Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004

Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (Full Version)

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Maestro -> Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/5/2008 3:40:45 PM)
The prices are very attractive for Bordeaux for the vintages 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004. I have had quite a few 2001 and the wines from good producers were very seductive, approachable and early maturing. I had a few 2002 and they were no good. No good at all. Not sure if they are shutdown, but I just think they were tannic, green, and diluted. I don't have much experience with the 2003 and 2004 yet... Should give it a try. Anyone care to comment?

jhannah27 -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/5/2008 3:51:54 PM)
Don't know much about some of those other vintages, but I highly recommend getting some of the 2004's. All of the ones that I have had have been excellent, much more approachable now or in the near future, and very well priced.

RoundersRob -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/5/2008 4:01:19 PM)
I think 04s are great as well. I had an 02 Montrose that was really nice a few days ago. 03s are supposed to be really good but I think that's the most expensive of those 4 vintages.

GalvezGuy -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/5/2008 4:03:33 PM)
I tend to agree. 2001 was a very underrated vintage IMHO. There are a lot of rock solid wines out there that can still be had for reasonable prices. I have a few 2002's most of them are very angular but should come around. There were a lot of green wines in 2002. 2003, I have tried a few and think that they need quite a while. They seem approachable because of the ripe fruit, but I think they need time to integrate. The 2004s are very approachable and a great value. I highly recommend the 2004 Smith Haut Lafitte, probably one of the most underrated wines of the vintage.

JohnNezlek -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/5/2008 5:03:36 PM)
I have just started drinking some of my '01, with good sucess, for the most part. Most of these have been "smaller wines" that have been meant to be consuned earlier. I particualrly liked the Cambon La Pelouse http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=37142 and the Chantegrive blanc http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=71854 I have sampled only a few '02 Bordeaux, with a bunch more waiting in the wings. For what is meant to be a "bad" or certainly weak vintage, I have, so far, not been disappointed. 2002 Clos de l'Oratoire was fine for me http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=75635 Whereas the '02 Valrose seemed a bit youg, http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=102427 and the '02 Clus du Bourg was a totally unexpected pleasure (not dramatic, but I had very low expectations) http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=327228 The Gigault was just fine for what it is/was http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=447171 and even a second wine was dcent http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=377786 For '03, my tasting has been similar to '01 -- mostly smaller wines, but so far no losers. I have not had an '04 that I thought was really ready, even the smaller ones. I will add that I have not had that many, because I think it is simply too soon to drink them. Curiously, in terms of this thread, just this week, I went through my cellar and selected a few '01, '00, '99, and '98 Bordeaux to drink in the near future. I have mulitple bottles of almost all of these wines, and I am curious to see how they evolve over time. For those readers who are curious about why someone might collect and store wine, one reason is that it provides the opportunity to examine (more easily) how a particular evolves. Adds a little something to the experience, at least for me. Cheers, John

khmark7 -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/5/2008 7:35:20 PM)
2002 was a much cooler year and different profile. I'm finding many of those wines drinking very well right now, less herbal than 1996. As for 2003 I'm finding that the Cab dominant blends need more time, but the Merlot blends are approachable now.

Paul S -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/5/2008 8:34:18 PM)
2001 and 2004 are very similar to my mind - both very clean, good acdity, classic, with pure fruit character. There may be a hint of green in some cases, but my experience has generally been good. I think 2001 is probably the more forward of the two. Of course, it has more bottle-age. 2004 needs more time to come around. Both a re great value, especially the 2004 since everyone now lauds the 2001. 2002 is quite a sleeper vintage actually - I think some of the wines are coming around really nicely. Very friendly, approachable and probably good value if you can find them. 2003 is a love it or hate it vintage. Absolutely un-classic, heat-wave year. Good on the left-bank, where the Cab Sauv could take the heat, not on the right-bank generally, where the Merlot could not. Rather denser than normal, low acid in some cases, very fruit forward wines. Some are charming, like the Pontet-Canet and the stupendous Poyferre and a few of the Margaux wines, but overall, I would drink this, but it's not my favourite for Bordeaux.

pjaines -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/6/2008 12:16:17 AM)
The 04's need a more time to let the tannins blend a bit. I've tried a couple of my 04's (and Alter Ego and Lynch Bages) just to see how they were coming on and they definately need another 2 years or so before trying again, and probably 5 years before they are drinking really well. Of my experience of the 03's I have found them a bit flabby and lacking real depth. I'm not convinced for their aging potential (I usually buy 3rd to 5th growth bordeaux). I've been very impressed with the 2001 vintage - I think really hitting its stride now. Definately a good year for even lesser Bordeaux.

