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Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 8:18:13 AM   
ccotton8

 

Posts: 504
Joined: 3/23/2012
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline 		Lately I have noticed that I'm becoming obsessed with buying wines from a certain vineyard and not being too prejudice on who's making the wine. This seems to be more of a North American thing where we also obsess about who manages the vines even if there are two vineyards are right next to each other that share the same soil and sun exposure.

So I'm obsessed with wines that come from the Celilo Vineyard in the Columbia Gorge. I've only had whites from the vineyard, not sure they grow any red varietals but so far everyone I've had has been outstanding and every wine consistently has the same level of minerality that I love in whites. Corliss/Tranche owns the vineyard now and I'm glad they are still selling the fruit to other producers which makes tasting each vintage fun when you can find the wine. So far I've found Tranche, Savage Grace, and Ross Andrew. I'm sure there are more but i just don't have the funds to buy all and try all in Texas.

The other vineyard that I never say no to is Shake Ridge. I'm not as obsessed as Shake Ridge just because there are a lot of producers out there with good distribution so i don't have to hunt for it...as much.

Does anyone else have a vineyard they obsess over? Or am I the weird one here?



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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 8:27:06 AM   
barolo300

 

Posts: 652
Joined: 1/11/2016
From: London, England
Status: offline 		When it comes to being obsessed with vineyards, funnily for me it tends to be monopole vineyards that grab my attention - erdener pralat, monte bello, coulee de serrant, Rayas, Romanee-Conti, Clos de Tart etc. I guess mostly it is because they have a sort of mythic reputation. I haven't been able to or afforded to drink most of them!

Sometimes I think, how cool, this producer gets to completely create a style using the grapes from this one terroir. Then I also think, shame I can't compare with other producers to get a real idea of the terroir...

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 8:29:53 AM   
Robert Pavlovich

 

Posts: 1955
Joined: 2/10/2012
From: West Los Angeles
Status: offline 		It's an entire village for me, Chambolle Musigny. In cool to moderate vintages only. There are some vineyards within that I look for, like Bonne Mares (Morey side is certainly acceptable) and the vineyards surrounding it, Les Amoureuses, even a couple "lower" priced Musigny for a rainy day. There are a couple rare ones that are so tough to find like Derrière la Grange, and Groseilles by Digioia-Royer.

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 8:59:26 AM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3220
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline 		There are a few reds from Celilo - Syncline has a pinot noir, and Savage Grace a merlot. You can probably also find whites in distribution from Andrew Will and Ashan












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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 10:40:58 AM   
S1

 

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Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Robert Pavlovich

It's an entire village for me, Chambolle Musigny. In cool to moderate vintages only. There are some vineyards within that I look for, like Bonne Mares (Morey side is certainly acceptable) and the vineyards surrounding it, Les Amoureuses, even a couple "lower" priced Musigny for a rainy day. There are a couple rare ones that are so tough to find like Derrière la Grange, and Groseilles by Digioia-Royer.

yes
and Clos de la Roche
and V-R Malconsorts

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 11:41:05 AM   
ChrisinCowiche

 

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From: Cowiche, WA
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quote:

Does anyone else have a vineyard they obsess over? Or am I the weird one here?

I think we all do this.


And I think we are all weird.

Dowsett makes an excellent Gewurztraminer from Celilo, though I haven't seen or drank it recently. https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=930371

Not sure what reds are grown there other than those listed already in this thread.

My favorite vineyard(s) vacillates from variety to variety, and sometimes vintage to vintage. Consistent favorites are Red Willow, Boushey, Stone Tree, Champoux, any of a half dozen or so in The Rocks of M-F, quite a few on Red Mountain. A new up and coming favorite in my neighborhood is called Goat Rocks. All of mine are in Washington State simply because I don't have enough experience anywhere else. One exception might be Shea Vineyard in Willamette, but I need to seek it out more for PN.

Great Topic, cotton!

< Message edited by ChrisinSunnyside -- 5/25/2017 11:42:49 AM >

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 11:49:51 AM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3601
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		My Top 5 would be Rayas, La Mouline (if I had to choose one of the LaLas), Monte Bello, Martha's Vineyard, and probably Macdonald. I love Bordeaux, but most properties are so large that I don't consider them as vineyards. Technically, they are. I kind of consider them as mini-appellations.

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 12:23:35 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		Yes, we all are weird.

Yes, I prefer certain vineyards for certain varieties. To-Kalon and some high altitude sites (Yates on Mt. Veeder, Reverie on Diamond Mtn, Pritchard Hill in the Vaca Mtns.) in California are some of my favorites. Chapelle-Chambertin, Chambolle-Musigny, Charmes-Chambertin, and Clos de la Roche in Cotê de Nuits are the majority of my Burgundy holdings. Graacher Himmelreich easily dominates the Riesling portion of my cellar, of which Mosel rules with the exception of Schäfer-Fröhlich in Nahe and Keller in Rheinhessen.

Yes, I enjoy wines from several Monopole vineyards like Henri Gouges' Clos des Porrets and Max Ferd Richter's Veldenzer Elisenberg.

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Post #: 8
RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 2:33:01 PM   
Old Doug

 

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From: Atlanta, Georgia, US
Status: offline 		Dennis, speaking of the Côte de Nuits - I love looking at a map of it, so long and narrow, a limestone ridge with a bunch of grapes growing on it.

