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RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/7/2008 8:40:01 AM   
Eric

 

Posts: 5590
Joined: 10/10/2003
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence
I have no objection to sharing the wines, but the quantities I'm not so happy about.
If I could surpress quantities (and hence values), while showing the list, then everyone gets what they want.
Is it possible - Eric?

Values are suppressed when you view another person's cellar. Quantities are not. Sorry.


_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 31
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/7/2008 12:55:42 PM   
GalvezGuy

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgrimes

If you can sell your Sea Smoke for that price, perhaps I should sell mine as well.  The question is should I keep my yearly allocation just to resell it! :-)


I regularly see bottles go on Wine Commune and Winebid go for 2 - 2.5x release price (expect for the Ten, it is 1.5 - 2x).  My plan is to buy, hold for 2-3 years, then sell.

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If you're gonna be dumb you better be tough

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Post #: 32
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/8/2008 4:06:08 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		All you really surpress is the profit someone makes as the price is known to all (via winesearcher, winebid etc.).
Afraid I'll keep my cellar private until I can eliminate quantities.


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First they came for ....................

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Post #: 33
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 3/8/2008 8:35:41 AM   
ParkHill

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 6/27/2007
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Here's a collectibility question.

Are you better off with a boutique, low-production wine or with something pricey, but more mainstream?

In the first case rarity could lead to unusual price appreciation, but maybe there is so little market that you can't even sell.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 34
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/16/2008 1:33:33 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ParkHill

Here's a collectibility question.

Are you better off with a boutique, low-production wine or with something pricey, but more mainstream?

In the first case rarity could lead to unusual price appreciation, but maybe there is so little market that you can't even sell.



Don't think there is a firm answer on this one.
Some Garagiste have soared and collapsed, others are still rising.
Of the mainstream the only consistency that I've seen is that the famous (1st's, Petrus etc.) always do well, and so do the consistently well made and fairly priced (e.g. Leoville's Barton and Poyferre spring to mind).
I try to buy wines that could become great AND are priced fairly (whatever that means).
L.

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Post #: 35
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/16/2008 11:30:31 AM   
tim95030

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline 		Fun topic. I enjoyed reading your lists. Here is ours (My dad and I collect together):

1955 Chateau Suduiraut
1973 Chateau Coutet
1983 Fonseca Port
1985 Fonseca Port
1988 Veuve Clicquot Brut Rare
1988 Krug Brut
1990 Chateau d'Yquem
1993 Chateau d'Yquem
1994 Fonseca Port
1995 Krug Brut
1997 Opus One
2003 Paul Jaboulet Aine Hermitage La Chapelle
2003 Cos d'Estournel
2003 Don Melchor
2004 Caymus Special Selection
2004 Vine Cliff Pickett Road
2005 Vine Cliff 16 Rows
2005 Ridge Montebello
2005 Two Hands Ares
2005 Kongsgaard The Judge


We started collecting about 2 years ago, so this list will hopefully get bigger and better (assuming we can continue to afford them). The biggest thing lacking in our cellar right now is Bordeaux. I am hoping to get some more soon though.


_____________________________

Tim Schroeder
Certified Sommelier

Current Location: Testarossa Winery

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 36
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/17/2008 1:08:38 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		85% of my cellar is still Bordeaux (working the opposite way from you and looking for the non-Bordeaux great wines of the world).
This is a list of the wines I have bought in at least 5 vintages.
I think it gives a good idea of consistently excellent wine making and fair pricing (e.g. Mouton and Haut Brion are normally at lower prices than the other 3 1st's).

Château Mouton Rothschild  10
Château Léoville Barton  7
Château Lagrange  6
Château Léoville Poyferré  7
Château Smith Haut Lafitte  6
Château Pichon-Longueville Baron  6
Château Calon-Ségur  6
Château Haut-Brion  8
Château Cos d'Estournel  8
Château Monbousquet  5


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Post #: 37
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/21/2008 7:36:56 PM   
jamscreator

 

Posts: 313
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Indiana USA
Status: offline 		I can say that I personally don't feel I have any "collectable" wines in the cellar.  Although I'd love to have the pocketbook to fill a cellar with some amazing stuff, I guess I'll have to stick with drinking it!

_____________________________

Jeff Lawson

"Drink what you like, and like what you drink."
-Robert Mondavi

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 38
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/21/2008 7:55:52 PM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		jamscreator, I just perused your cellar and disagree.  Your ports, Cali Cabs, a few reserve Pinots, and scattered Bordeaux could all theoretically be sold at auction  for decent profits or aged gracefully in your cellar for your future enjoyment.

Isn't CT wonderful?!?

