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Differing Wine Glasses - 11/22/2007 6:24:47 AM

agh

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Can someone please tell me if it really is worth investing in specific wine glass styles - other than the obvious red v white? Many tasting notes on CT show the use of SB glasses etc.

Also do I need to decant both red and whites? If so, is there a general rule of thumb for how long prior to drinking the wine should be decanted?

Post #: 1

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/22/2007 6:47:15 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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Yes wine glasses make an enormous difference.
I once went to a wine tasting where the wines were constant and just the glasses changed.
The large Reidel glasses allowed the wines colour, bouquet and flavour to really show.
On standard (bar style) glasses the wine sank to ordinariness.

You don't need to decant whites, but they can throw up a deposit, so watch the last pour.

On red's I'm also confused, so let's see what others say.

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RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/22/2007 10:22:49 AM

mbannon

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From: Portland, OR
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I have three different styles of wine glasses and try to match the wine to the glass. It does seem to make a noticeable difference in most cases.

Whites generally do not need decanting. Reds are another matter. My feeling is that the "bigger" the red, the more it will benefit. How do I define "big?" Well...dark, stinky, earthy, tannic wines are "big" to me. So I typically don't decant silky, fruity reds like Pinot Noir, but ALWAYS decant wines from SW France, Rhone, Italy, Spain, etc.

I try to guess how big the wine is and decant appropriately. So if the wine is from Cahors or Bordeaux, I might decant three or four hours. If it's from Piedmont, maybe just a couple hours. It's not an exact science by any means.

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 3

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/23/2007 10:37:14 AM

Ricardo

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From: Ascot, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbannon

I have three different styles of wine glasses and try to match the wine to the glass. It does seem to make a noticeable difference in most cases.

Whites generally do not need decanting. Reds are another matter. My feeling is that the "bigger" the red, the more it will benefit. How do I define "big?" Well...dark, stinky, earthy, tannic wines are "big" to me. So I typically don't decant silky, fruity reds like Pinot Noir, but ALWAYS decant wines from SW France, Rhone, Italy, Spain, etc.

I try to guess how big the wine is and decant appropriately. So if the wine is from Cahors or Bordeaux, I might decant three or four hours. If it's from Piedmont, maybe just a couple hours. It's not an exact science by any means.

I am told you should drink good champagne if possible out of crystal (not glass) flutes as the rougher surface of crystal retains the bubbles. My ma bought some Riedel flutes and we tried them out a few days ago, they really are the bizz!

I am paranoid about good glasses (and clean glasses) but as regards decanting, I don't think there's a correct answer (don't decant champagne :->) I usually mean to decant and then forget to do it! With Bordeaux wines the younger ones may open out more if decanted, but as often as not they just stay dumb and you waste your money. Mature ones I don't usually bother with it doesn't seem to make a difference but I'm drinking these later than most people I think (Bordeaux reds don't throw huge deposits anyway in my experience). Stuff which throws a sediment (vintage port, some Cdp's etc.) must of course be decanted. A couple of weeks ago we had a fairly big name 1990 burgundy which I decanted and it was significantly better than the previous bottle I didn't decant, which is probably counter-intuitive (see above posting), which just shows there are absolutely no fast rules. Good luck!

(in reply to mbannon)

Post #: 4

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/23/2007 11:09:27 AM

JohnNezlek

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Although I can understand how and why people might be suspicious about the fact or possibility that the style or type of glass matters, my experience, and the experience of my wine drinkng friends strongly suggests that it does. For my drinkng, I have 5 types of glasses -- a large glass for "bigger" red wines such as Bordeaux and perhaps some Spanish, Australian, and Burgundies, and a smaller red wine glass. I have a Sauternes glass (these can be pricey -- Ravenscroft offers a very nice glass for under $60 for 4), a Riesling glass (Ravenscroft also), and then some simpler white wine glasses. I have some nice white Burgundies, and before I drink them, I will probably get the appropriate glass. Admittedly, some of this may be in the mind, rather than the nose or mouth, but that is not important. I found that the Sauternes glass improved even a simple dessert wine. With proper care, glasses will last a lifetime. If you are serious about drinking wine, why not provide the appropriate environment?

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Post #: 5

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/23/2007 9:10:25 PM

Corrado

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Here are my opinions.

Short version: Glasses matter & decanting will benefit most reds.

