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The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/19/2008 11:17:08 PM   
Blue Shorts

 

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I'm finally beginning to see why many people here do not post scores, just notes.  Sometimes scores just don't apply.

Case in point:  Last night, my wife and I enjoyed a bottle of burgundy.  It was complex, with freat aromas and just a pleasure to drink.  Tonight, we had a cabernet that, while good, it just wasn't as good as we had hoped.  yet the cabernet was still good. 

If I had given scores to both wines, they would have been similar... and therin lies the problem.  One resulted in extreme pleasures of the senses, while the other did not.  Had I assigned scores to both, they would have been close even though in reality that's not the case.

Henceforth, I will likely refrain from assigning scores and simply rely on trying to describe the experience.  I think a simple "this was very enjoyable, I need to get more" expresses so much more than "89", or "93" or whatever.

I think that simple terms of experience convey so much more than mentioning the specific berry that you taste... and the saddle in your mouth, the limestone wafting on high, etc.  I'm really getting bored with some of the descriptions of specific tastes and aromas.  General descriptions.... "fruit forward",  "candied fruit", "earthy", etc convey the experience.  Mentioning the variety of nectarine that one tastes, or the month that the blackberry was picked does nothing.  In reality, very few notes that mention specific tastes hold true between tasters... even between the fabled Parker, Tanczer, Meadows, etc.

I bow to the wisdom of those on this site that already adhere to these principles.  You know who you are.

OK.  I'm done pontificating.... for the moment 

_____________________________

The best wine is the one that you haven't yet tried.
Post #: 1
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 3:12:24 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

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Thank you, Blue, your post answered the question which was on my mind for some time:
Why 100 points system is so popular?
 
Before invention of 100 points system, the world used 20 points system. 20 point system is based on  technical aspects of the wine. In order to rate wine using 20 points system, one has to learn certain aspects of winemaking process, IOW, 20 points system, which is still in use among professionals during wine competitions, is not the system any "John Q Public" can apply easy to wine for the lack of specific knowledge.

100 points system was a stroke of genius, American highschool prepared everybody to understand 100 points rating, this is something what everybody grew up with and considering that we are living in "100% world", now everybody can express what percentage of their percieved "perfection" the wine is.

Theoreticaly, 100 points system requires certain knowledge too, but only theoreticaly.
"50 points for being there, 10 points for the color, 10 points for the noses...etc.etc.etc"

BUT and very important "but"...how many users on CT use objective wine characterisitics and not just the measure of overall fgacination?

Cases and points (pun intended):
Here is the "New and improved" 100 points system, which requires ZERO of wine knowledge and can be used by Parker and 21 years old who is having his first wine:

1)
THE 100-POINT RATING SCALE
(Robert Parker of the Wine Advocate describes this in more detail)
Extraordinary (96-100 points)
Outstanding (90-95)
Very Good to Excellent (85-89)
Good (80-84)
Average (75-79)
Below average (70-74)
Avoid (50-70)

 
 
The original intent was:
let's score the wine and depending on the score we'll pronounce the wine either "Good" or "Avoid", etc,etc, etc. 

How is this used TODAY by John Q Public?
John Q tastes the wine, desides if the wine is Good, or Extraordinary, etc and based on this impression John Q assigns the score - the complete "reverse engineering"!

2) http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=316464





Community Tasting Notes (average 86 pts. in 2 notes) - click to hide notes with no comments


Tasted by momoisan on 11/4/2007 & rated 86 points: (93 views)


Tasted by steffenpelz on 10/31/2007: Bottle had signs of light seepage. Unclear to me whether it was hat related or cork failure, but the wine showed no overt heat damage. On the contrary, this is a dark pitched Burgundy with a shy nose of tobacco, plum, and earth. On the palate, cherry comes through with some tar and floral notes as well as some leather and crushed rock. Finishes very strong. In my book, this is a great wine from a great, but unheralded terroir from a superb vintage. (280 views)

Majority of users are conditioned to look at the score and than on the note, if at all.
The sad part that those 86 points given by momoisan will influence more wine drinkers than very good TN written by Steffen Peltz (He influenced my French wines appreciation early in a day)

Blue, thanks once again.