(in reply to jamscreator)
Post #: 39
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/24/2008 6:11:23 PM   
jamscreator

 

Posts: 313
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Indiana USA
Status: offline 		Glad you had a look around, even as meek as it is right now.  My plan is to eventually drink everything in my cellar over the years.  Someday I might buy by the caseloads in order to drink and sell.  All I know is that I'm having a blast!!

_____________________________

Jeff Lawson

"Drink what you like, and like what you drink."
-Robert Mondavi

(in reply to cgrimes)
Post #: 40
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/25/2008 8:31:02 AM   
cgrimes

 

Posts: 895
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		jamscreator, I'm like you.  I buy to drink.  But now that my cellar is pretty well-rounded for my taste, I will likely start to make more concentrated purchases, ie cases, as that is how you really get to know a wine (or so I'm told).  I'm not advocating that you sell your wines but I have seen wines such as yours at auction, and there was demand for them--therefore by definition collectable.  To you they're drinkable, and I hope you enjoy every drop

(in reply to jamscreator)
Post #: 41
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/25/2008 12:02:12 PM   
dre

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 3/7/2007
From: British Columbia, Canada.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jamscreator

I can say that I personally don't feel I have any "collectable" wines in the cellar.  Although I'd love to have the pocketbook to fill a cellar with some amazing stuff, I guess I'll have to stick with drinking it!


Im in pretty much the same boat, I run a fairly short term cellar with the majority of my wines are to be drank within 3 to 5 years. once i get in the kick of drinking my cellared wines when they are mature i should be able to move the buying into a medium - long term program. that said i have a couple jems:

2005 Mongeard-Mugneret Echezeaux
1999 Tenuta dell'Ornellaia Bolgheri Superiore Ornellaia
2001 Alvaro Palacios Priorat Finca Dofi



_____________________________

I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret.
- John Cleese

(in reply to jamscreator)
Post #: 42
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/25/2008 12:52:43 PM   
fingers

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jamscreator

Glad you had a look around,


This illustrates one of the powerful features of CT.  As another forum, referring to "open/public cellars" talks about, I think it's very cool that others could peruse my inventory and offer comment.  Whether it's food pairing, collectibility, QPR, vintage/regional advice, etc - what a great tool and resource!  I'm sure it's under-utilized and maybe only interesting to certified wino's, like me, but as one of the many groundbreaking features of CT, I really appreciate it.

So, anyone care to look at what I have that could be considered collectible?  Never mind the Silver Oak and Mollydooker.  They're too "love it/hate it" in style. 

< Message edited by fingers -- 4/25/2008 12:57:38 PM >

(in reply to jamscreator)
Post #: 43
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/26/2008 7:02:13 AM   
Ricardo

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 4/21/2007
From: Ascot, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tim95030

Fun topic. I enjoyed reading your lists. Here is ours (My dad and I collect together):

1955 Chateau Suduiraut
1973 Chateau Coutet
1983 Fonseca Port
1985 Fonseca Port
1988 Veuve Clicquot Brut Rare
1988 Krug Brut
1990 Chateau d'Yquem
1993 Chateau d'Yquem
1994 Fonseca Port
1995 Krug Brut
1997 Opus One
2003 Paul Jaboulet Aine Hermitage La Chapelle
2003 Cos d'Estournel
2003 Don Melchor
2004 Caymus Special Selection
2004 Vine Cliff Pickett Road
2005 Vine Cliff 16 Rows
2005 Ridge Montebello
2005 Two Hands Ares
2005 Kongsgaard The Judge


We started collecting about 2 years ago, so this list will hopefully get bigger and better (assuming we can continue to afford them). The biggest thing lacking in our cellar right now is Bordeaux. I am hoping to get some more soon though.



Interesting list, I have both the Fonseca 1983 port and Krug 1988 (sadly only one bottle of each, well cellared). I was thinking of popping both these some time in 2008. Any thoughts?

(in reply to tim95030)
Post #: 44
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/26/2008 1:19:34 PM   
tim95030

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline 		I can't say much about the Krug as we only have the one bottle and have never tasted the wine. But I can talk about the '83 Fonseca as we have opened a few bottles of that. It is really good right now, but it will be even better in a few years. This is a still huge wine with a long life. However, it is tasting really good right now, so if you are ready to open it I would say go for it, but it isn't truely peaked yet. Personally we are waiting till about 2010 to pop the '88.