Long version: Varietal-specific stemware isn't a gimick. However, virtually any wine can be enjoyed out of a large (20oz/600ml) wine glass as long as it's somewhat bowl shaped (like this (_) or U) vs. a goblet (like this \_/ or V). What you get as you move from cheaper generic stemware to high-end varietal stemware are things like better quality, thinner glasses, cut lip vs. rolled lip, and shapes that maximize the experience for each varietal, both in the nose & flavor.

If you're going to buy one 'special' glass, you can't go wrong with a Bordeaux/Cabernet. If you're going to buy a pair add a Burgundy/Pinot Noir glass. For a trio, add a Fume/Sauvignon Blanc for whites. Beyond that, if you believe in stemware, add varietals you drink; don't waste money on Merlot glasses if you treat Sideways like the Bible. If you drink a lot of sparkling wine, you should own quality sparkling wine glasses.

I've read that you should consider spending per stem as much as you would spend on the wine you drink from it. FWIW, I know this recommendation will go 'stale' fast, but Amazon.Com currently has Waterford Mondavi stemware at 1/2 off ($25/pair, free shipping). I have a number of these glasses and I adore them. I'm a big fan of Spiegleau's Vino Grande for use with people you don't trust with your GOOD stemware.

DECANTING. I don't do it enough, but now that it's winter again, I'll probably start up again. The biggest drawback I've found is that unless you have a climate controlled cellar, once you've decanted a wine for +1h, the wine has reached room temperature which, for many wines, is too warm.

Decanting 'vintage' wines has the obvious benefit of separating the juice from the crud.
Decanting 'young' wines has the benefit of getting introducing some air to bring some balance to an unruly wine. If you have a wine that you know is better on the second glass (or second day), you have a wine that will benefit from decanting. The amount of time is a guess. Look @ the notes in CellarTracker and see if the previous posters have any comments.

I've found that some Pinots benefit tremendously from decanting and I've found some that suffer horribly.

(in reply to JohnNezlek)

Post #: 6

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/24/2007 2:52:32 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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Here's a good article on Champagne.
Big emphasis - temperature.
http://www.finewinemagazine.com/
You should find it on the bottom right icon on the inital page.
Luck,
L.

(in reply to Ricardo)

Post #: 7

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/24/2007 9:35:11 AM

GalvezGuy

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I hated this moment when I found it out, but stemware does make a different. I had that revelation when I attended a Riedel event and tasted the same wine from your garden variety wineglass and then the same wine from a Vinium series Bordeaux/Cab glass. I do have speciality glasses for Cab/Bordeaux and Pinots and they make a big difference and the stems for bubblies help as well. I don't have speciality glasses for whites because I just have not made any sort of investment in high end whites, although I am considering a glass for dessert wines because I am drinking more and more of these lately.

Cheers

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)

Post #: 8

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/30/2007 3:01:55 PM

Navydoc

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While I only joined CT a day or so ago, I have been enjoying wine for about the past 12 years. I used to think that Riedel was the only stemware I would ever use. Then I was introduced to Eisch stemware. While they don't have the huge variety of Riedel, they are by far the best glass I have ever used. They boost of having "breathable" crystal. I did a side-by-side comparison with Riedel and the wine in the Eisch glass opened so much faster. The company claims that 2-3 minutes in the glass is the equiv. of an hour of decanting time. If you're not one to decant on a religious basis you may find these glasses to be for you - infact, even if you do decant. The price per glass is only in the $12 range so you can have a whole set for the price of one Riedel. No, I don't own the company or even work for them; I'm just an avid wine consumer who wants the best out of every bottle.

As far as decanting - I give every bottle with less than 10 years on it at least 2 hours if not 3. Shiraz gets 12 hours plus sometimes. Older vintage wines may only decant for 30 mins - It's not like vintage wines (15-20 years) have much of a nose left as it is so I try to catch what I can before enjoying the wonderful, deliniated finish. The only time I decant a white wine is when I order a bottle at a resturant and it comes out almost frozen - why do they insist on using ice buckets again?

< Message edited by Navydoc -- 11/30/2007 3:03:53 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 12/1/2007 2:25:27 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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Not just air, but lots of hot air surrounds the Eisch breathable glasses.
Riedel say they don’t work and Eisch say they do – much as expected, so far.
http://www.decanter.com/news/152338.html
The laymen seem evenly split on the issue as well.
Bring on the real scientists.
Oh and GV – for some fun.

