Beautifully mature CA cab. Still with a lot of room to run, but drinking really well now. I like this wine as although fairly smooth, it has a gritty roughness to it as well, which I find attractive. Medium finish.
Purple Pium in color. Cherry, earth and floral elements on a very nice nose. Shines on the palate with loads of black and red fruits with hints of charcoal and earth. no tannin and drinking beautifully with much more time to come. Delicious!
- Brick color with slow forming legs. It's in total harmony with a medium/full body. Silky texture with a long finish - The nose on this wine is nothing short of amazing. Loaded with fruit. Red raspberry, black cherry, strawberry to name a few. The tannins have mellowed beautifully and a wine to really enjoy.
This was an intense red juicy cherry and red raspberry wine with lots of sweet tannins and acidity. It was fresh, supple with a long clean finish. Some blood orange notes and some minerality. Tasted young and somewhat primary to me but delicious and a great food wine.
This was absolutely delicious. I am adding notes a couple of weeks after the fact. I opened and poured through a Vinturi. My wife and daughter both said that they would only have a little taste and weren't in the mood for wine. Ha!! We finished the bottle over grilled steaks and could not stop talking about how delicious it was. There is a neat core of fruit and heady aromas of blackberry, raspberry and forest floor. It is a rich wine and consistent with all the great ACVV I have had.
From a magnum. One-hour decant. Rusty red color. Not much nose at first but when it opened up after 45 minutes or so it began to strut its stuff. Certainly not blown away like I have been with other ACV's but, all in all, a good, not great, bottle. Will drink the second half of the bottle tomorrow hoping for some improvement.
Couldn't keep hands off another bottle of this after last month's great showing. Enjoyed next to a seriously endowed single-vineyard Peju cab of the same vintage against which this--I'd say the lesser wine despite many similar characteristics--was thinner, more bordeaulaise in bouquet and flavor profile, and more evenly distributed in the shape of its flavors.
(Decanted for one hour.) I last had this wine over a year ago. Why did I wait so long? It remains one of my favorite ACV reserve cabernets and is currently firing on all cylinders: a gorgeous dark color, a rich flavor profile of ripe dark fruits, chocolate, herbs and soil, and an ultra-smooth long finish. Yes, it is big in its Californian way yet it is also stylish and complex. It is not fading at all and I suspect another ten years (at least) of development ahead. And it is a perfect accompaniment to rare beef! Who could ask for anything more? 96 points.
Deep and dark ruby red. Essence of toast, licorice, pencil lead, blueberries and riasens. Layers of coffee, toast, pepper, casis and mint. Very well integrated tannins which supports a pleasantly long finish. Very impressive wine.
Decanted three hours. Dark garnet color in the glass. Nose of green peppers, vegetables, earth, and the slightest hint of dark fruit. The palate consisted primarily of green pepper. Once heavily aerated in the glass, the green pepper subsided a bit and you could get a sense for the dark fruit and 22 months in barrel.
Had along side a 2001 Grace Family Cabernet. Two completely different wines. Grace was more depth, bordeaux style, with an amazing bouquet. Conn Valley was a deep, rich, napa cab. Notes of chocolate and spices this wine was very pleasurable with steak. Long finish.
In an excellent place with cherry, plum, spice, subtle oak and a hint of vanilla on the finish. I could see this going another decade this is one of the most consistent Napa wines one will find for under $60 on a regular basis. Well done Todd!
Nose: There is a lushness, but with excellent balanced along with dark red cherries, herbs, cassis, bell pepper, spice, currants. While there is an intensity to the fruit, it is far from overdone.
Taste: Full bodied with medium acidity and sneaky tannins. There is a plushness to the feel, but well balanced with dark red cherries, red fruits, bell pepper, currants, and some bits of herbs on the back end.
Overall: This is drinking very well if you want some more fruit. The structure is still very much there and this does feel like another couple of years will do it some good.
Decanted and then drank over two hours. Initially, stewed fruit, herbs, espresso. Full bodied, long finish with a pucker at the end. Drank this with dinner. After dinner was glass 2. Wow, just wow. It had changed into leather, roasted herbs, dark chocolate, dark berry, pepper. Full bodied, minute long, seamless finish with silky smooth tannins. This is what I hold wine for, the wow factor. And I have 4 more of the case. Awesome!