On a side note. The '88 Krug is a wine that I had 2 bottles of, and my Mom decieded to go into the cellar to get a wine to give to some friends. Without our knowledge she did this and grabbed a bottle that she thought was Dom (Which is ready to drink and we have like 10 bottles of) and gave it away. Later on we went into the cellar and I noticed there was only one bottle of the '88. Needless to say she choose the worst possible champagne to give away. The really sad thing is she doesn't remember who she gave it too, so we have no idea where it is or if the people she gave it too had any idea what they recieved. :(


_____________________________

Tim Schroeder
Certified Sommelier

Current Location: Testarossa Winery

(in reply to Ricardo)
Post #: 45
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 4/27/2008 10:36:34 AM   
Ricardo

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 4/21/2007
From: Ascot, UK
Status: offline 		Thanks for your input, Tim. I'll put them on the list for Christmas '08 (The Krug might be a tad early but what the heck...20 years is long enough to wait for a bottle of champagne IMO) :-)

(in reply to tim95030)
Post #: 46
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/2/2008 1:32:10 PM   
RoundersRob

 

Posts: 634
Joined: 7/1/2006
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Status: offline 		For me I would have to say:

1996, 2000-2005 Cos d'Estournel
1994,1995,2004,2004 Angelus   <-- I love that stuff!
2003 Lafite

Actually most of my bordeaux are "collectibles"

I have other verticals of Almaviva, Don Melchor, Insignia, but those get drank too often to be called collectible.  


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Post #: 47
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/2/2008 9:44:33 PM   
remeny1

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline 		95,96,00,03 Latite
03 Latour
95,03 Mouton
95,00 Margaux
01 Shafer HSS
03,05 Quilceda
95 D'yquem
03 Leoville Las Cases
00,03 Leoville Barton
99 Fanti
01 Clos des Papes
00 Lynch Bages
01 Ramey Jericho Vineyard
03 Pichon Lalande
05 Vioux Donjon
04 Beaucastel
02,03 Quintessa
03 Lascombes

(in reply to RoundersRob)
Post #: 48
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/3/2008 7:32:02 AM   
Old_Winyards

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence
Don't think there is a firm answer on this one.
Some Garagiste have soared and collapsed, others are still rising.
Of the mainstream the only consistency that I've seen is that the famous (1st's, Petrus etc.) always do well, and so do the consistently well made and fairly priced (e.g. Leoville's Barton and Poyferre spring to mind).
I try to buy wines that could become great AND are priced fairly (whatever that means).
L.


Actually, given Parker's admonition regarding the backwardness of the Left Bank and that '03 was a better vintage for most, I found the Leovilles overpriced in '05 (except for a short time around $80, Leoville Barton sold mostly around $100/bottle) and didn't buy any. 

I focused primarily on selections where value relative to price seemed to be good, kept in mind his admonition regarding the left bank, and where I would be happy and drink even if the wines didn't score exceptionally well.  With the exception of Trotanoy and Pavie Macquin, everything was under about $70/bottle when I purchased.  I'm _very_ pleased with the results (Malescot, Clos Fourtet, Pavie Macquin, D'Issan, Brane Cantenac, Branaire Ducru, Pontet Canet, etc...).  Moreover, for the few that underperformed from a "rating" perspective, I'm still happy to have Beausejour Duffau, Du Tertre, Lafon Rochet, as I enjoy them year over year AND do not feel I overpayed for them.

I think as you pay more, your likelihood for a disappointing evaluation or drinking performance increases (granted, there are probably some opportunities for greater reward as well), as expectations are raised.  You can see that result in the Parker thread, where there's alot of dismay that many expensive (exorbitant IMO) wines did not perform to the top end of the barrel tasting range.  Clearly, given the hype for the vintage and the subsequent whinging, that's what many Wine Advocate readers expected.

< Message edited by Old_Winyards -- 5/3/2008 7:35:02 AM >

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 49
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/3/2008 1:36:23 PM   
deb293

 

Posts: 289
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		Colonel,

I managed to secure a case of Calon Segur 2000 at about $37 a bottle.  It has been perfectly cellared since I bought it.  The scores from CTers suggest the wine is not up to the hype of the reviewers.  Should I sell some off?

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
Post #: 50
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/4/2008 12:27:36 PM   
GalvezGuy

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: deb293

Colonel,

I managed to secure a case of Calon Segur 2000 at about $37 a bottle.  It has been perfectly cellared since I bought it.  The scores from CTers suggest the wine is not up to the hype of the reviewers.  Should I sell some off?



Deb,

I would hang on to it for a while longer whether you are selling or drinking.  I tried it about 4 years ago and thought that is was fantastic.  The most current reviewers might be getting to it when it is in a closed part of its evolution or they might be trying bottles that had questionable provenance.  Colonel??