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Post #: 10

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 12/1/2007 7:10:07 PM

Corrado

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Well, shoot, as an aspiring avid wino and a wannabe scientist with a bit of experience in experimental design, I find myself drawn to Eisch stemware.

Here's my problem with their claim. Oxygen really doesn't WANT to go into water (which I hear is a pretty big part of wine). Even in a decanter the rate of oxygen transfer is pretty small. To exceed that the crystal would need to be VERY breathable. To be 20-30x *more* effective than a direct transfer between wine & air seems a bit far-fetched. I wonder if their 'breathable crystal' is made breathable by using trace amounts of the same substance used in the Clef du Vin that 'speed ages' wine for 1 year for every second its immersed in the wine glass. Vaynerchuk reviewed that gizmo and was convinced that it CHANGED the wine, but came to the conclusion that the changes had any relevance to aging.

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RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/10/2008 9:25:17 AM

jamscreator

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I've held off posting on this thread until I could conduct my own in-house research. I recently purchased some Riedel Vinum Port glasses and some Riedel Vinum Gewurztraminer glasses. I have drank the exact same wine from the Riedel port glasses and some 'ordinary dime a dozen' wine glasses I had previously. HUGE difference. As if the wine collecting and consuming hobby wasn't expensive enough, now it looks like I'll have to start replacing everything with quality stemware! I guess I can save the cheap stuff for the barbeques on the back deck......cheap stuff meaning glasses and wine!

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RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/10/2008 9:30:53 AM

NiklasW

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oh damn, I guess I have to look into this as well...the wife is certainly not going to be happy with the bank account...

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RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/10/2008 9:55:33 AM

DRHamp

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Yeah, me too -- gotta run my own tests now -- if nothing else, it's a good excuse to open another bottle or two.

For every day drinking, I generally use those double-walled stemless wine tumblers -- any pro/con comments on them?

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Post #: 14

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/10/2008 10:06:01 AM

jamscreator

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Haven't tried the stemless. I don't know, but I can't get too excited about them. Even though they're double walled, I still like keeping the heat of my hands (and they get HOT) on the stem or base of my wine glass. I'm not opposed to trying them, but I'm just not interested in purchasing any myself.

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RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/11/2008 9:37:46 AM

bobbiji

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If you have a Target nearby and don't want to spend a small bundle of wine glasses and decanters, check out their Riedel collection. I think it is made specifically for Target - it is not their highest end stuff but I find it to be of good quality and nicely shaped. Plus you can find some real steals - I found a decanter + 2 red wine glasses marked down to $9.95 the other day - regularly $49.95 I think. Nice stuff - it is their Vivant collection. I'm going to troll some of their other local stores to find more steals....

(in reply to jamscreator)

Post #: 16

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/11/2008 2:52:13 PM

mbannon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jamscreator
I guess I can save the cheap stuff for the barbeques on the back deck......cheap stuff meaning glasses and wine!

Gee, the lazy summer evenings on the back deck are when I bring out some of my best wine. Can there be a finer moment in life? Invite a friend or neighbor over and show them what a $50 Cabernet tastes like.

(in reply to jamscreator)

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RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/18/2008 1:31:47 PM

DRHamp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DRHamp

Yeah, me too -- gotta run my own tests now -- if nothing else, it's a good excuse to open another bottle or two.

For every day drinking, I generally use those double-walled stemless wine tumblers -- any pro/con comments on them?

Ok, for what it’s worth – I did run my own test – more out of curiosity than anything else. Not a scientific test, but it met my needs.
I purchased three different “Bordeaux” style glasses – 1 Riedel, 1Spiegelau Vino Grande, and 1 Eisch (breathable). I used these along with my “every-day” Bodum stemless tumbler.
The wine while it may or may not be important here was Kilkanoon Killerman’s Run Shiraz/Grenache. The wine was poured after the bottle had been open maybe 30 minutes.
I gave each of the glasses a good swirl and checked the nose. Here are my initial observations (please excuse my descriptions as I’m very much a novice at this. Riedel – lots of big fruit, but I most detected what I thought was alcohol and thought this will bring some heat. Next was the Spiegelau -- same big fruit, but much smoother – some alcohol/heat, but definitely less that the Riedel. Next was the Eisch -- Same big fruit, but very smooth with no alcohol/heat as before Last came the double walled stemless -- almost nothing – much less fruit …
At this point, I’m probably about 2-3 minutes into the test.
Tasting very much tracked the nose: Riedel – big fruit – some harshness/alcohol/heat Spiegelau – same big fruit and considerably less alcohol/heat. Eisch – same big fruit with almost no alcohol/heat. Tumbler – big fruit, for some reason somewhat dull with noticeable alcohol/heat. After about 10 minutes in the glass, they all pretty well evened out with only subtle differences though still detectable.
So, my preference – glass-wise was Eisch, Spiegelau, Riedel, and the tumbler a distant 4th.