J2K -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/6/2008 5:35:21 AM)
This is good information especially considering the rising costs of the 05 vintage. 04 Pontet-canet @ $55 vs 05 Pontet Canet @ $ 100 There are still some 01--04 bottles available at my wine store and considering some can be drank earlier, are drinking well, and cost less.......

Paul S -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/6/2008 6:18:22 AM)
2005 PC is brilliant, absolutely. http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=217144 But saying that, the 2004 is good buy, although you will probably get more joy from the 2003 PC for early drinking. It really is quite lovely in a rather modern way. TN here: http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=18549

jhannah27 -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/6/2008 9:12:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: J2K This is good information especially considering the rising costs of the 05 vintage. 04 Pontet-canet @ $55 vs 05 Pontet Canet @ $ 100 There are still some 01--04 bottles available at my wine store and considering some can be drank earlier, are drinking well, and cost less....... It's funny that the 04 PC has been brought up. I actually had it in mind when I wrote my earlier post. Just bought another bottle of it last week (along with a 2000), and for $57 it's really great stuff. Although the 05 has jumped in price, I still think PC is one of the best values in Bordeaux.

J2K -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/6/2008 9:29:51 AM)
The questions is........is the 2005 vintage worth the jump in price or do you keep buying 2000-2004 where you can buy almost twice as many bottles of an 05? Probably mix it up. I have have enjoyed the 2003's myself. Haven't tried any 04 or 05's yet.

grafstrb -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/6/2008 11:19:50 AM)
Except for some low-level estates, I've been avoiding '05 ... I feel like I'm paying for the "2005" on the label, rather than just what's inside the bottle. Instead, I'm looking to 2004 and 2003 for my (admittedly occasional) Bdx buys. I've found the 2003 Cambon la Pelouse to be nice. http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=87560 A few weeks ago I really enjoyed the 2003 Ch. Caronne ste. Gemme. http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=87604 Both of these above-listed wines are <$20.

cgrimes -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/6/2008 11:26:43 AM)
I am intrigued by this thread as I have opened 1 bottle of 2000 St. Emilion (Chauvin) and while had good potential, was tight as a drum. I have tried none of my 21st Century Classified Bordeaux with the assumption that they are all too young--esp. the '02s. Even the '01 Reserve de Comtesse needed more time when I tried it 2 yrs ago. Would love to taste them but cannot afford to commit infanticide.

grafstrb -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/6/2008 11:30:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cgrimes I am intrigued by this thread as I have opened 1 bottle of 2000 St. Emilion (Chauvin) and while had good potential, was tight as a drum. I have tried none of my 21st Century Classified Bordeaux with the assumption that they are all too young--esp. the '02s. Even the '01 Reserve de Comtesse needed more time when I tried it 2 yrs ago. Would love to taste them but cannot afford to commit infanticide. Craig, Interesting that you mention this particular wine ... I (very much) enjoyed a bottle a few months ago ... here's what I had to say: NOSE: nice ripe red fruits; roasted; some nice typical Bordeaux stink; hint of dill and slight flecks of oak in the background. BODY: very dark; opaque purple-ruby colored. TASTE: earthy (forest floor) and leather; secondary notes of minerals and bitter black tea highlight the persistent finish (1+ min.); a well balanced wine, I'd describe it as round right now; it is slightly hollow on the mid-palate, and it does finish a bit hot; this is drinking well now (I'd recommend decanting for at least a couple of hours) but I get the impression this could easily improve over the next 5-10 years. A very nice wine...this is my kind of Bordeaux. B: 50, 4, 13, 17, 8 = 92 points

cgrimes -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/6/2008 12:02:10 PM)
grafstrb, I think we are in agreement about it being a good wine (RoundersRob also liked it). I just would have ENJOYED it more with more decanting or time, and since I only had one, feel as if I should have waited. That is the problem (also mentioned in another thread recently) about not getting multiple bottles given recent prices. Craig