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(in reply to Blue Shorts)
Post #: 2
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 7:22:25 AM   
J2K

 

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BS, Serge,
Good points (no pun inteneded) by both of you.

I'd also like to add that;
I think a lot of people use the point system as legitmacy to buying wines also. Not only seeing the marketing tags in the retail shop  " 90 points-Robert Parker" but also in the CT notes.
People will look at the ratings and feel that a wine is worth say $40 if the avg rating is above 90 points. Even though if they read the notes the wine may have aspects they don't enjoy. They just see the points and buy the wine.

I don't mind the points system, I think you have to look at the combination. The points and why they rated it those points. Sometimes I would rather go with a simple "very good" or "average". I had a wine last night that I had trouble rating. I was drinking it without food and thought it was okay but would have been a lot better with food!??  

Once you have reviewed several hundred or thousands of wines and you want to go back and find the ones you enjoyed the most, it probabbly makes it easier if you rated them. Especially if you want to break it down by region, vintage, etc....

< Message edited by J2K -- 7/20/2008 7:36:15 AM >

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 3
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 9:37:53 AM   
Blue Shorts

 

Posts: 318
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From: Santa Cruz, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: J2K

BS, Serge,
Good points (no pun inteneded) by both of you.

I'd also like to add that;
I think a lot of people use the point system as legitmacy to buying wines also. Not only seeing the marketing tags in the retail shop  " 90 points-Robert Parker" but also in the CT notes.
People will look at the ratings and feel that a wine is worth say $40 if the avg rating is above 90 points. Even though if they read the notes the wine may have aspects they don't enjoy. They just see the points and buy the wine.

I don't mind the points system, I think you have to look at the combination. The points and why they rated it those points. Sometimes I would rather go with a simple "very good" or "average". I had a wine last night that I had trouble rating. I was drinking it without food and thought it was okay but would have been a lot better with food!??  

Once you have reviewed several hundred or thousands of wines and you want to go back and find the ones you enjoyed the most, it probabbly makes it easier if you rated them. Especially if you want to break it down by region, vintage, etc....


I hear you.  I see why you like points in addition to notes.  There is merit to being able to quickly find wines that are likely worth drinking again.

This issue that I'm going up against, more and more, is that the points that I have assigned carry less and less meaning over time.  When I go back and look at some of the scores I assigned, I think.... "What?  Was I drunk when I gave this score?" (don't mis the irony there )

I guess it's like the old addage... The more you learn, the more you realize how little you know.

Anyway.  I find that my tastes have changed over time and continue to do so.  Take Napa cabernet sauvignon.  This varietal was once my favorite.  The scores that I assigned to those wines were based on my appreciation of napa cabernet.  Now, I prefer other varietals and appelations.  If I were to assigns scores to those same wines now, the scores would be lower.

Has the wine changed?  No.  I have.

Maybe I should switch to the 3-tier system.  Loved it, Liked it, Give to my neighbor (the one I don't like ).

Using a 100-point system is using circular logic.  If you agree that a variation of a few points  is not significant (sorry for the math reference), then why allow for such precision.  Since the rating system is so imprecise and highly subjective, then using it makes no sense.  I think that we do ourselves a great disservice using this system. 

A difference of just a point or two (especially around the magic number 90) will, and does, make an enormous difference in buying decisions.  It shouldn't.  We ignore a multitude of wines due to a difference of as little as one point even though we will admit that one point makes no difference.  In reality, even a difference of 3 or 5 points has no significance.  In many cases we are willing to spend outrageous sums of money to obtain a wine simply because it has a score that is just a few points higher than others, but is in that magic region between 90 and 100 (and especially between 95 and 100).

OMG.  I agree with Serge  Please don't ostracise me.  I'm not really a bad person

If I do use points moving forward, I think that I'll use a 3 or 5 point rating.  The only problem that I see is screwing up CTs 100 point system.  I don't want to do that.




_____________________________

The best wine is the one that you haven't yet tried.

(in reply to J2K)
Post #: 4
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 10:25:01 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blue Shorts

Maybe I should switch to the 3-tier system.  Loved it, Liked it, Give to my neighbor (the one I don't like ).




There is a problem with this sytem too.
In my younger days, I used to get very enthusiastic about wine, buying it by a case loads and when inevitable change of taste happened, I got stuck with cases of wine I no longer liked, and I was lucky because I was able to bring them back to the store.