A couple of hours later when my wife came home from work, I asked her to help me pick a wine for an upcoming party. I didn’t tell her that she would be tasting the same wine and only the glasses were different.
Her conclusions in order of preference were: The Eisch, Riedel, Spiegelau, and again the tumbler a distant 4th. She preferred the Eisch by a wide margin, and was waffling between the Riedel and Spiegelau for 2nd and 3rd. She was blown away when I told her it was the same wine, only different glasses.
Again, not a scientific test, but very interesting and eye-opening for me.

< Message edited by DRHamp -- 2/18/2008 1:33:46 PM >

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RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/18/2008 4:54:25 PM

Bill

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Hi to you all,

Glasses make a BIG difference!
I used some “general” good crystal glasses for more than 20 years and for the taste they were (and still are) just ok.
Only some years ago I found out about the BIG difference.
For the combination of serious tasting where you use your nose as well as your mouth it really makes a difference!

There is not one glass for all wines.
In a certain glass a Bordeaux can smell awful, while a Burgundy smells like heaven in the same glass.
And there are glasses where it is the other way around.
Sweet wines can benefit from special glasses enormously as well.

It is the lack of time that withholds me from writing more about it now. I might do it later.

The Riedel Vinum series are the relatively affordable glasses which you could use as a standard i.m.h.o. But there are some Spiegelau’s I really like as well.

But: buy a few different glasses (for the proper wine) and find out for yourself. Your own opinion is all that really matters!

Best regards,

Bill.

(in reply to agh)

Post #: 19

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/18/2008 5:19:21 PM

jamscreator

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DRHamp -

Fascinating information. What a fantastic test and GREAT detailed information. Will take this under advisement for sure. Cheers to you and your wife!

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Twitter: jamscreator

"Drink what you like, and like what you drink."
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Post #: 20

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/18/2008 10:15:45 PM

mbannon

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Thank you DRHamp, that was really interesting. I wish my wife were into wine enough to "trick" me like that, what fun!

Now that you have the glasses, you might consider trying a couple other wines in them to see if your preference changes. Maybe a Pinot would be completely opposite???

(in reply to jamscreator)

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RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/19/2008 1:16:00 AM

Colonel Lawrence

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Same experience, but at a Riedel tasting.
First tried a very average white in the standard, cheap, small bar glass.
Then transfered same wine into a Riedel glass and abracadabra!
If I wasn't the one doing the transferring I wouldn't have believed it.
An epiphany I believe it's called (of the secular variety).

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RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/19/2008 5:05:51 AM

DRHamp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbannon

Thank you DRHamp, that was really interesting. I wish my wife were into wine enough to "trick" me like that, what fun!

Now that you have the glasses, you might consider trying a couple other wines in them to see if your preference changes. Maybe a Pinot would be completely opposite???

As a matter of fact, we did open a Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc the next day -- we were about half way through the bottle when my wife said let's try the big glasses again. -- we did and the wine continued to be wonderful, with little difference between the Eisch and the Spiegelau. The bottle had been open for a while and that may account for the little difference detected.
Just as a side note, after the original test -- I decided I needed new red wine glasses. I wanted to order the Eisch glasses, but decided on the Spiegelau instead -- why?? The Eisch glass is a little over an inch taller (it's all in the stem) than either the Spiegelau and the Riedel and is just slightly too tall to fit in any of our cabinets.
The funny thing is -- my wife suggested that we look into new cabinets - ??

< Message edited by DRHamp -- 2/19/2008 5:06:52 AM >

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RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/19/2008 6:17:21 AM

berettafan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbannon

quote:

ORIGINAL: jamscreator
I guess I can save the cheap stuff for the barbeques on the back deck......cheap stuff meaning glasses and wine!

