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v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/7/2007 10:44:31 PM   
Eric

 

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v 3.9.1

The CellarTracker Integrated Wiki... (So what the heck is that?!? Let me explain...)

Let me say right now that this is probably the most exciting new release for CellarTracker than I can think of in the past 2 years. Now it won't appear that way at first, but I predict that in 6 months you will see what I mean and perhaps MUCH sooner as this takes shape.

For a long time now some of the most common requests from users have revolved around letting people add producer profiles, winery notes, links to producer sites, alcohol percentages, exact varietal makeups for a wine and so on. The challenge in adding fields for all of these was that (a) it's a lot of code and (b) the overhead for me to maintain all of this additional information is oppressive. Fast forward to October 6th of this year. For the first time in a few years I found myself playing in a PuzzleHunt at Microsoft. I used to do a lot of these and other 24-36 hour non-stop puzzle events. For a while now Google has been a indispensable tool during these events, but this year I found myself using Wikipedia more than ever before. Plus I also maintained a small Wiki during the hunt for our team so we could keep track of puzzle status, solutions etc. I have used Wiki technology before (a Wiki is basically just a community editable website with some fairly clever conventions for formatting and linking), but for some reason something clicked in my head. It just seemed obvious. Literally hundreds if not thousands of you have been CLAMORING for ways to add richer and richer wine data to CellarTracker, and the answer was to take actual Wiki software and Wiki techniques and embed them in CellarTracker in a tightly integrated way. (One of the nice things about a Wiki is that any user can add/edit information, and a history of these revisions is stored in case someone goofs up.)

And so there you have it. Now you have two kinds of Wiki things to play with:
  1. On any wine detail page you can now easily attach articles to the specific wine, producer, type, varietal, designation, vineyard, country, region, subregion or appellation. And once you do so, those articles will appear on other wine pages as appropriate. These are rich fields with a powerful (only textual for now) formatting language that lets you create tables, lists, links and a lot of nice formatting.
  2. The integrated Wiki articles are terrific in that they appear when necessary. However, I don't want these to overwhelm the wine pages if a given article is too long. So, I have also integrated a full-blown, standalone Wiki site at http://www.cellartracker.com/ow.asp so that longer articles can be placed here and linked to from the inetgrated Wiki articles. As an example, here is a integrated article that now appears on drilldown page for every wine from the Region of Alsace: http://www.cellartracker.com/showwikirevision.asp?JoinType=Region&iIndex=1 and in the interest of brevity this links to a much longer article here: http://www.cellartracker.com/ow.asp?AlsaceEntryGuide
  3. You can see all of the integrated Wiki articles here: http://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?Table=CTWiki
All of this will frankly be a bit of a balancing act. The functionality is compelling enough and baked enough that I wanted to put it out there as implemented. I am hoping that people will respect the guidelines, use common sense and be open to editorial feedback from me and the community. This is a powerful tool but needs to be used in a particular way for best effect...

That was the meat of the release. For those very observant folks, I have had some Wiki articles running on the site for the past 5 days, and the feedback has been excited but also hesitant regarding the ability of these articles to overwhelm the wine detail pages. It was time for some long overdue cleanup and consolidation of the page. Frankly, more needs to happen, but this paves the way:
  • Effective immediately when you drilldown to a wine (if logged into the site) first you will see a section entitled MY HOLDINGS which pulls together your data on Inventory, Purchases and Consumption into one grouping at the top of the page. Community holdings have been decoupled and moved to the bottom of the page.
  • Next up is the block showing drinkability, valuation and your private note. Yes, odd cousins there but these have been together on the page since 2003. Will be changed to be more sensible in the future.
  • Next is the Wiki block showing the aforementioned integrated articles.
  • Next are personal and community tasting notes (with more clarity between these two sections). A future change here is to allow people to only show the most recent X notes etc. For very heavily tasted wines it is just too much of a good thing right now.
  • Next are the professional reviews, both the pre-integrated channels and any reviews that each user has privately added for themselves.
  • Next are the community holdings. In the future I will likely offer more summary data here and suppress the current gory stuff by default. Longer term this is where you only really want to see detailed holdings by default for your buddies. Yes, in the future there will be a much richer buddy concept on the site for those that want to interact. Trust me, I have been using Facebook, Cork'd and others and I have more than seen the light.
  • Finally your transactions. Likely to suppress those by default unless a user wants to turn them on. Mostly just good for helping people to 'debug' what they have done with a wine.
  • Also potentially in the future for those that want it will be a breakdown of all of this into a few tabs (holdings, reviews, community). Need to think that through and may wait on that until deeper facelifts happen on the site.
I also took the opportunity to cleanup the printer-friendly views, suppress more stuff that doesn't make sense when printing a wine detail page. And now the "guest" view of  a detail page is a lot cleaner and less noisy.