Few times, after several years of seeing "my bottles" on the shelves, I picked them just to check how they and my taste progressed. To my HUGE surprise, some of those wines were just delicious and I brought them back home once again.

Yesterday I bought yet another bottle which would be "one of those".

How do you fit THIS in the 3, 2, or 100 tiers system!?

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to Blue Shorts)
Post #: 5
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 10:55:54 AM   
Maestro

 

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---Office of the Wine Police---
41st Directorate of California



1st Warning Letter

Dear Mr. Blue Shorts,

It has come to our attention a matter of great concern. It appears that in one particular wine-related matter, your opinion would be in 100% allignment with that of one Serge Birbair.

Allignment with Serge Birbair is a serious offense, punishable with lifetime cancellation of your WA and WS subscriptions, and lifetime denial of participation in the process of ordering Brodeaux. You may also be put on a lifetime diet of Muskrats and Vodka.

Let this letter serve as your first warning. But remember, three strikes and you are out.

Yours truly.

M.S.
41st Directorate -- Wine Police, California, USA




< Message edited by Maestro -- 7/20/2008 11:08:20 AM >

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 6
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 11:10:00 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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The picture is worth a 1000 words:

Wine Police


Mr. Blue Shorts


Mr. Serge Birbrair



< Message edited by Serge Birbrair -- 7/20/2008 11:23:03 AM >


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(in reply to Maestro)
Post #: 7
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 11:19:29 AM   
Blue Shorts

 

Posts: 318
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I am deeply offended by that picture of me, Serge.

Blackstone Merlot?  Are you kidding?   Couldn't you find a picture of me as a nice burgundy or barolo?

Geeze, what a slap in the face.

_____________________________

The best wine is the one that you haven't yet tried.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 8
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 11:23:51 AM   
Blue Shorts

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maestro

---Office of the Wine Police---
41st Directorate of California



1st Warning Letter

Dear Mr. Blue Shorts,

It has come to our attention a matter of great concern. It appears that in one particular wine-related matter, your opinion would be in 100% allignment with that of one Serge Birbair.

Allignment with Serge Birbair is a serious offense, punishable with lifetime cancellation of your WA and WS subscriptions, and lifetime denial of participation in the process of ordering Brodeaux. You may also be put on a lifetime diet of Muskrats and Vodka.

Let this letter serve as your first warning. But remember, three strikes and you are out.

Yours truly.

M.S.
41st Directorate -- Wine Police, California, USA





Nooooo!  Not my subscriptions!!  Anything but my subscriptions.

I'll turn state's evidence.  I'll rat (or muskrat) on Serge.  Serge drugged me.  yeah.. that's the ticket

Please... It was the wine talking, not me.  Have mercy!!!!

_____________________________

The best wine is the one that you haven't yet tried.

(in reply to Maestro)
Post #: 9
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 11:24:26 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1574
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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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My sincere apologies, the offending image has been removed and replaced with the REAL
Blue Shorts

< Message edited by Serge Birbrair -- 7/20/2008 11:28:38 AM >


_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to Blue Shorts)
Post #: 10
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 11:28:15 AM   
Blue Shorts

 

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From: Santa Cruz, California
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How did you get that picture of me?  Are you stalking me?

I'm gonna contact the Wine Police immediately and get a restraining order against you.

_____________________________

The best wine is the one that you haven't yet tried.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 11
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 11:44:26 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

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please do!
:)



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Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to Blue Shorts)
Post #: 12
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 11:45:44 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maestro

M.S.
41st Directorate -- Wine Police, California, USA




< Message edited by Maestro -- 7/20/2008 2:08:20 PM >
Yours truly.

M.S.
41st Directorate -- Wine Police, California, USA





I liked the original signature much more
:)

_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

(in reply to Maestro)
Post #: 13
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 12:34:20 PM   
Maestro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Serge Birbrair

I liked the original signature much more
:)


I decided to keep Eric out of trouble by being a bit more subtle...

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 14
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 12:59:21 PM   
J2K

 

Posts: 435
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA- U.S.A.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maestro

---Office of the Wine Police---
41st Directorate of California



1st Warning Letter

Dear Mr. Blue Shorts,

It has come to our attention a matter of great concern. It appears that in one particular wine-related matter, your opinion would be in 100% allignment with that of one Serge Birbair.