Gee, the lazy summer evenings on the back deck are when I bring out some of my best wine. Can there be a finer moment in life? Invite a friend or neighbor over and show them what a $50 Cabernet tastes like.

There are some lots available in my neighborhood!

Agree on the pleasant evenings on the deck.

(in reply to mbannon)

Post #: 24

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 2/19/2008 5:28:28 PM

jamscreator

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Once again, the problem I run into is that most of my friends (99.5% I'm guessing) know absolutley nothing about wine. My best memories are actually sitting on the back deck after soaking in the hot tub, enjoying a few bottles of wine. Yes, I actually do break out the better wines on some of these incredible nights.

If anyone is in the Indianapolis area this summer, let me know and I'll have a pour waiting for you.

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Twitter: jamscreator

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(in reply to berettafan)

Post #: 25

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/6/2010 12:17:10 PM

PSirah Tampa

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This is an old thread but I thought I would give it a bump for those who've joined in the last few years to read.

Yes Virgina, using the correct stemwear makes a HUGE differance in the experience of a good wine. I recently went to a Riedel tasting event (featuring the glasses, not the wine) fully expecting to be underwhelmed. Was I ever wrong.

The tasting was done in a lecture style with a representative from Riedel doing the presentation. When the presentation began we had 5 glasses in front of us:

A Riedel Vinum series Sauvignon Blanc glass with a Chilean Sauvignon Blanc in it.
A Reidel Vinum series Chardonnay glass with a very good California Chardonnay (that saw oak).
A Riedel Vinum series Burgundy glass with a very good California Pinot Noir (2006).
A Riedel Vinum series Bordeaux glass with a very good California Cabernet Sauvignon (2007).
A standard servicable restaurant wine glass- empty.

The lecture consisted of tasting wine in the proper Riedel glass, then in the standard restaurant stemwear, and then in the wrong Riedel glass. In each case there was a dramatic differance between the nose and taste of the wine. There were about 40 people in the room; everyone agreed that tasting the wine out of the correct glass was a huge improvement. I've repeated the test at home on a smaller scale and found the same thing to be true.

The Riedel Rep pointed out that the proper Riedel glass generally won't make a bad wine taste good, but it will make a good wine taste much better than if incorrect stemwear is used. I've learned it makes no sense to drink a $50 bottle of wine out of a $10 glass that makes the wine taste like a $30 instead of a $70 bottle.

The bottom line- spend some $$ on a set of good good quality wine glasses and pair the glass with the wine varietal. I suspect that anyone that properly tries this experiment will find a very exciting revelation.

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Post #: 26

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/6/2010 4:44:32 PM

musedir

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I collect late 18th-early 19th century stems, all free blown, and all have small bowls that are both v-shaped and basin-shaped. If any have used such stemware then you know these were produced in an era when the wine was stronger and portions were considerably smaller. All are high lead content in the crystal and wines always taste good when drunk from an Irish free- blown stem probably made around 1780.

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Post #: 27

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/6/2010 4:44:33 PM

musedir

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RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/6/2010 7:00:12 PM

Stirling

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I think that Corrado's reply is spot on.

I would only add that I am a glassware nut and we have tons of glasses here and, if you can believe it, 9 decanters. I am all about the esthetic and i really like the look and feel of good stems and decanters. No one, including me, needs the glassware I have (just another manifestation of the collectors sickness) but you will definitely appreciate how wines are more enjoyable from a large bowl.

To Corrado's point about decanted wines heating up, I too have found that so I usually put the wine in the fridge to bring down the temperature a bit before decanting. I tend to like my wines slightly cool (most reds between 60 -65 degrees) and I read that liquids will rise about 1 degree (F) every 10 minutes at room temperature. My cellar is at 56 so a one hour decant works out fine for me. If I am serving a young wine that I think deserves a 2 hour decant, I put the bottle in the fridge for 20 minutes before decanting. Living in Vancouver, I can also leave the deacnter with wine outside for a while through out most of the year.

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Post #: 29

RE: Differing Wine Glasses - 11/7/2010 4:43:36 AM

Khamen

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Stemware is one of the tools of our "trade" so worth investing in some good glasses to get the most out of your bottles. As an experiment take a nice bottle of cab and pour some into an ordinary small "bistro" type glass, and some more into a larger Riedel Bordeaux or similar. Bet you'll never use the little ones again...