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RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 5/30/2008 9:13:11 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Anyone have a few on the Sauternes?  Have picked up BBR's usual mixed case but have read a couple of reports that the vintage is comparable with 2001, in which case Yquem might be worth a punt.

The 01 released about GBP2,400 and is now at GBP4,450 on Farr so I guess anything under GBP3,600 could be a good price (if it is comparable).  Interestingly this is the top of Farr's estimate so perhaps it's not as good as all that? The 03 is at GBP1,650 and score ranges for Farr (same), Jancis Robinson (19 for 07 vs 18 for 03), WS and RP are similar to this vintage so maybe to bottom of the range is better value.

Views?

Wrighty

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 91
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 5/30/2008 9:37:52 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		If we're not buying 07's what's the alternative in Bordeaux.  Views for around GBP1K?

05 Pontet Canet - GBP850
00 Pichon Baron - GBP980
05 Lynch Bages - GBP840
04 Ornellaia - GBP991 (have tried this and it's awesome)

Other suggestions welcome.

Wrighty

< Message edited by Wrighty -- 5/30/2008 9:42:11 AM >

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 92
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/1/2008 2:56:02 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Pretty close to drawing a line under my 2007 campaign - over before it's started.
Seems illogical to tie up funds when I will almost certainly be able to buy the same, or superior wines, at equivalent prices nearer their drinking window.
May buy Leoville Barton - solidarity with Antony Barton who seems almost unique in thinking about the customer and his long term franchise when pricing.
Antony Barton on the 2006 vintage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oUg8AJIPBw
Obviously will look at the 1st's (they invariably go out of stock and/or appreciate), but pricing will be critical - and I'm not hopeful.
L.

PS  Wrighty what the hell is 2004 Tenuta dell'Ornellaia Bolgheri Superiore Ornellaia (is that even the right wine?).
Showing my ignorance outside Bordeaux I know.

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Post #: 93
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/1/2008 2:59:13 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wrighty

If we're not buying 07's what's the alternative in Bordeaux.  Views for around GBP1K?

Other suggestions welcome.

Wrighty


In case I wasn't clear - what about any Leoville Barton 200-2006.
They should be good and affordable (and why not throw in 2007 as well  )

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Post #: 94
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/1/2008 3:06:25 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		The other way to go is with 2000.
Haven't done the study in detail, but my impression is that they represent a far better buy than 2005.
I don't know you but I'm not sure I can wait for a lot more 2005 and 2000's have a five year edge on drinking.
All the usual suspects should be considered, depending on the deal you can get (dealers will negotiate on 2000 as they have profit tied up in them, unlike recent years 2005/6/7).
L.

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Post #: 95
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/1/2008 3:19:53 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Colonel

Tenuta dell'Ornellaia is the producer (cousins of Antinori I think)
Bolgeri Superiore is the DOCG (Tuscan coast)
Ornellaia is the wine

Available from Fine and Rare Wines in the UK (don't buy it all please) 

2004 was another great vintage for Tuscany.

Wright

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 96
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/1/2008 3:31:59 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Colonel,

Already have the 2000 Leoville Barton - tried a half bottle when released and very impressed.  Was probably thinking more on the 2000, have a few and tried a few and been impressed although haven't got anything to benchmark against for 2005.

Wrighty

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 97
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/1/2008 5:24:28 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		2004 4 Cs Ornellaia 991   
2004 18 xBt Masseto 327 each   


Are you suggesting that I might buy all the Masseto - only 385 pounds a bottles!!!
More than my 2000 Margaux!

Or the cheapy Ornellaia at just about a ton!
It had better be good - @ the price of 2005 Cos dÉstournel.

Hopefully I did the maths wrong ???????????????????



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Post #: 98
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/1/2008 8:00:56 AM   
Wrighty

 

Posts: 642
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		The Masseto is 100% merlot and from the price, positioned a'la Petrus (I've never tried either so don't know).  Not sure about the 04 (WS - 98).  The 01 (WS - 100) and 97 were almost impossible to get hold of [even a bottle] at the time (in HK at least which has had good allocations on these wines).