Pavie Princess -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/7/2008 7:08:06 PM)
2004 Château Smith Haut Lafitte (France, Bordeaux, Graves, Pessac-Léognan) [image]http://www.cellartracker.com/images/camera.gif[/image] [image]http://www.cellartracker.com/images/wish.gif[/image] 6/11/2008 Pavie Princess 94 This wine was drank in serious company. It was blind with 5 firsts and other very pricy Bdx neigbors and it won WOTN. This wine was seriously shockingly good. After drinking it I went out and bought several and am now looking to add case numbers. This is a wine I want to drink alot. It was awesome from the outset. It was decanted over 8 hrs and its nose was awesome chocolately with mocha infusion wrapped in black fruit confit. It was pure and the sip was even better. I know this estate has a recent history of revival because of reinvestment but if I found the 04 this good I can only imagine how good the 05 will be. The wine mid palate has wet clay minerals cherry berry and toffee with cigar box and licorice. The finish is muted and why the wine got a sub 95 score but there is no question in my mind that this wine will get better with time. It was mind blowing good because it exceeded my expectation when it was unblinded to us. Every person had the wine rated above every first we had. This wine is must buy for the quality to value proposition but I recommend sitting on it for ten yrs. Cetainly now want to buy other vintages and can only imagine how good the 05 must be. 94 and heading higher in my view. Loved this bottle. (1205 views) 2004 Château Pontet-Canet (France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac) [image]http://www.cellartracker.com/images/camera.gif[/image] [image]http://www.cellartracker.com/images/wish.gif[/image] 6/11/2008 Pavie Princess 93 After sampling the 05 three times I decided to go out and buy some of the 04 BDX to match against the 05 Vintage. Guess what I am finding. 2004 was not a bad vintage. Infact on a value basis it is a drinkers vintage and there are some value pockets. This 5th growth is a perfect example. PC 2004 is a seriously good wine. The nose was solid and loaded with cherry berry fruits and chocolate. The first sip showed complete balance and a very smooth early Bdx. I am in utter shock of how approachable soem of the 2004 Bdx is this early. This wine is clearly closed down a bit but man is it smooth and pleasant to drink even this early. The mid palate had herb vanilla crushed stone wet clay and coffee. the finish showed well and had nuances of licorice cigar box and floral bouquet with creme de cassis. The wood is there too but hidden a bit. This one need decanting and aeration if you kill it early. I really like this wine and much like the 05 I bet it get 3-4 points in ten yrs. Serious value for the quality. 93+ This Chateau is Moutons neighbor and its wine has been killing Mouton now for a long time. This wine is superior to the 04 Mouton which got an 89 from me. PC is a keeper QPR. (2660 views) 2005 Château Pontet-Canet (France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac) [image]http://www.cellartracker.com/images/camera.gif[/image] [image]http://www.cellartracker.com/images/wish.gif[/image] 4/17/2008 Pavie Princess 95 I recieved several cases of the wine this week so I decided to try a few to assess quality myself. Opened the wine and let it sit for 4.5 hours. The bouquet was somewhat muted but I then aerated the glass I poured. That helped the bouquet come out behind the facade. It had lead pencil wet clay and mineral smell. The first sip was cherry and cassis and currant with hints of spice. The tannins in this bottle were strong but in another I opened up and let sit they were more reasonable. The mid palate revealed more spice vanilla and some licorice. The finish was long and i got more wet clay and minerality with cherry and berry accents. The aroma of the wine is pretty intense and the backbone of this wine is of great ilk. Perfect balance between the fruit and acidity. I think this one is going to get 3 - 4 extra points over its next decade. I would definitely recommend adding this wine to your portfolio. 95+ Points (2841 views)

Uncle Noon -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/8/2008 7:33:27 PM)
Since the 2005 prices, I have purchased a lot of 2001 to 2004 Bordeaux. The ratings are good and the price too.

Serge Birbrair -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/8/2008 8:27:22 PM)
Dear Uncle, what exactly taste better, ratings or the prices?

Uncle Noon -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/12/2008 9:21:17 AM)
The wine, Serge, the wine.

khmark7 -> RE: Bordeaux between 2001 and 2004 (8/15/2008 5:28:34 AM)
Was thinking that the last few 2002 Bordeaux that I had were rather nice, Chateau Camensac, Malartic Lagraviere and Grand Pontet. I would give some of the left bank wines a little more time.

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