Allignment with Serge Birbair is a serious offense, punishable with lifetime cancellation of your WA and WS subscriptions, and lifetime denial of participation in the process of ordering Brodeaux. You may also be put on a lifetime diet of Muskrats and Vodka.

Let this letter serve as your first warning. But remember, three strikes and you are out.

Yours truly.

M.S.
41st Directorate -- Wine Police, California, USA




Maestro,
That's hilarious, very clever and original!!

(in reply to Maestro)
Post #: 15
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 2:22:41 PM   
jhannah27

 

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I am with both Blue and J2K on this one (which I suppose by default means I'm with Serge as well, please don't reprimand me too!).

My take on tasting notes is to try and convey the experience of the wine.  While I do fall prey to including descriptions of the aromatics and flavor profile (which tend to be for my own recollection of the wine, more so than trying to dictate such characteristics), my favorite descriptions are those that talk about how the wine made them feel and what it made them think, who they were with, under what circumstances, etc.  Those experiences all go into making this crazy obsession of ours so great, and that's what I like to share as well as read from others.

To the point of points...I score wines again, for my own recollection, and while I know people will take it as they will, it's just another piece of information to hopefully give someone my impression of the wine, for whatever that may be worth.  I can get behind someone who decides to write notes, but not score.  What I don't get are those who score, but don't note.  This is when the points system becomes worthless because what does 90 points mean to that person?  How does their perception of 90 points compare to your perception of it?  And most importantly, how does that affect your perception of the value of a wine?  While I appreciate that so many people are involved in CT and provide their input on how good or bad they thought a wine was, without a discussion of the wine and the experience that went along with that wine there is no benchmark to give a score any weight, in my opinion.

Long story short...due to the subjectivity of wine tasting, whichever scoring system one might use, I feel that it means nothing without a description of what that score means to each individual. 


_____________________________

"Quickly! Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever."
Aristophanes 450 - 385 b.c.

(in reply to J2K)
Post #: 16
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/20/2008 4:02:43 PM   
zippz

 

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love those wine caddies
http://www.metronationcincy.com/hksteel.html

Interesting inquiry BS... you got my wheels turning.

Let's consider for a moment that wine in itself... is a work of art.
(which i am thoroughly convinced of)
As with any creative product/endeavor you have an industry of critics
sprout up around it pointing the time-deprived ill-experienced herd
away from inferior time/taste-bud wasters.
The necessary evil of these walking talking yard sticks
becomes abundantly clearer when you entertain the thought of every wine ever made...
same is true when one contemplates the mountain of movies, plays, albums and paintings
that are created over a single decade... it's over whelming.
In such cases it is extremely handy to have a professional beach combing treasure seeker.

...and as to be expected in such subjective arenas ...
where taste changes/evolves over time, i think critics regularly miss the mark...
much like a forecaster miss reads the weather. 
It seems to me that for a segment of the populace such as this
(people who spend more time then most with grapes dancing on their melons),
ones level of experience is so much more in kin with a critic's,
that one can find gems among the discarded...
and therefore the validity of a scoring system comes more into question...
placing descriptions in a more favorable light.

oh yeah ! i just got auto-branded "senior" status with this 101 post...
you can all now officially kiss my elite feet...
including all you super mega farts lol

< Message edited by zippz -- 7/20/2008 4:11:51 PM >


_____________________________

“See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil... just Drink wine” ~ CT mantra

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 17
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/22/2008 2:37:51 AM   
pjaines

 

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I've started to stick a brief summary at the end of my tasting notes, "Eg: Overall very good, will improve" just to clarify my score.  However, I am starting to come round to not actually giving a score to some wines either because the wine is too young, not developed enough or I am just unsure.  Generally I pay more attention to someone's comments rather than the score they give (Eg: tasted like dog-doo and dead wombat - 95).

People use the scores differently on this site so a good wine for me (which I would mark 80-84) some people would look at the score and thing it was dirt. 