Lovely nose that has a little of the sweet fruit-bomb tendency of a napa cab but quickly balances it with a more earth and subtle and deeper bordeaux quality. Slightly acidic, but in a positive way. Drinking well now, and will probably get better. Got noticeably better in the after 2 hours of being open.
Night one the wine was very tight and had hints of herbs and unripened fruit. It had good structure, decent balance, but not entirely impresses ... which was disappointing because Anderson Coon Valley Reserve is one of my favorites. (90)
Night two ... this wine was awesome. The air really did it justice. Pretty nose of cassis and herbs. Fantastic mouth feel. Good, integrated tannin structure. And a very long, enjoyable finish. (95)
You could tell this was quality wine, but there was a musty note (TCA?) that never blew off after multi-hour decant. Was also a hot/tart streak that never smoothed out. Fine tannins and mouthfeel. Dark fruit, but nose was muted. I expected a better experience give the multitude of 92-94 ratings.
Popped and poured. Very nice nose of sour cherry, tobacco, cranberry and dirt. On the palate, cranberry, sour cherry, tobacco, blackberry, spicy oak,. Dry finish with soft tannins. A great wine that was outshone by the 04 Beringer.
Didn't mean to open another one so soon after my last bottle, but it is hard to resist. This bottle was more developed than previous bottles. Subtle nose of tertiary aromas of cassis, spice and leather. Medium-weight with perfect balance and an elegant mouthfeel. Medium, fruity finish. Complexity, weight and texture are more like a bordeaux than a California cab.
Six weeks ago I popped and poured this wine and thought it was great. I decanted another bottle for two hours last night and thought it was even better. The color is dark, brooding and rich. A very classic cabernet nose: cassis, vanilla, tobacco, soil, menthol and saddle leather. It smells right and expensive. This is a big yet elegant wine in the mouth. Stylish, I kept thinking. It has ripe raspberry, cherry and currant flavors underscored by dark chocolate, moist soil and just a suggestion of mushroom. The underlying acidity makes these flavors ring clear and true and the smooth tannins keep everything in check. And perfect balance: Bordeaux restraint meets California ripeness. This really is an impressive wine, and it has room to grow. My new go-to California cab too? 96 points.
This bottle was quite spectacular. Rich, ripe, complex, powerful, lush and deep. Gobs (that is the only word that describes it) of cassis along with oak/vanilla, leather. earth and herbs. Full-bodied and massively concentrated with a very rich, lush texture. Big, fruity finish. In spite of all the rich, sweet fruit, it somehow reminds me of a bordeaux. Somewhat restrained (i.e. not overdone), elegant and complex with near perfect balance.. Not yet fully mature, but drinking very well. Conn Valley has become my "go to" cab and this is another example of why. 94-95
Still young, this rich, concentrated, juicy, round wine offers ripe blackberries, licorice, vanilla, earth and forest floor aromas. The wine hits all the right spots ending with a blast of ripe, sweet fruits. The wines from Conn Valley remain some of the best values for price, quality and style in Napa Valley.
Deep ruby with a hint of garnet at the edge. Classic and subdued cabernet nose of cassis, smoke, leather, herbs and cigar box is very satisfying. Full-bodied in the mouth, with ample fruit mid-palate. Sweet berry flavors are very clean (not overripe) and combine with rich tobacco, chocolate and Bordeaux-like earthiness. The tannins are very smooth and the acid is just right. The overall effect is that of an elegant, sophisticated, first-rate wine. Contrary to some reviews, this superbly balanced effort still seems fairly young. It will get slightly better over the next 10 or so years as the secondary aromas come forefront. It may even merit another point. 95 points.
There's really nothing not to like about this wine. It's plenty of fruit and oak for those who like that, but with enough subtlety to please the more Old World purists. Lots of currant but tobacco and leather as well. I thought it would need more time and more decanting, but it's drinking well now, with only a brief decant.
A rewarding cab that brings forth some restraint amidst so many that go over the top. Captivating notes of leather, herbs, currant, and tobacco. An elegant wine to be enjoyed with a meal or on its own.
