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bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/1/2009 1:08:45 PM   
dsgris

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/31/2009
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I opened a bottle last night and it was bitter, undrinkable.  Is this what corked TCA tastes like?  I never had a bottle bitter before, some have been oxidized and off because of  being left out to long.

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RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/1/2009 1:36:59 PM   
jhannah27

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Anaheim, CA
Status: offline 		TCA is typically more of a moldy, musty, old wet cardboard smell and taste with little fruit.

My guess is heat damage, but that is a shot in the dark.

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RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/1/2009 1:55:30 PM   
grafstrb

 

Posts: 2196
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: Los Angeles, via Minnesota
Status: online 		which wine was it?  without knowing the wine, i'd guess it was over-extracted.

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RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/1/2009 2:44:38 PM   
fingers

 

Posts: 1529
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline 		If it tasted astringent and lacking in fruit, it was corked

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Post #: 4
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/1/2009 3:23:22 PM   
wineismylife

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 11/7/2006
From: Arlington, TX
Status: offline 		Yep, we're definitely shooting in the dark unless you name it.  My first guess was actually tannins.  I've seen many times when a heavily tannins wine tastes like bitters on the finish.

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Post #: 5
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/1/2009 4:46:56 PM   
J2K

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 5/5/2008
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wineismylife

Yep, we're definitely shooting in the dark unless you name it.  My first guess was actually tannins.  I've seen many times when a heavily tannins wine tastes like bitters on the finish.


I agree, especially if it's very young. I've experienced that with Bordeaux.

< Message edited by J2K -- 11/1/2009 4:55:24 PM >

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Post #: 6
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/1/2009 6:05:53 PM   
MindMuse

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 5/20/2009
From: Georgia, U.S.
Status: offline 		Yeah, not really a TCA profile. Which wine?

Was it Italian???

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Post #: 7
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/1/2009 6:13:42 PM   
Paul S

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: Singapore
Status: offline 		Bitterness might be from be from tannins of over-extraction of some alkalic compound, usually both in some degree. I doubt it is TCA. The most tell-tale sign for me would be the slightly fishy, wet-cardboard smell. Imagine leaving a fish to rot slightly in a damp cardoard container.  

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Post #: 8
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/1/2009 7:10:14 PM   
MindMuse

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 5/20/2009
From: Georgia, U.S.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul S

Bitterness might be from be from tannins of over-extraction of some alkalic compound, usually both in some degree. I doubt it is TCA. The most tell-tale sign for me would be the slightly fishy, wet-cardboard smell. Imagine leaving a fish to rot slightly in a damp cardoard container.  


For me it smells like my grandmother's usually-closed-off musty back bedroom. But then, you've probably never been in it. Come to think of it, neither have I in 35 years... But that, like a very corked wine, is just something that gets permanently imprinted in olfactory memory.

Once you smell a really awful corked wine, it helps you identify TCA in lesser concentrations in other wines. Including the very minimally afflicted one I am drinking at this moment...

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RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/2/2009 6:17:39 AM   
fingers

 

Posts: 1529
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline 		I agree with this assesment:

"The results of this contamination (TCA) are almost always unmistakable: The wine will smell like a wet basement after a flood or dirty socks left in the hamper a little too long: moldy, nasty and not at all enticing to the taster. On the palate, it will be astringent, lacking in fruit, with a raspy finish. Sometimes you may even notice a paint-thinner quality. "


http://nymag.com/restaurants/articles/wine/essentials/badwine.htm


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Post #: 10
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/2/2009 9:12:10 AM   
dsgris