The Ornellaia has been the dark horse of the super tuscans, somewhat in the shadows of Sassicaia, Solaia and even Tignanello.  WS have positioned it high in their top 100 a few times, the 98 was number one in 01 and the 04 was number seven last year.  CT score is 93.6 (from 13 reviews) vs Cos 05 at 94 (from 4 reviews) so comparable at the moment.  I had it with a group that weren't convinced about Italian wines and this was probably the first wine that had changed that view.  You might get a better cash return on the Cos, obviously who knows about the pleasure return at this stage.

And your maths seems about right.

Wrighty

Think your ma

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 99
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/1/2008 12:32:41 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		This Italian stuff seems just as tricky as claret.
Maybe Maestro can help simplify.
Thanks for starting my learning.
Cheers,
L.

(in reply to Wrighty)
Post #: 100
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/2/2008 2:41:39 AM   
Maestro

 

Posts: 521
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence

This Italian stuff seems just as tricky as claret.
Maybe Maestro can help simplify.
Thanks for starting my learning.
Cheers,
L.


Not sure what bits are complicated, but here we go:.

If you go back to our Italian Red Wine 101 discussion, you will rememeber that there are 5 categories of collectible Italian reds, of which one is the "Super-Tuscans".

Well, Tenuta dell'Ornellaia is a leading estate in the Super-Tuscan game.

Their wines are:

> The "Ornellaia" -- that is the flagship product. A Bordeaux-like blend (the 2004 is 60 % CABERNET SAUVIGNON, 20 % CABERNET FRANC, 15 % MERLOT, 5 % PETIT VERDOT). It is one of the "trophy" wines of Italy.

> The "Masseto" -- Italy's challenge to Petrus as a 100% Merlot super-wine.

> The "Le Serre Nuove" (The "New Hills") -- A kind of "second wine" of the Ornellaia, made from younger vines in a new plot. (The 2004 is 40 % CABERNET SAUVIGNON, 40 % MERLOT, 15 % CABERNET FRANC, 5 % PETIT VERDOT.) This delivers astonishing value and it is a great way to experience Tenuta dell'Ornellaia at reasonable prices.

> The "Le Volte" -- The only Tenuta dell'Ornellaia wine to include Tuscany's traditional variety "Sangiovese" (the one used in Brunello and Chianti). The 2005 is 50 % SANGIOVESE, 35 % MERLOT, 15 % CABERNET SAUVIGNON.

All these wines will carry the words "Tenuta dell'Ornellaia Bolgheri" in their name, as they are all produced by "Tenuta dell'Ornellaia" in the region of Bolgheri, Tuscany.

The 2004 vintage was fantastic in Tuscany. Tuscany had 3 great vintages in the last 12 years: 1997, 2001, and 2004. After tasting many wines, my preference is in this order: 2004, 1997, and 2001. I may need to swallow my words as the '04s are very young to judge, but I think 2004 will be the greatest of the three vintages.

The only thing I didn't understand was the prices you were talking about. The 2004 Masseto I can't find anymore in my local merchant, but the 2004 Ornellaia costs about $130 per bottle. The 2004 Le Serre Nuove costs about $50 and it delivers great value.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 101
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/2/2008 4:44:16 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Would 146 pounds sterling ($284) for a bottle of 1994 Masseto be a good buy?
L.

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Post #: 102
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/2/2008 4:53:22 AM   
Maestro

 

Posts: 521
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence

Would 146 pounds sterling ($284) for a bottle of 1994 Masseto be a good buy?
L.



A "good buy"? Well, that I don't know, it depends on how you define a "good buy".

Bob gave the 1994 Masseto 91 points, and the WS gave it 92 points. It should be fully mature by now (Bob's drinking window for it was 1999-2013).

It should be a really good wine to drink (I'd love to try it), and if it has been properly cellared for all these years, it should be worth the $284 tag. At least in comparison with the $1600 price-tag on an 1994 Petrus.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 103
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/2/2008 5:18:50 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		This is an odd bottle at a dealer I have used for Bordeaux in the past.
I'll pass on it and search for something fresher and in its own case - my only bad bottles ever have been odd ones.
Strangely I haven't yet found a good UK dealer for Italian wines - there must be a number, any ideas?
L.