Notes after slow-O'ing for 24 hrs. Dark hazy garnet color, about 80% opaque, very slow, lightly stained legs. Average sediment. Generous nose features olive tapenade, blackcurrant, raspberry liqueur, herbs, and fennel. Full grown palate with easy tannins and a clean saline backbone. Fruit is dry and persistent. Balance is outstanding. Now showing secondary character and probably reaching it's peak window. Not sure I would count on it going as long as the CT avg date of 2026. 4+12+18+7 = 91
Decanted through a Vinturi two hours prior to tasting. A strongly herbaceous nose follows through to the palate. Soft and mid-weight, the sage, bay, and underbrush are too persistent for the struggling fruit to emerge. Turns out to be the little train who couldn't, but still, a nicely made and enjoyable bottle.
Decanted for about 1.5 hours. Still some tannins that need to resolve themselves, but with two hours of air, this is an amazing wine. No detailed notes as this was consumed a few nights ago. Will hold my last bottle for several more years to see where this goes.
I drank this magnum at my 60th birthday party at Di Fara's Pizza in Brooklyn. I probably should have opened this first, before the '10 Schrader Old Sparky. The Schrader overpowered the ACV. After drinking near perfection, this wine (ACV) never had a fair chance. It tasted weak and limpy by comparison. I will say that there's no rush to drink the '05. I probably would have rated this higher if the Schrader wasn't in play.
Still a big bold black fruit driven wine. Liqueur berries, rocks, dark pencil shavings and char coal. Bigger and robust. Dark coffee grounds, some plump rhubarb, pepper spice, burnt caramel, dark roasted nuts. Clean and silky mouth feel. Big finish but on day 2 the alcohol and tannins settled in nicely.
Big blast of rich, ripe cassis aromas filled the room on opening. Aromas of cedar and charcoal along with the cassis on the nose. Big and rich with a massive body, amazing concentration and huge structure. Tannins are still rough and somewhat dry, but also well matched to all the concentrated fruit. Long, long fruity finish. Very different from a bottle I had about a year and a half ago and much more typical of other vintages of Conn Valley Reserve that I have had. While very drinkable, it is still a bit young and rough. This will undoubtedly mellow and improve with more time. A terrific example of a big California cab.
Dark plummy fruit and a clear hint of green pepper in the background give this varietal correctness, but the aromas still seem young and undeveloped. The palate has a solid, mid-plus weight feel to it, with the fruit not displaying the obnoxious sweetness of a recent '02. The savory aspect is much more in play, and there's a respectable level of acidity as well, even if it's lower than some might prefer. The tannins are grippy and chalky still. This needs time, and I hope it will repay the patience.
Subtle but nice nose of black licorice, herbs and a little soy sauce. The palate shows bright red berries with lots of acid and again the hint of soy. A food wine with medium weight and almost fully integrated tannins. Good.
Second bottle of the night after 2009 Caymus Cab. Decanted and poured. This is the second bottle of the case, first one drunk in July 2011. What a difference 6 months made. The tannins have resolved into a well balanced, lively, full bodied wine. Black cherry, dark chocolate, some leather, coffee notes. Good acidic backbone and strong finish. Still young and should continue to age well. For me, not sure if the secondary notes it will pick up will be better than the fruit core it has now. Happy I went for the case back when.
Very deep, dark ruby-black color. Popped and poured. On the nose I get pine bark, dark cherry and milk chocolate. The palate is a very tightly wound core of dark fruit, with maybe some charcoal or burned wood notes. While there's great concentration, this is still very young and primary -- not decanting was a bad mistake. We'll see how it opens up when I consume the second half the bottle tomorrow...
Opened up quite nicely on night two, which portends well for the future. Great fruit and structure -- I could kick the score up a point or two as a result...
This was a little closed. The fruit was in the background, the palate was very oaky. Dark fruits, lots of cedary oak. Medium-full palate. I rushed it out, I think it would do better with a couple of hours in the decanter.
Agree with other notes that this has plenty of structure and good acidity. A little less sweet to balance than I was expecting. It has nice blackcurrant and cherry but begins to turn a little dried herb and brush like on the nose and finish. Overall very good, but not quite the depth or polish I was looking for.
Started purple, minimal nose, minimal tannins, a bit thin and flat (rating a 86). Then significantly improved after 30 minutes. Herbs, tobacco, started to show up. developed very well. I expect that another hour would have been fantastic.
Decanted for 1/2 hour and drank over 4. It took a while to open up to dark fruit, herbs, espresso, dark chocolate. Full bodied, good finish. The tannins had still not resolved after 4 hours to my taste. This should really come together with some more cellar time.