_____________________________

-- Paul

(in reply to zippz)
Post #: 18
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/22/2008 8:18:49 AM   
Paul S

 

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Wow - we must have posted about this about half a billion times. Anyway, another two cents of worth of my thoughts:

I find wine so difficult to score, especially when a "lousy" wine that would do badly in a blind tasting is paired beautifully with food and drank with good company. I would rather not score my wines either, but I just cannot bear to leave that space blank. That is why I take a rather round-about approach, looking at other scores and my own subjective perception of the wine, comparing it to how I have scored other wines, and trying to reach some kind of consistency with my scoring that would give other CT users some kind of handle as to what I thought about the objective quality of the wine. 

One unexpectedly useful thing that I get out of this whole exercise is that I can actually "rank" my tasting notes - this allows me to see which of the hundreds of bottles tasted in the last couple of years have given me the most pleasure. That, in itself, I think is worth the pain of thinking up a way to score in a less than arbirtary fashion.

I find that my range starts somewhere from 85 and ends at 97 (being my highest scored wines). I know what the other posters are saying about wines scored at 85 or so points, however, as long as the wine is drinkable (i.e. not meant for the saucepan), I generally will give it a bonus 80 points or so. I suspect that more or less reflects the way many posters input their points.

I also try to balance out the arbitrariness of the scoring exercise by providing detailed notes whenever I can, with some personal information, to help me remember where and with whom I had the wine, and what food I paired it with (which to me is part of the pleasure of having the wine), and with enough objective information to help me and other CT users get a grip on the wine.

(in reply to pjaines)
Post #: 19
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/22/2008 8:26:13 AM   
pjaines

 

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Regardless of notes or scores, the one thing I hate about this website is that it shows how much I drink.  All I get from that is a sense of euphoria followed by guilt.  And probably a failed liver.

_____________________________

-- Paul

(in reply to Paul S)
Post #: 20
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/22/2008 8:38:22 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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Paul, there is an easy remedy for that:
don't look!

"What you don't know...."


_____________________________

Do you really think you understand terroir!? -

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Post #: 21
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/22/2008 9:02:25 AM   
Blue Shorts

 

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Come on, Serge.  Viewing consumption is like passing a gory accident on the highway.  Morbid curiosity always triumphs over reason

_____________________________

The best wine is the one that you haven't yet tried.

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Post #: 22
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/22/2008 9:26:01 AM   
jhannah27

 

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From: Anaheim, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pjaines

Regardless of notes or scores, the one thing I hate about this website is that it shows how much I drink.  All I get from that is a sense of euphoria followed by guilt.  And probably a failed liver.


If shear volume worries you, don't ever look at the reports that tell you how much you spend on wine.

That aspect of this website is truly the work of the devil as it makes you really feel like an alcoholic when you see how much of your money goes toward this blessing/curse of ours. 

I have only looked at it once and have vowed never to look at that again.


_____________________________

"Quickly! Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever."
Aristophanes 450 - 385 b.c.

(in reply to pjaines)
Post #: 23
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/22/2008 9:29:26 AM   
rbazinet

 

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From: Toronto, Ontario
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Viewing how much wine you drank is one thing, but as RoundersRob pointed out previously http://www.cellartracker.com/forum/m_20347/mpage_1/key_feature/tm.htm#20347 viewing how much $ you have spent is where it can really hurt.  Maybe more like being in the accident?  The little note at the bottom (Refund/resale: $.00), doesn't help either.  

(in reply to Blue Shorts)
Post #: 24
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/22/2008 9:32:03 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

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From: Boca Raton, Florida
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all true but....as CL pointed out numerous times, money spent on wine perform better than money spent on stocks, and I can vouch for that!

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Post #: 25
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/22/2008 9:49:57 AM   
rbazinet

 

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Ok, but this report is wine consumed.
I doubt that wine consumed performs better than stocks purchased, albeit it is more fun!

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 26
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/22/2008 10:12:06 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rbazinet

Ok, but this report is wine consumed.
I doubt that wine consumed performs better than stocks purchased, albeit it is more fun!



RB, it all depends on the stock.

What would you rather had:
$20,000 worth of wine drunk or
$20,000 worth of Enron stock?
:)

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Post #: 27
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/22/2008 10:57:42 AM   
rbazinet

 

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I think we agree the former would be more fun.