And so there you go. I have officially armed you to add a whole new level of data to CellarTracker. If each user does this for just a few of their wines the impact for the community and the wine world at large will be remarkable. CellarTracker is already the largest database of high quality wine information with nearly half a million wines out there. (Don't be deceived by other bigger numbers that you may see on some parasitic web-crawled sites. Most are rife with duplicates and ugly data.) If and when people fill in more details about the wines the additional utility of this database for all of us will be considerable.

By the way, special thanks to Laurens Pit who created the wonderful, modular OpenWiki codebase!
http://www.openwiki.com

Enjoy!!!

< Message edited by Eric -- 12/8/2007 12:58:38 PM >


_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine
Post #: 1
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/7/2007 11:48:58 PM   
WetRock

 

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OK......first attempt brought about a question.  When I went to enter varietal information for the 2004 Saxum Bone Rock, the 'Wiki' brought up a screen for me to enter an "article" on 'Syrah'! 

So does that 'Wiki' pertain to Syrah in general or to the specific wine, 2004 Saxum Bone Rock?


Thanks!

< Message edited by WetRock -- 12/7/2007 11:49:47 PM >


_____________________________

Cris Whetstone

(in reply to Eric)
Post #: 2
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/7/2007 11:52:59 PM   
hutch

 

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Thanks Eric!

It might take awhile, but this sounds like a fantastic idea.  I work in retail, and this has the potential to make a lot of research easier.  CT just keeps getting better.

Justin

(in reply to WetRock)
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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 12:01:35 AM   
Eric

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WetRock

OK......first attempt brought about a question.  When I went to enter varietal information for the 2004 Saxum Bone Rock, the 'Wiki' brought up a screen for me to enter an "article" on 'Syrah'! 

So does that 'Wiki' pertain to Syrah in general or to the specific wine, 2004 Saxum Bone Rock?


Thanks!

If you added that, it would link to ALL wines that have Syrah as the varietal. The one you want is the first choice in the list: WINE


_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

(in reply to WetRock)
Post #: 4
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 12:15:12 AM   
WetRock

 

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OK.  That could get messy but will see how it goes! 

Should be interesting to see how this feature develops.

(in reply to Eric)
Post #: 5
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 5:57:46 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

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Eric,
Sorry I may be slow on the uptake but if you could guide me a little more it would help me to ensue that anything I add is pertinent and legal":
If you take for instance my Almaviva 1997 I have many notes (e.g. Press/Journal Comments) under "misc.", would any of them be worthy/legal to include?
Or if you take my 2004 Kay Brothers Shiraz Block 6 Amery Vineyards comments (from Winery/Dealer) under "The Chateau"?

Sorry to be so specific but this is new for me.  Again I'm happy for you to disclose my data if it helps provide general guidance.

Now I'm off to study the actual mechanics of what you've detailed (remember we didn't all work for MS).

Great work - yet again.
L

_____________________________

First they came for ....................

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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 7:15:39 AM   
JBaldwinRN

 

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So my question is...if we want to include stuff from say, a wineries website (ex.  About them, About their Wines, etc...) we can include that, AS LONG as I disclose that it is NOT my material or that (ex.  This information from the winemaker's site)  Am I correct in this assumption?

(in reply to Colonel Lawrence)
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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 8:48:12 AM   
PaulH

 

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If it's a lot of generic producer info put it in a main wiki entry and link to it, as per Eric's example above.  We don't want 1/2 of a Cellartracker wine page to be the wiki entry.

(in reply to JBaldwinRN)
Post #: 8
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 8:50:47 AM   
Eric

 

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Winery material is pretty much fair game.

It gets tricky if you are reproducing material from a retailer (embedded offers, salesy pitch) or wine critic. Retailers have permissions to use critic's notes and scores, but other websites are not immediately granted that permission. So I don't want the Wiki to turn into a vector holding tons of Parker/Spectator reviews and scores.

You are doing an AWESOME job on the wine articles you are adding so far. The only tweak is to put the producer website into the producer Wiki article so it touches all of the wines from that producer. (I emailed you before I saw this post.)


_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

(in reply to JBaldwinRN)
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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 9:03:08 AM   
Eric

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaulH

If it's a lot of generic producer info put it in a main wiki entry and link to it, as per Eric's example above.  We don't want 1/2 of a Cellartracker wine page to be the wiki entry.