In a mix of wonderful wines, this one stood out tremendously. VERY darkly concentrated with a finish that last for 30+ seconds. Dark berry, big fruit, rich comforting tannin (not bitter), a black hole of delish
This was a wonderful wine. Plenty of structure and still young, but great nose of fruit and perhaps a bit of mineral/graphite. Rich, yet well balanced with not only tannin but also some acid. Improved (even with 2 hours decanting) as others have noted. WE notice others liked, but actually few comments about the palate. We thought there was plenty of dark fruit, but with tannins--it will hold up well. Also the mineral/graphite in the mouth--not really European in style, but not the anticipated fruit-forward CA cabernet. It was the wine of the night, including an Insignia.
Opened for 6 hours before consumption. Should have decanted it. Still had a small pucker from the tannins on the end. First taste and mid-palate smooth and good dard berry flavors. I will wait another 2 yearss to try another one.
Marked development from earlier tastings since release. Robust Cabernet nose on first pour. Rich, multilayered palate. Youthful hard edges mostly burnished. More masculine than sublime. A very solid standby at a reasonable price point. Ready now and built to last. 94+
As with other posters, I opened about 2-3 hrs before drinking and was rewarded. My guests commented that it just kept getting better as the night continued. Paired with porterhouse and wasn't disappointed.
Aromas of sweet blackberry with a touch of minerality and a floral component. Soft mouthfeel with medium body. Nice cassis fruit on the palate with a bit of cedar on the med-long finish. Tannins have softened up quite a bit since the last time I tried this wine (01/2009).
Textbook Napa Cab with ripe black cherries, a generous dose of chocolate and a hint of menthol/eucalyptus. Very nice flavor profile. Tannins are present but reasonably soft and enjoyable as you'd expect of a wine this age.
I think the label could stand a redesign. To my eye it looks cluttered and cheap, which doesn't align with the product in the bottle.
This wine changed pretty dramatically during the course of about 3 hours. Started out a bit soft and flabby, then took on a lot of structure and finally turned a bit soft again. Big nose of rich, ripe concentrated blackberry and cassis with a good dose of oak. Massively concentrated, very fruit forward and somewhat overripe with vegetal notes emerging over time. Overall this was basically a giant fruit bomb (albeit a tasty one), and not really typical of Conn Valley Reserve. I will not score as I think it was either an off bottle or slightly corked.
Had my first bottle of this in Dec'08 and one each year for what is now the 3rd year and just loved watching this wine blossom into a fantastic experience. Started out at a 91 rating 2 years ago and this year its drinking fantastic.
When I poured it I thought it was going to be a bust because it literally smelled like kool-aid but in the next half hour it put out fantastic fruit and blossom aromas and screamed cabernet. No better than medium bodied at first, within an hour it had gained substantial weight and personality and by two hours it was get-outa-here superb. Round and smooth on the palate, absolutely nothing out of place. Perfectly integrated, smooth tannins with just a touch of sweetness that served to further fill out the picture. The nose was great but even better was the long, antoxicating finish that first wound its way upwards from the palate thru the nose then captured the taste buds and held them for more than a minute. Damn this is a good wine.
We typically have a half bottle then cork it and cellar it for the 2nd night but this time we sipped and sipped and sipped until it there was no more. It was impossible to put down until suddenly it was gone.
This wine is outstanding and is really drinking well right now! Blue and red fruit mixed with dark chocolate. A touch of toasted oak (just a touch). Firm, mouth coating tannins and a finish that goes on and on. Almost makes me feel guilty that I opened this without my wife. ;-)
Similiar to prior notes... Color: Dark Purple Aroma: Earth, plum Taste: More plum like now with a dash of vanilla and oak. Underlying, a layer of coffee. I still think this has time in the bottle. The tannins are nicely integrated now, but still has a bit of an edge.
Delicious. Very fruit forward on palate w/ nice complexity. Some initial funk on the nose that blew off after a bit. Nose was fruity but subdued. Decanted for 2+ hours before drinking. Quite drinkable now. Had one of the better (perhaps the best?) showings of several 2005 Cali Cabs we tried that evening, handily beating a pretty closed 2005 BV Georges Latour (although the Latour had a better nose).