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Post #: 51
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/5/2008 3:20:27 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Deb,

I still own a number of cases and am hopeful they will be good.
But as you know I'm not starting on my 2000's for a while.
I have sold 1 case of mine though as it had appreciated substantially - as will yours, probably closing on $100 a bottle.
My belief is in blind tasting results wherever available and I found a useful one on EWS
http://www.erobertparker.com/EWS/ews48.asp
The link used to work for everyone, but I suspect now only worls for eRP members (which I'm not).
Essentially the Calon Segur 2000 did very well blind on March 22nd 2005:
"5 First Place Votes - 95 rating. Very deeply colored, yet the "lightest" of the flight! Gorgeous nose filled with ripe blackberry and cassis fruit, licorice, spice, oak, and leather. Sexy, seductive, and voluptuous on the palate with enormous complexity. This is a three-ring circus in your mouth. There’s plenty of tannin to shed but the amazing concentration and density of 2000 Calon Segur diverts your attention away from the tannins. This is a huge, powerful, youthful wine with tremendous extract and a pronounced minerality that is all perfectly in balance. The finish is very long and damn good. Makes you wonder if this wine will ever drink better than it did tonight. Everybody loved it."

At the end of the day it's your call, but don't lose hope.
L.

< Message edited by Colonel Lawrence -- 5/5/2008 2:11:03 PM >

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Post #: 52
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/5/2008 9:51:49 AM   
jnastynebr

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 5/1/2008
From: Lincoln NE
Status: offline 		04-05 Domaine de la Vieux Telegraph
01 Pedori Colla Busia Rosa Barolo
mics 2-5 growth St. Julien, St. Estephe, Margaux, and Pomerol from 1998-2005
02' Stags Leap cask 23
01 Siro Pacenti
Loads of Napa cabs that I usually kill before age 10.
Penfolds Bin Shiraz/Cab


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Post #: 53
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/15/2008 12:16:03 AM   
tacman

 

Posts: 111
Joined: 10/22/2007
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		Ricardo,
The Krug '85, '88, and '89 are all drinking spectacularly right now.
Drank a '79 last year and don't know that it was as good as any of the above three.
Rec. you pop the cork and enjoy!

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Post #: 54
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/20/2008 11:05:41 PM   
the drops of god

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline 		I see your point in your collection
Mouton will hold their value and like a art piece too I'd pay 300-1000 dollars for a painting so why not mouton
Calon I like it cause it taste good and makes it an awsome gift.  Good presentation, nice label, taste, cost performance.
ETC
I See justification for all your collection
I have the same taste profile as you and I also Collect most of those wines
Tasty bordeaux that are fair in price
If I were you I try couple bottles of
Pontet Canet
Issan
Corbin
If you are going to drink it

(in reply to Wrighty)
Post #: 55
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/20/2008 11:10:24 PM   
the drops of god

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline 		I just looked at your collection
Before I go get any new wines

I would first go get the vintages you didnt have

Why did you skip 2002 vintages
You had the best chateaus for your collection of 2002 wines
Larange made a knock out wine in 2002 (had it with a wine maker)
Calon Segur made one of the best 2002 bordeaux in my opinion (hail storm ) (my monthly wine now I could get you a bottle for $40)
Smith haut lafite 2002 is so tasty (Korean Air first class bordeaux wine)

DUDE GET those 2002 and drink them you wont be dissapointed and they are very affordable compared to other vintages.

If you buy D'yquem you never lose money!~

(in reply to the drops of god)
Post #: 56
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/21/2008 6:12:14 PM   
Pavie Princess

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 5/19/2008
Status: offline 		everyone has different tastes and budgets but I'd collectable for me...........27 DRC 45 Mouton 45 and 47 Cheval blanc 1900 Margaux 1967 D'Yquem  for Cali Cabs I go tfor first vintages or vintages in great yrs like 94 and 97.  Some cult wines are in here to like Screagle.

(in reply to Wrighty)
Post #: 57
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/23/2008 5:32:26 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 1953
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Seems, like most things with wine, there are as many definitions of "collectable" as there are people.
For me a collectable wine has to improve in some way; maybe in taste, perhaps in value, ideally in both.
After all if it's not getting better we owe it to the wine to drink it.
L.

_____________________________

First they came for ....................

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Post #: 58
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/23/2008 5:54:27 AM   
GalvezGuy

 

Posts: 298
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline 		Great point Colonel.  I have both in my cellar, wines I am buying and holding to sell for a profit to pay for the ones that I am buying and holding to enjoy later.

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Post #: 59
RE: Most Collectable Wine - 5/26/2008 5:44:20 PM   
the drops of god

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline 		Why did you skip 02's????

Calon 02 is a great wine!  They had a hail early in the season automatic crop thinning.
02 Smith haut lafite drinks awsome!
02 lagrange is amazing too I think highly rated by WS under top 10 wine of the year......

go get them they are around and good price too!!!

(in reply to GalvezGuy)
Post #: 60
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