Here is an example that I worked through last night: We added a shorter article (maybe still a little long with the photo) on Kosta-Browne which is linked to all of their wine pages on CellarTracker: http://www.cellartracker.com/showwikirevision.asp?JoinType=Producer&iIndex=2935

And then a much longer entry: http://www.cellartracker.com/ow.asp?p=kosta+browne

And hah, I see that Paul shortened the linked article down a lot. As I said, this will be a balancing act. As a community we will agree on the conventions, how long is too long, etc. I am confident we can work it out, and I am eager to add code as necessary to help different users accomodate their desires. All I ask for is everyone's patience as we sort out this powerful new set of tools.


_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

(in reply to PaulH)
Post #: 10
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 10:01:21 AM   
J_Hayden

 

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Eric,

As usual, your additions and upgrades are thoughtful and very well done. Thanks for continuing to improve upon an already incredibly powerful resource.

J_Hayden

(in reply to Eric)
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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 10:10:09 AM   
Winetex

 

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Eric,
Fine job on the WIKI information and the field reorganization.  Pretty cool!

(in reply to J_Hayden)
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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 12:44:34 PM   
J_Hayden

 

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Hehe! Eric, you and I keep editing over one another on producer websites.

Is there a standard criteria for this that I've missed?

I'll change to your format:

"Producer website" with ? balloon icon to the right

no bullet (though I would like to petition for bullets in this case, I love bullets)

< Message edited by J_Hayden -- 12/8/2007 12:46:28 PM >

(in reply to Winetex)
Post #: 13
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 1:00:48 PM   
Eric

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: J_Hayden

Hehe! Eric, you and I keep editing over one another on producer websites.

Is there a standard criteria for this that I've missed?

I'll change to your format:

"Producer website" with ? balloon icon to the right

no bullet (though I would like to petition for bullets in this case, I love bullets)

Yes, I was thinking the standard for a Producer website should indeed be: [http://www.producerfoo.com/ Producer website] /i\

You had made various subtle changes like "Producer Website", "Producer's Website" etc. Figured it's best if we can keep them the same. Please no bullet--Already so much competing for the eyeballs...


_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

(in reply to J_Hayden)
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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 1:07:26 PM   
TampaDan

 

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Just fantastic as usual; thanks again for everything, Eric! And thanks for your instructions on how to remove items from my consumed bottles list, by the way.

(in reply to Eric)
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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 1:07:39 PM   
Eric

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WetRock

OK......first attempt brought about a question.  When I went to enter varietal information for the 2004 Saxum Bone Rock, the 'Wiki' brought up a screen for me to enter an "article" on 'Syrah'! 

So does that 'Wiki' pertain to Syrah in general or to the specific wine, 2004 Saxum Bone Rock?


Thanks!

Last night before I went to sleep I made some changes right away:
  • If a Vineyard, Designation, Region, SubRegion or Appellation are "Unknown"
  • On the wine drilldown page I called out the article on the specific wine and tried to add more context around the broader articles:
    Add new article: For THIS specific wine | For all wines with the same: Type, Variety, Designation, Vineyard, Country, Region, SubRegion, Appellation
  • When adding an article that will touch more than 1 wine (Type, Producer, Variety, Designation, Vineyard, Country, Region, SubRegion or Appellation) now there is a red heading on the "Add Wiki article" page that says: IMPORTANT NOTE: This article will be attached to 283 wines. (of course with the actual number)
So far today people seem to be doing a GREAT job. Again, there is a lot of flexibility here, and we need to work out (and enforce, partially through code) a set of policies. But in hundreds of articles today things have looked fantastic (and some people have helpfully been cleaning up and instructing). This is so great!

< Message edited by Eric -- 12/8/2007 1:12:34 PM >


_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

(in reply to WetRock)
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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 1:19:18 PM   
J_Hayden

 

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Eric,

Yup, I caught several of my inconsistencies and have been using the correct form. Now I'm following "GMP" around fixing his stuff.

How do you work hard returns into giant blocks of text? There is a recent addition to the integrated that you can see as a good example of the need for this. I've attempted some edits to no avail.

< Message edited by J_Hayden -- 12/8/2007 1:20:24 PM >

(in reply to Eric)
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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 1:22:16 PM   
Eric

 

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Stick <br> at the end of a line to force line breaks.

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-Eric LeVine

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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 1:23:26 PM   
J_Hayden

 

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ok, so that html works, got it

(in reply to Eric)
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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 1:24:47 PM   
Eric

 

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I fixed this one up: http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=345321

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-Eric LeVine

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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 1:27:30 PM   
J_Hayden

 

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I saw that, well done. Very readable now. I added another set of quotes in there as well.

(in reply to Eric)
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RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 2:35:03 PM   
mclancy10006

 

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Are you still sticking with the producer template http://www.cellartracker.com/ow.asp?Producer+Template or have we settled on shrinking it down so the Web Site or TOC are the only links in the integrated Wiki?

