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Vinegar - 4/15/2011 1:53:04 PM   
gbm

 

Posts: 2220
Joined: 3/12/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		So, you pop a bottle of a new wine - or an old wine - just something you are relatively unfamiliar with. Bottle is full. Lovely color, orange rim. Nose is dusty, but developing something like cedar notes - or maybe old leather. You taste...is that a touch of vinegar?

When this happens - as it did today - I never know the answer to that question. Is it spoiled or is it the way it should taste. The TNs are not very helpful on this one.

Bottom line - would you drink it?

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RE: Vinegar - 4/15/2011 2:02:06 PM   
ChrisinCowiche

 

Posts: 7845
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Cowiche, WA
Status: offline 		The question really is, do YOU want to drink it?

I had a very similar experience with one of my PtP wines. Bottle one, I was drinking alone (without food) and I didn't enjoy it after about 1/2 a glass, so I dumped it all. Bottle two, I let the wine decant an extra hour or so, and had it with a meal, didn't find the vinegary notes nearly as offensive. That bottle lasted to day two and was actually quite nice by then.

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RE: Vinegar - 4/15/2011 2:07:02 PM   
gbm

 

Posts: 2220
Joined: 3/12/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		Holy parallel experience Batman!

This is actually the first of two bottles. I opened it a drank about a half a glass before posting. The rest is sitting on the counter, waiting for dinner to be ready. If it's no good with/after dinner it goes down the drain...or maybe on my salad with a little olive oil.

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RE: Vinegar - 4/15/2011 2:07:48 PM   
BobMilton

 

Posts: 2877
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: Newbury Park, CA
Status: offline 		Depends. The one case I encountered, the wine did not have hints of vinegar - it was vinegar. Smelled like salad dressing, tasted the same. And it was rather young (5 years from vintage). Can only presume the wrong kind of bacteria got in (the cork was fine, as was the color) and did their thing.

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RE: Vinegar - 4/15/2011 2:14:59 PM   
SteveG

 

Posts: 788
Joined: 5/21/2008
From: Central Ohio
Status: offline 		I have to agree that the notes (& there are quite a few of them) suggest if anything a somewhat low-acid wine, certainly not vinegary.

That considered, if the question is safety, I strongly doubt that a hint of vinegar is of any significance.  I personally rather like tart wines, and must admit that sometimes I have faced wines showing something beyond simply high acids (such as the unsulfured wines of winemakers like Frank Cornelissen
http://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?Table=Notes&iUserOverride=0&szSearch=Frank+Cornelissen+Etna  ) and decided that I was enjoying them, much as balsamic vinegar comes across as a food whereas cider vinegar is strictly a condiment.

So I think, don't drink it if you don't like it, but I wouldn't flush away a bottle I was enjoying just because Somebody could describe it as atypical or flawed.

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RE: Vinegar - 4/16/2011 8:10:31 AM   
Khamen

 

Posts: 5543
Joined: 3/31/2009
From: near Stonehenge, UK
Status: offline 		Typically and technically if it's full-on acetic acid type vinegar then what you have is a properly oxidsed wine. A sweeter balsamic can be stunning in certain wines, but this is a different thing entirely. In Rioja particularly you look for some strong acidity, but this should make your mouth water, not screw your face up like lemon juice.

Dollars to deutchmarks you got a bad 'un

K

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RE: Vinegar - 4/16/2011 8:18:26 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 7118
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		The experts say it's a problem with volatile acidity, although as with Khamen I have found that oxidisation tastes like vinegar to me.
A chemist will no doubt pop up and tell us what volatile acidity is.
This list of faults is handy for recognising problems:
http://www.aromadictionary.com/winefaults.pdf
L.

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RE: Vinegar - 4/16/2011 8:27:44 AM   
Khamen

 

Posts: 5543
Joined: 3/31/2009
From: near Stonehenge, UK
Status: offline 		Acetic acid always has been and always will be an oxidised wine

K

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RE: Vinegar - 4/16/2011 8:48:32 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 7118
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		http://www.thewinedoctor.com/advisory/tastefaulty.shtml

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RE: Vinegar - 4/16/2011 8:51:13 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 7118
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_fault

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RE: Vinegar - 4/16/2011 9:13:18 AM   
musedir

 

Posts: 23493
Joined: 2/25/2010
From: At 2534ft in Asheville near Royal Pines
Status: offline 		OK... before I wash the inside of my sink drain with that old Bord from last night's last puppy thingy, I will try it again later this afternoon, which will then make it 24 hours after opening... but if then it still smells like an old wet barn floor and tastes more like medicene than weak vinegar...

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RE: Vinegar - 4/18/2011 9:00:51 AM   
gbm

 

Posts: 2220
Joined: 3/12/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		Give it an extra day.

So, I left my Rioja in the fridge on Saturday (went to dinner - ordered a glass of Sancerre - am 100% sure they gave me the Viognier, but it went nicely with my salmon, so I didn't make a stink; also the Sancerre was $3 cheaper than the Viognier) and had it Sunday evening with burgers.  It was much less offensive.  In fact, it was pretty enjoyable.  The vinegar and metal were gone.  There was some red and black fruit, though that was muted by the pencil shavings, cedar, and dusty (but still kickin') tannins.


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