Big dark wine. Dark fruits, spices, vanilla, oak. Full bodied. Concentrated new world fruit with sweet tannins and a long finish. Outstanding value. My rating will very likely rise after some aging, but it's very approachable already. Definitely seek this wine out.
This is a wonderful wine. Riper than the 2002, but not quite as integrated. Nose of cassis, bell pepper, and dust. Some vanilla notes on the nose too, but far from overbearing. Medium bodied with a solid core of fruit. Opened up over the night with decanting. Tannins are well balanced with the fruit. I bet this will improve over several years.
Had this wine to celebrate my birthday - though we didn't have time to decant, the wine was very smooth upon taste - nice dark ruby color, sharper scent (relative to an Opus One we also had) - we thought this wine was great - full flavor, smooth finish (relative to slightly more heat in the Opus, also less "oakey" flavor as well). Would highly recomemend.
Double aerated and left in decanter for a couple hours. Deep ruby color almost opaque at the rim. Complete agree with Parker, a ringer for a top notch Pauillac in terms of aroma profile. Lots of nice creme de cassis, tobacco, leather and agreed, a hint of smoke. More layers of well extracted dark cherries, fig, and pleasantly charred oak in which it spent 22 months. A big wine on the finish. Pure and persistent the alcohol doesn't come across at it's whopping 15.1%. Nice acidity is showing in this bottling and there is some serious potential for long term aging. Approachable now, this wine shows the extraction and fruit drive of a new world wine with the finesse and terroir shown in left bank Bordeaux. Profound.
Dark color. Nose shows off an array of aromas with cherry, smoke, oak, plum, spices and vanilla. Big wine with the palate showing off a mix of dark fruits and earth characters. Long and concentrated finish and big tannins. This is a cellar selection and again the best $50 Napa Cab.
Decanted for 2 hours. Nose of pipe tobacco, vanilla and slight oak - very old-world style cab. Structured, layered fruit of plum and blackberry. Very fine, velvety tannins. Finish went on for 50 + seconds. A serious cab, one that would rate with others 2-3 times the price. Drinking well now but could cellar for a handful of years. Will be on the lookout for the '07.
1/2 bottle - rather earthy with some chocolate notes. Quite young and tannic but there is nothing about this that makes me want to buy it and wait. Good blackberry fruit but it tastes a little muddy to me. I've never thought this wine was anywhere near the best that Napa has to offer and this bottle is confirmation of that.
Incredible Cali Cab at this fairly entry-level price. Solid without being thick, powerfull without being overwrought, this red fruited beauty sings in the glass with a modern sensibility. Full bodied and smooth with delicious vanilla, coffee and spice flavors. This is the wine that all those $10-$20 dollar cali-catastrophies are trying to emulate.
popped and poured. Initial nose of fresh cut grass, cherry liquor and vanilla. On palate it had massive black fruits, vanilla, sweet oak (in balance), and smokey flavors. The tannins were very harsh, as expected, with a herbal bite. After 90 mins the tannins has mellowed quite a bit. Very nice wine that should hit stride in another 3-5 years meriting 2-3 higher pts.
Initial funk on nose burned off eventually. Alcoholic (15.1%) but less evident on palate. Glyceric mouth feel and sturdy legs. Still decidedly tannic. Creme de cassis predominates. Despite negatives, exhibits major potential for long term improvement which is reflected in the score.
Ripe, smooth and harmonious, showing complex layers of currant, cedar, coffee, dust and blackberry, this outstanding California red unfolds to reveal a supple texture, then firms up nicely on the finish.
Color: Dark Purple Aroma: Earth, plum Taste: Cherries, currents with vanilla, graphite and a touch of oak It had a lingering finish, though not as long as I expected. This wine is a little young. A few more years, and I would expect it will have aged nicely.
What a great bottle. Dark ruby red color. Huge fruity nose with blackberry, black currant, plum, sweet tobacco, and a slight floral aromatic. Medium-full body with beautiful, clean fruit. The palate is a cascade of fruit. Great balance with sweet, mellow tannins. Long, delicious finish.