-Mark

(in reply to J_Hayden)
Post #: 22
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 4:02:49 PM   
Eric

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mclancy10006

Are you still sticking with the producer template http://www.cellartracker.com/ow.asp?Producer+Template or have we settled on shrinking it down so the Web Site or TOC are the only links in the integrated Wiki?

-Mark


I emailed you. The integrated articles should be a lot shorter than that template. I have reworked your examples.


_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

(in reply to mclancy10006)
Post #: 23
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 7:41:28 PM   
drdebs

 

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Eric:

Is there any way to move the Wiki down? Right now I feel in some cases I have to scroll forever to find the tasting notes, which are much more important to me than the Wiki, though I like that addition very much. But it seems to me that the Wiki information would be better at the very bottom of each page--not in the middle of it.

Just a thought, based on a few days experience with the new page layout which I'm not liking as much as the older one.

Deb



(in reply to Eric)
Post #: 24
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 8:03:03 PM   
Eric

 

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Deb,

Honestly, the *real* answer is just for me to let people pick which sections they want to see and in what order... What I may do is to enforce some truncation/max length on each Wiki entry meanwhile. Let's ride with this a little longer. It's only been a day...


_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

(in reply to drdebs)
Post #: 25
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 8:08:55 PM   
anevard

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eric

Deb,

Honestly, the *real* answer is just for me to let people pick which sections they want to see and in what order... What I may do is to enforce some truncation/max length on each Wiki entry meanwhile. Let's ride with this a little longer. It's only been a day...



Eric, it would be really nice if we could turn off sections, depending on what we are doing.  Often I do inventory verifications and will print out a wine page to see transactions and  locations,  I really don't want to see all the wikki and tasting notes. 

Other times I print out a data sheet on the wine.  With this, the wikki and tasting notes are important but I really want to hide  holding and transaction data.

Pages are starting to get long with all the new info.

Andrew

(in reply to Eric)
Post #: 26
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 9:40:39 PM   
JBaldwinRN

 

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Honestly, if the Wiki info was kept to a minimum or was forced to be entered into a Standalone page, it would help limit the length of each page.  For instance, for this wine, the "THIS WINE..." info really isn't that long, but with all of the other info (Producer, Country, Region, SubRegion, Appellation...) it does make the section quite lengthy, despite the 'links-only" approach.  Something to consider...

< Message edited by JBaldwinRN -- 12/8/2007 9:42:33 PM >

(in reply to Eric)
Post #: 27
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 10:16:09 PM   
iByron

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JBaldwinRN

So my question is...if we want to include stuff from say, a wineries website (ex.  About them, About their Wines, etc...) we can include that, AS LONG as I disclose that it is NOT my material or that (ex.  This information from the winemaker's site)  Am I correct in this assumption?


I think a better idea would be just create a "Producer" article containing nothing more than a link to the winery website like this:

[http://www.ramianestate.com/ Producer website] /i\


That puts a simple link that goes directly to the winery web site in a new window. No mess and you don't have to pick and choose.

(in reply to JBaldwinRN)
Post #: 28
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/8/2007 11:22:33 PM   
Eric

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JBaldwinRN

Honestly, if the Wiki info was kept to a minimum or was forced to be entered into a Standalone page, it would help limit the length of each page.  For instance, for this wine, the "THIS WINE..." info really isn't that long, but with all of the other info (Producer, Country, Region, SubRegion, Appellation...) it does make the section quite lengthy, despite the 'links-only" approach.  Something to consider...

Another approach is to put links to the standalone Wiki pages next to each of the values at the top of the page since there is plenty of whitespace there. Would be really easy in fact. Then in the Wiki section I would only show the Wine Wiki entry OR give an admin the ability to flag an article that SHOULD appear in that section. (For example there are some of the ones like on Caymus Conundrum, the Gaja crus etc that Andrew and I intentionally want to be rather visible to help cut down on data entry errors.)


_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

(in reply to JBaldwinRN)
Post #: 29
RE: v 3.9.1 - YEEHAW, it's WIKI TIME! - 12/9/2007 4:36:58 AM   
JBaldwinRN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eric
Another approach is to put links to the standalone Wiki pages next to each of the values at the top of the page since there is plenty of whitespace there. Would be really easy in fact. Then in the Wiki section I would only show the Wine Wiki entry OR give an admin the ability to flag an article that SHOULD appear in that section. (For example there are some of the ones like on Caymus Conundrum, the Gaja crus etc that Andrew and I intentionally want to be rather visible to help cut down on data entry errors.)


Now this is a great idea!

< Message edited by JBaldwinRN -- 12/9/2007 4:37:04 AM >

(in reply to Eric)
Post #: 30
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