glass funnels. These brand new things are just as clean as any wine shop, but the paraniod person that I am, I washed each for about 20 min.

Here is Asimov's blog: http://thepour.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/from-lab-to-table/

The funnels at least are great for repouring back into the bottle as needed. I also bought a volumetric one, but don't use it much. I do use the others a lot and the things are a cinch to clean and damn sturdy due to its pyrex construction. When multiple wines are being poured at a party its nice to have a few. To store I place plastic wrap over the funnel and place over the opening of the flask to make the seal. It's not the most sexy decanter, but it does a good job I think.

Curious as well what people's opion on cleaning decanters and wine glasses. I personally use just a bit of soap in the inside and rinse repeadedly. Other folks have recomneded dumping a bunch of kosher salt..

-Brandon

For cleaning a decanter, my tried and true method (from my bartending days) is to swirl some ice (enough to dover the botther), even works on dried on wine and rinse and hang. I try to avoid getting soap in the decanter at all as it leaves residue even when it seems to be rinsed clean. My glasses are rinsed with hot water and then dried with a microfiber cloth, seems to work the best (terry cloth leaves lint and so do paper towels).

Interesting note on the Ehrlmeyer flasks, never thought about it but it would be easy to find a stopper. I use a blown glass ball to cover the decanter, not sure how tight the seal is but it looks nice.

_____________________________

If you're gonna be dumb you better be tough

(in reply to bschwindtcoffee)

Post #: 18

RE: decanting - 3/4/2008 11:39:32 PM

Colonel Lawrence

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Here is a little advice - probably bad - if you're ever faced with a truly disintegrated cork.
Pour the wine into a decanter through a coffee filter paper.

I once had a very fine, but very old, bottle of vintage port and the cork broke into thousands of pieces.
Great disappointment was change to great joy with one coffee filter.

There may be some issues (residuals in the paper) that I don't know about, but in desparation I'd try it.

< Message edited by Colonel Lawrence -- 3/8/2008 3:54:05 AM >

(in reply to GalvezGuy)

Post #: 19

RE: decanting - 3/5/2008 7:36:31 AM

esb

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If I may add a point. Give the filter a good rinse with water before use. It may ameliorate the wine a touch, but in my opinion, that is preferable to a very slight cellulose flavor and/or aroma that may taint the wine. Reminds me of TCA, but it's not - or a wine that has been filtered through improperly prepared cellulose sheets (should not be an issue today, but occasionally . . ).

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 20

RE: decanting - 3/7/2008 10:08:13 PM

Thornhaven

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A few months ago over in Napa Valley (25 miles away) with some friends wine tasting we found virtually every winery was selling the same glass venturi funnel with aeration holes (with each winery's etched logo). We tried it at Peju and immediately noticed a pronounced opening in young wines. I'm a sucker for new gadgets and bought one. Can't remember the price but don't think it was more than $25. Since then I've been using it on all my red wines, young and old, and have liked the the improvement. It beats waiting around for traditional decanting to work it's magic. I guess the next step is to have a tasting, single wine, both methods with variable times and see the differences. Another excuse to hit the cellar...I like it.

(in reply to esb)

Post #: 21

RE: decanting - 3/8/2008 3:56:46 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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Hey Peju. The only winery I've visited in Ca.!
Must be over a decade ago, is it still very friendly?
L.

(in reply to Thornhaven)

Post #: 22

RE: decanting - 3/8/2008 8:09:38 AM

Thornhaven

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Peju,
It's a winery I've overlooked for years sticking more to visits to J. Phelps, Montelina, Duckhorn and others off the Silverado Trail rather than the mass of humanity over on Hwy 29 on the west side of the Valley. We booked in advance and had a private upstairs tasting with 10 friends from overseas and they did a wonderful job of taking care of us.
Booking the appointments and spending a few dollars to do the private tastings is the only way to go in Napa Valley. Else wise you are in throngs of people looking for a cheap high drinking NV wineries 2nd label bottlings of Central Valley mass market swill designed by consumer marketing teams using Wal Mart shoppers.