This is a good value wine, but not a 96 pointer. Opens after about 30 minutes of air time. On the nose a little Rhone-like barnyard, blackberry and vanilla. On the palate, blackberry, brown sugar, molasses and cinnamon. Big tannins provide a long, dry finish, and the cinnamon on the palate lasts a little too long, literally minutes. I gave the '94 Harlan from last night 97 points, and that wine was more than 1 point better than this Conn Valley. This wine will improve with age, but I would guess 92 points at max. I prefer the '05 Eloge. The Parker Palate Premium strikes again.
Great bottle nice nose with black current and blueberry, cherry on the back, smokey, even a hint of a sweet spice maybe cinnamon with nice oak. This is straight up cal cab good tannins off and on with a med to long finish. Drink now through 2016
Will score higher when it comes together. While it drinks well now, it is slightly out of sorts. Needs some time to gain some weight and secondary character. Well put together in a more traditional style (e.g. not overextracted, fruit bomb).
Wonderful black/violet color. Rich bouquet of tobacco, dark fruit and leather. On the palate this needed serious air-time to come together. For the first several hours in the decanter I was disappointed; the flavors seemed disjointed with the leather-tobacco flavors joining the charcoaly acidity and dominating the fruit in a way I found lacking, hedonistically speaking ... Soon enough the fruit came to the fore and the richness of the total package was just heavenly. For 50 bucks (or less if you're savvy) a total steal!
Opaque (black) robe. Very intense nose of assorted black fruits (currants, cherries and berries), vanilla and cardamom. Full-bodied on the palate, with low acidity, big ripe tannins, medium oak and ripe black fruit flavors which mirror the nose. The middle palate is full and the finish is long. This will not be mistaken for Bordeaux, but it is a crowd-pleaser and a wine which typifies how nice Napa Cabernet can be. Short-term cellaring will likely be rewarded. Thereafter, the wine has the structure to drink nicely for at least a decade. Drink 1/11-12/21.
Decanted for 1 hour. Med-dark purple color. Somewhat alcoholic nose with graphite, blackberry and hint of earth. Medium body. Flavor of oak, some cassis and anise, hint of green pepper. Medium tannins with long, dry finish. Agree that this wine is a combo of new/old world styles ( just what I've been looking for). Awesome wine for the price that will certainly improve with time.
wine is very dark purple and very concentrated with cassis dark cherry and black fruit. The wine is extremely tannic and very closed. It hurt its score but I think this one needs to lay asleep for about 6-8 yrs and then I bet it gets a seriously good score. Dont fret..........this is a good wine that one can tell is extremely balanced and concentrated. It needs time to hit its stride.
Sophisticated smoked cherry truffle bouquet with a practically endless tail of fresh, wok fried, and roasted currant, cherry, and sweet peach pit, all made magical by just the faintest hint of charred green pepper. Seductive and thrilling.
This is rocking at the moment, and is the best Napa Cabernet I have had in a while and is a fantastic bargain at $50. Consumed over two nights, this wine was consistent both nights with fantastic complexity excellent balance. It needs at least 1-2 hours of decanting to really open up, but once it has the aromas and flavors singing harmoniously with cherries, black currant, star anise, coffee, violet, vanilla, and little cedar (everything I desire in a Cabernet). Great mouthful with fine tannins that are well balanced by the fruit and acidity.
Terrific, classic Napa cab. Beautiful nose of blackberry, black currants, cedar, vanilla and some earth. Full bodied on the palate with with plenty of fine, sweet and well integrated tannins. Superb, long finish. Perfect with grilled ribeye steaks on Christmas day.
From Double Magnum. Decanted three hours and drinking gorgeously! Spiced perfume. Dark, sweet fruit with beautifully integrated acidity and wood. Concentrated and interesting flavors. A hint of candy and smoke.
Very nice wine - but still young. Good on the nose. Decanted for about 5 hours before drinking and couold still tell that it needs to age a bit more (just my preference). Wonderful flavors on the palate and very smooth on the finish. This wine should get much better with time. Glad I have 6 more bottles to test down the road. Anticipate the score will rise with time.
Popped and poured. Very nice nose of sour cherry, tobacco, cranberry and dirt. On the palate, cranberry, sour cherry, tobacco, blackberry, spicy oak,. Dry finish with soft tannins. This wine cries for food. Great mouthfeel, lots of structure, decent upside. Acceptable value.
Night 2 - Nothing much has changed since last night, still has that long bone dry finish. This is a long term ager, glad I have a few. Drink again in 3-4 years. 92 for now, definitely has room to move up.