Separate Ratings for French and California Pinot (Full Version)

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Blue Shorts -> Separate Ratings for French and California Pinot (7/23/2008 1:10:28 PM)

I know that there are differences between wines of the same varietal that are made in different areas of the world, but never have I experienced a difference as big as the difference in French and California pinot noir.

I've recently fallen in love with French pinots.  I enjoy the complexity and the vegetal nose and taste of the French wines.  I also like California pinot noir, but it's more of a fruity wine.  Both can be excellent, but they are so different in nose and palate that I think they should not be compared at all.

Maybe we could have two catagories... New World Pinot Noir and Old World Pinot Noir.

The difference is staggering.  It's like comparing an orchard to a barnyard, apples to celery, freshly cut basil to pears.

Maybe I just don't have enough experience with the French wine, but so far the difference is amazing.



Maestro -> RE: Separate Ratings for French and California Pinot (7/23/2008 1:34:24 PM)

Burgundy Pinot Noir and California Pinot Noir represent just the tip of the iceberg of the limitations of a rating system for wines.

What does it mean to say that a Barsac scored 95 points versus a Port which score 94? How comparable is that? Or worse, a Barsac againtst a red Margaux? It is the ultimate bananas and potatoes comparison.

Ratings can be midly useful, but only to the degree that the comparison is made in relation to a sensible peer group. Otherwise the surest way to only drink 90+ wines would be to drink nothing but dessert wines (see how often those score above 90...).



RoundersRob -> RE: Separate Ratings for French and California Pinot (7/23/2008 1:49:13 PM)

The Maestro is correct.  When considering ratings you must consider "peer groups".  Afterall, that's how the major publications rate their wines when doing official tastings.  They don't taste California pinot and French pinot at the same time.  They don't even taste Burgundy pinot and Loire pinot at the same time.





Serge Birbrair -> RE: Separate Ratings for French and California Pinot (7/23/2008 1:50:55 PM)

I think this board is finally getting some Identity of it's own

WS has biggest wine publication behind their Wine Board,
eBob has God Parker,
and this board has:
"Throw the points down the well"....
well, almost.
:)



fingers -> RE: Separate Ratings for French and California Pinot (7/23/2008 4:05:37 PM)

Just like the stated difference between Burgundy and Loire, I definitely find differences between Oregon and California, and South Island and North Island New Zealand.  Perhaps it's the "finickyness" (and charm) of Pinot Noir, for truly remarkable wines are made in all of those regions.  The most disappointing Pinot I've had was a Burgundy Marsonnay and the most spectacular was a Martinborough. To be fair I haven't had a La Tache or Laflaive but I think someone else here mentioned how Burgundy can be a minefield and I would just include all Pinot Noir as a process of "delicate discovery".  Planning to bring some California Pinot to the CT event so we'll see if it can measure up.  Good topic and I know some more interesting opinions shold be coming! 



Paul S -> RE: Separate Ratings for French and California Pinot (7/23/2008 8:02:23 PM)

Well, I may be the sole dissenting voice here, but I think there is some ground for comparing like varietals from around the world. I have had some new world pinots that are dead-ringers for Burgs, and some Burgs that are so modern, I would have sworn that they were new world if tasted blind - some times, it is a question of style or preference, but other times, some are really qualitatively better than others. Like comparing Golden Delicious Apples to Fuji Apples if I may use the analogy. Clearly different, and yet you can tell a good apple from a bad one. And this is coming from someone who is admittedly biased as hell towards Burgundy pinots.

Even the vegetal nose and taste that Blue Shorts spoke about is not so much a mark of Burg pinots, but something that all pinots from cooler climates on a poor or wet year have - some even consider it a flaw. There is certainly a green streak for many 2004 Burgs, but you certainly will find very little greeness in 1999, 2002 or 2005. Some "unusual", old worldly notes that might just be described as vegetal may arise if whole bunch fermentation is practiced in some cases - which just happens to occur more in Burgundy with some houses, like Leroy and DRC. Even then, there are many houses that totally de-stem, starting from the great Henri Jayer down. So that too is really a question of style and winemaking more than anything else.

And we have not even started talking about Chard - a myriad of styles, but even Leflaive's Puligny bottles can sometimes be confused with a heavily oaked new world example.



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