(in reply to Maestro)
Post #: 104
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/3/2008 11:32:37 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Still awaiting to hear about the Ornellaia 2005.
So while waiting I bought my first 2007 -
Yes it's Leoville Barton, in spite of RP.
Go Antony!
L.

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Post #: 105
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/7/2008 7:28:37 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Latest News/Release:
http://www.farrvintners.com/epnews.php

Full (almost) list of releases:
http://www.farrvintners.com/winelist_ep.php?showcomments=0

Scores/Comments
http://www.farrvintners.com/winelist_ep.php?showcomments=1

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Post #: 106
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/8/2008 2:57:31 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Boxes and Costco lead wine growth in US:
http://www.decanter.com/news/258025.html

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Post #: 107
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 6/10/2008 2:08:10 AM   
Kiwi

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 4/25/2008
From: Palmerston Otago New Zealand
Status: offline

< Message edited by Kiwi -- 6/10/2008 2:20:43 AM >

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Post #: 108
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 7/5/2008 11:44:38 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Certainly a bad, bad year for Bordeaux.
CT purchases illustrate it well:
       Wines     Bottles
2005 2176     214358
2006   565       25304
2007   133         2760

I thought it may just be a timing issue - people have had longer to buy the older vintages, but CTers are still buying 2005 at a higher rate than 2007; they're even buying 2006 at a higher rate:
2007   85 bottles in last three days
2006   94
2005 408

There has to be a lot of inventory out there, and when the bottles get filled watch the prices tumble
Let's hope for a nice hot, dry 2008.

L.

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Post #: 109
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 7/10/2008 7:12:31 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Reliably informed that sales of 2007 en primeur were only half that of 2006.
L.

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Post #: 110
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 7/10/2008 10:42:45 AM   
GalvezGuy

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline 		Great news.  Will definitely get some decent buys in the future.  I have been picking off 2001s and 2002s lately, which I have been getting mostly through e-mails and the like.  Quality is decent, price is decent, and I can drink most of them now as opposed to my 2005s, which I will have to wait quite a while on, based on the few samples I have had.

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Post #: 111
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 7/10/2008 3:50:31 PM   
Rak

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		Is anyone buying into the 2007 German wines? Spectacular vintage apparently?
I increasingly warm to the trocken Rieslings.

R

(in reply to GalvezGuy)
Post #: 112
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 9/27/2008 12:06:58 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Well with 2008 around the corner I can sadly announce I bought just:
1 case of 2007 Bordeaux - Chateau Leoville Barton
and that was because Mr Barton seems a decent chap and hasn't gouged his customers in previous years.

In case any French producer read CT (I'm sure they must) - 
in the year 2005* I cellared 100% Bordeaux reds
in 2006 I cellared 92% from bordeaux
in 2007 I cellared 52% from Bordeaux
and this year only 44% from Bordeaux
next year will certainly be an even lower proportion.
Does French wine have a marketing department?
If so fire them all!
L.



(* the year I purchased, not the vintage)

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 113
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 9/29/2008 9:29:57 PM   
Hollowine

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Hood River, OR
Status: offline 		I hadn't been paying much attention to the 2007 futures, until an email came in today from a Wine store in So. Cal that I purchase from occasionally. They are offering a lot of 1st & 2nd growths at "their Cost" for the futures. 1st growths are around $365/btl and Lalande and Cos are $87/$106 respectively.

Am thinking demand for futures must be pretty low on the 2007's if they are selling at "cost".

hmmm.....

(in reply to Wrighty)
Post #: 114
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 9/30/2008 2:37:16 AM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 701
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: offline 		My heart bleeds for them.  Those poor little wine chateaux/corporations.

People are not as dumb as the chateaux think, and their 'product' is not as indispensible as they think.





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Post #: 115
RE: 2007 Vintage - News? - 9/30/2008 2:54:24 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		And now you can buy very good wines from many part of the world.
L.

PS  Don't swallow the selling at cost line too easily, remember the starting price for 2007's was much too high (thanks to the greedy producers, not dealers I must add).

(in reply to pjaines)
Post #: 116
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