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/31/2009
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Thank for all the replies, I do remember the wet card board reference from previous discussions.  This is a 2003 Terra Burdigala from Stephane Derenoncourt, Cotes de Castillion.  I have a number of his wines from France and Argentina which I bought about 5 years ago before I knew about this forum.  They were sold as premium wines to be aged and decanted.  Most are very astringent with out much fruit and not much finish.  This was the only one so far that was bitter, more fitting for a beer which I would love, not quite what I want in a wine.  I gave it another try last night and it was not quite as bad.  I blended it with another 2001 wine from this sales establishment the is very astringent.  I have been opening the wines to let them breath and that helps immensely.  I bought the '04 vintage as well and have consumed it over the year.  I kept the 03 longer because I read that the '03 was a better year than '04.  I personally think these wines were sold as premium when actually they were cheap crap and should have been drunk as soon as they left the ship.  Hopefully I have learned to research better.  For what I paid for these, I could have been drinking good stuff along with you.  Actually Derenoncourt owns or has an interest in Brown which is supposed to be a pretty good Château.  He also has properties in CA.  May be he made the crappy stuff I got from there also.
Ciao, Dennis
PS.  I  re-read your comments which pertain to a number of these wines.  Astringent, over extracted, no fruit, no finish, even the paint thinner taste applies in many cases.  How about a support group for those of us who bought a bunch of crappy wines?  Let me say that these are not reputable wines from well known producers.  If you pay; $10 for a wine and it is not too good, what can you expect?  These are $10 wines that cost many times that.  This is a long post I know, but when I revisit this subject, the blood pressure rises.

< Message edited by dsgris -- 11/3/2009 10:17:01 AM >

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RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/2/2009 9:34:28 AM   
jamjo

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 8/31/2009
Status: offline 		Did it have a slight amber tone or smell like sulfur ?

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Post #: 12
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/2/2009 9:40:25 AM   
dsgris

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/31/2009
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		No, color and nose were OK.

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Post #: 13
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/3/2009 5:10:03 PM   
wadcorp

 

Posts: 688
Joined: 10/29/2008
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline 		Yeah, the TCA hits me like wet cardboard, and my wife thinks it more like dirty gym socks. Both of those have been tossed around as "flavours" to watch out for.

.

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Post #: 14
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/4/2009 4:21:51 PM   
dsgris

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/31/2009
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		This is interesting.  On the third night the bitterness is diminishing, the body is improved with more complexity and the fruit is starting to emerge.  It is not great, but could now be consumed.  To improve it, I am blending 50/50 with a very harsh Cabernet.  The Merlot in the 2003 Burdigala moderates the Cabernet Sauvignon in the 2001 Morpheus and results in a decent wine.  Maybe the Burdigala is just too young, 2003 was a very hot year and it might just need some age.  I had a case of the '04 Burdigala which I thought was pretty blah and would blend with either some pretty heavy alcoholic, tannic Melba or Syrah.  I drank the '04 first because it was a weak vintage and the '03 was supposed to be better.

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Post #: 15
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/5/2009 5:07:29 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 3659
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		You do seem to like drawing out your suffering.

L.

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Post #: 16
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/5/2009 9:09:29 AM   
dsgris

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/31/2009
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		L.  They are almost gone.  I need to keep reminding myself how stupid I was so I will not do it again.  But then, I also can't through anything away. 

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Post #: 17
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/5/2009 10:15:48 AM   
grafstrb

 

Posts: 2196
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: Los Angeles, via Minnesota
Status: online 		In light of the fact that this wine is improving by day 3, i stand by my guess of over-extraction.

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Post #: 18
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/5/2009 1:12:00 PM   
dsgris

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/31/2009
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I will go along with the over extraction.  That seems to me to be the situation with many wines I bought from this outfit.  My bet is that they get wineries to use cheap fruit to make their exclusive wines which they pitch to wine wannabes who want to upgrade their "cellars" with better quality wines, not knowing they are purchasing cheap crap with a higher price.   In this case price does not equate to quality, caveat emptor.

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Post #: 19
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/7/2009 7:01:26 PM   
tanglenet

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 4/24/2005
Status: offline 		I've found this useful when trying to describe and identify wine faults:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fault

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Post #: 20
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/7/2009 10:44:10 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 3659
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Might help:
http://www.wineanorak.com/brettanomyces.htm

And my fav. problem crib sheet:
http://www.aromadictionary.com/winefaults.pdf

L.

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Post #: 21
RE: bitter taste, undrinkable - 11/8/2009 12:16:15 PM   
dsgris

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/31/2009
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Most helpful, thanks.

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Post #: 22
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