(in reply to Serge Birbrair)
Post #: 28
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/24/2008 1:47:42 AM   
nwinther

 

Posts: 357
Joined: 7/28/2006
From: Denmark
Status: online
I personally find the score quite useful. I rarely read non-scored reviews on CT, especially if there's lots of reviews on the wine. I simply can't go through 125 notes, and the score helps me pick out four or five reviews that I do read.

It's sort of like, getting my attention. Like a heading in an article in the paper. If they were all just large and small amounts of text seperated by a few frames, I'd stop buying the newspaper. I need to know, that I want to read an article(/review) before I actually read it.

Also, I find at times, that a stand-alone review doesn't drives through it's point. Reading some Parker reviews goes to my point:

"One can find little fault with this medium-bodied, mainstream, charming, open-knit, soft Pauillac. It is dark ruby in color, with notes of cassis, currants, tobacco leaf, cedar, and licorice. Round, medium-bodied, and low in acidity, it is best drunk over the next decade."

and

"The dark ruby/garnet-colored 2004 reveals an herbal nose displaying hints of dirty saddle leather intermixed with roasted herbs, spice, black cherries, currants, and a green pepper-like character. It is a lightweight effort with medium body, superficial depth, crisp acidity, and sharp tannins in the finish. While it will keep for 10-15 years, and may become slightly more complex, it remains a major disappointment."

One wine he finds to be nice, the other one dissapoints him. Based on those reviews, which wine would you prefer?

To me, the first review sounds appealing. While it may be "main-stream" it's never the less a wine with a lot of apparant qualities. The other is superficial and decidedly unappealing. In fact, based on the review I'd steer clear of the latter.

However, when you add points (and the name of the wine) the plot thickens. Both were awarded 87 points. Now, suddenly, the first wine sounds less appealing, as, while being pleaseant, the "main-stream" now suddenly means "simple" or "uncomplex" (is that a word?). And the other wine wins a little, because while it may have been a disappointment to mr. Parker, it's not wholly a poor wine.

Adding the name (which one of course would know) makes the point very clear to the knowledgable wine-geek. The first one is a 2000 Croizet-Bages, a wine with a notoriously bad reputation, the second one being a 2004 Gruaud-Larose, known for it's availability, straightforwardness (and class) and the fact that Parker rarely cares for it. (Personally I completely disagree with mr. Parker. I find the GL a beautiful wine and not disappointing at all, though I'd "only" score it 91).

I often see this kind of "reviewing", where a reviewer (usually a writer) praises a certain area, like Provence, for it's delicious wines, (and surely they DO make nice wines, but too few of them are of any real class IMO) while the same reviewer gives a poor review to an individual wine (usually an underachiever), disregarding that this particular wine is far better than ANYTHING that comes from Provence.

It all comes down to pedigree. What are your expectations when you review? If you sit with a wine that you know (by reputation) is poor, but it appeals to you (at that moment with those salty snacks) you would tend to give it a good review, because it was nice, and much more so, than you expected. On the other hand, you sit with a wine of great repute, and it's actually rather disappointing. You will likely give it a poor review, using notes like "green", "too tannic" etc. But if you compare the wines, the "noble" wine WAS better than the "less noble" wine. But your review will not reflect that. THAT'S where I find scores the most useful. You can say "disappointing, green and too tannic" 90p, while "great effort. Lot's of ripe fruit and soft tannins" only yields 85p. because one, while not living up to your expectations, was still a superiour wine to the one that surprised you positively.

< Message edited by nwinther -- 7/24/2008 1:48:21 AM >


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Post #: 29
RE: The Wisdom of Descriptions vs Scores - 7/24/2008 2:19:53 AM   
Serge Birbrair

 

Posts: 1574
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: Boca Raton, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nwinther
It all comes down to pedigree. What are your expectations when you review?


My expectations when I review have nothing to do with pedegree and have EVERYTHING to do with the question:
What do I want to do next as far as this wine is concerned?

Do I want to lose sleep 'til I find more of this wine to buy?
(this would be the equivalent of 95-100)
Will I buy more tomorrow or should I wait 'til I see it next tine?
Should I buy it at all or bring back to the store what I bought already?

ALL my wine reviews deal with Shakesperean aspect of the wine:
"To buy or not to buy, this is the question!"
or
"To hold or not to hold"

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(in reply to nwinther)
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