30 years ago in another life before kids, my wife and I made garage wine in NV with three other couples. The Sav Blanc was undrinkable dry then but with a 2nd fermentation and 30 years it's turned to a honey colored drinkable when desparate wine. Our Cab from then faired much better. In January, I opened a magnum with a problem cork, decanted it for 2 hours, for a dinner aganist a magnum of 91 Heitz Martha's Vineyard also decanted for 2 hours. Both threw off some sediment. Whether it was the two hours of waiting or the tastebud numbing drinking of other wines in the interim, Both magnums opened up beautifully and the reviews were complementary. While I've read reviews that talk about the delecate nature of old wines that can be destroyed by decanting I've never experienced it.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 23

RE: decanting - 3/10/2008 3:21:30 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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Fascinating tale.
I'd love to have a bigger interest in a Chateau, than just buying their wine.
Sadly as all I know is how to drink the stuff, I'd make but a silent partner.
Did approach two French operations to see whether an investment would help them improve their wine and whether it would be welcome and heard a deafening silence. It seems in France the small places get bought primarily for their real estate value.
L.

(in reply to Thornhaven)

Post #: 24

RE: decanting - 3/10/2008 6:49:39 AM

Kazappa

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Wouldn't that be nice, however, to be a silent partner. The opportunity to learn and not be questioned about your 'lurking.' Of course, silent partners eventually find their voice, and maybe that's what the proprieters were concerned about!

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 25

RE: decanting - 3/10/2008 11:06:46 AM

Thornhaven

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We had 4 couples together on this in 1979 with three of the individuals working for Sterling. All of bottles were free from the tasting room. All we had to do was strip labels and clean. My wife and I handled the chemistry and fermenting after a number of courses at UC Davis.We started with a large hand press not much different from DaVinci's original design and had started buying stainless and french oak barrels for the concrete cellar we were using in Calastoga. The grapes were sourced all over the Valley. Some no doubt of dubious proir ownership delivered by non-descrip pick-ups pulling grape gondolas. In the beginning we did our own picking but immediately decided that this was better to be left to those who knew what they were doing. It was a lot more fun pressing grapes, drinking wine and eating bread and brie. The group broke up in 1983 due to the messy divorce of one of the couples just as we were going to bond and buy our first bladder press and a half dozen 1000 gallon stainless tanks with chillers. It took a while to recover and split all the assets. Undoubtably we would have become a full fledged winery. It was fun at the time and I still can't believe I drove home 40 forty miles after the many a pressing party without an incident.
I once read about on Bordeaux Chateau that had divied up ownership shares in a club grouping with all those wanting to help in the fall welcome. Bill Harlan did the same here in Napa Valley. The original price was $100,000 per share which got you opportunity to work there as much as you want and the exclusive right to two barrels (40-44 cases) at the stiking price of $40 a barrel. In short order they had 400 owners. Just do the math. He spent 20 million on the winery I'm told and another 6 million on the acreage. Nice deal for someone.
The story here is if you want to make a fortune in the winery business you need to start with a greater fortune.

(in reply to Kazappa)

Post #: 26

RE: decanting - 3/10/2008 3:10:23 PM

Maestro

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There are several programs in Europe for amateurs/beginners/laymen to get involved in wine production through investment...

Here is just one example:

http://www.wineshare.co.uk/?tduid=c6838735d30cf72c59433c31c89ca9b5
http://www.eatanddrink.co.uk/Wine_Spirits/Wineshare.asp

I have no idea whether these programs are good because I am not interested (if I wanted to go into winemaking there are plenty of opportunities directly with Italian owners I know, but I think making wine is the type of hard work I don't need -- drinking it is much more fun...), but if you are interested, check it out...

(in reply to Thornhaven)

Post #: 27