A little farther south, on one edge of the Côte de Beaune, is Les Perrières. I've always really liked this one - not stratospheric prices and some nice minerally Chardonnays.

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 2:50:19 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		Doug - there sure are some values still to be had in Burgundy in the lesser heralded appellations. Marsannay is one we often mention in the under-rated / under-priced category. While we'll never quit buying Comte de Vogüé, Hudelot Noëllat offers a Chambolle-Musigny for under $50 on release that's damn nice too. Can't argue with buying 5 bottles for the price of 2. On the subject of Mt. Veeder, I really enjoy Lokoya and Progeny, but it's hard to swallow their pricing when I can get JEC's Veeder for a fraction of the cost AND it's more to my liking.

If a gun was put to my head and I was forced to choose only one bottle of each variety I drink, I could live with:

Graacher Himmelreich (from JJ Prüm)
Yates on Mt. Veeder (from Jean Edwards Cellars)
Clos du Bourg (from Huet)
Chapelle-Chambertin (from Ponsot)



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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 3:37:12 PM   
Yossarian

 

Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/8/2010
From: London
Status: offline 		Decanter magazine (UK made, but I think is availabel widely) each month have a section on famous bottles and famous vineyards. They have a one pager on famous plots of land and it is quite an interesting article every month - they usually have US plots on there.

As above - Burgundy is the ultimate expression of this concept/idea/gift/madness/


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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 3:39:12 PM   
Yossarian

 

Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/8/2010
From: London
Status: offline 		Adding to the list - after I was infected by the Burgundy disease (and it is a disease and/or madness) I find Marsannay vineyards are providing very transparent views of nuances vintage on vintage.

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Post #: 12
RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 6:48:49 PM   
S1

 

Posts: 14826
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Doug

Dennis, speaking of the Côte de Nuits - I love looking at a map of it, so long and narrow, a limestone ridge with a bunch of grapes growing on it.

A little farther south, on one edge of the Côte de Beaune, is Les Perrières. I've always really liked this one - not stratospheric prices and some nice minerally Chardonnays.

Roulot Meursault Perrières may be my favorite white wine in the world but I can no longer afford it.
the Latour-Giraud is pretty good.

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 7:11:26 PM   
BornToRhone

 

Posts: 3131
Joined: 2/14/2012
From: The Big D, Texas
Status: offline 		I am liking the California Thierot and Heintz Vineyards chardonnays from multiple folks.

I have quite a few Beckstoffer Dr. Crane and To Kalon wines which I need to pop open at some point.

Le Mesnil seems to work very well for me.

In the Rocks (sorry, small AVA not single vineyard) for when I am in a funky mood!

Hermann J. Weimer Magdalena Vineyard Reisling








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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/25/2017 7:36:32 PM   
River Rat

 

Posts: 1339
Joined: 4/29/2010
From: Forestville, CA
Status: offline 		Las Madres in Carneros produces some of the best Syrah in the State.

Las Piedras, Dr Crane, To Kalon, Missouri Hopper, Hayne in Napa Valley

Charles Heintz, previously mentioned.

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Post #: 15
RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/26/2017 5:00:32 AM   
Old Doug

 

Posts: 8279
Joined: 5/12/2011
From: Atlanta, Georgia, US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

Roulot Meursault Perrières may be my favorite white wine in the world but I can no longer afford it.
the Latour-Giraud is pretty good.



Scott, Meursault was what made us really notice it - when we were in Beaune we got a smattering of 'local' wines, and wow...

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/26/2017 8:57:31 AM   
ChrisinCowiche

 

Posts: 7845
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From: Cowiche, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: River Rat

Las Madres in Carneros produces some of the best Syrah in the State.

Las Piedras, Dr Crane, To Kalon, Missouri Hopper, Hayne in Napa Valley

Charles Heintz, previously mentioned.

Brian, do you have some producer recommendations for the Las Madres Syrah?

Thanks

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/26/2017 9:44:51 AM   
Robert Pavlovich

 

Posts: 1955
Joined: 2/10/2012
From: West Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Robert Pavlovich

It's an entire village for me, Chambolle Musigny. In cool to moderate vintages only. There are some vineyards within that I look for, like Bonne Mares (Morey side is certainly acceptable) and the vineyards surrounding it, Les Amoureuses, even a couple "lower" priced Musigny for a rainy day. There are a couple rare ones that are so tough to find like Derrière la Grange, and Groseilles by Digioia-Royer.

yes
and Clos de la Roche
and V-R Malconsorts


Burgundy Bros.!

Clos de la Roche was the first vineyard in Burgundy that captured my attention. Can recall liking the fact that it's slightly under the radar for a GC. It's been expanded twice so very little of it is the original vineyard, 3/4 owned by Ponsot, who's not a part of that wine from 15' onwards. Sad story. Anyhow, in trying to find out who owns the other hectare of the original CdlR vineyard I asked Jeremy Seysses and he wasn't sure but he mentioned he's been perfectly fine with the CdlR expansions, but not as much with other vineyards.

Haven't really had much Malconsorts but it's another that's interests me greatly, as with Reignots and Suchots to a degree.


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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/26/2017 9:46:49 AM   
Robert Pavlovich

 

Posts: 1955
Joined: 2/10/2012
From: West Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Doug

quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

Roulot Meursault Perrières may be my favorite white wine in the world but I can no longer afford it.
the Latour-Giraud is pretty good.



Scott, Meursault was what made us really notice it - when we were in Beaune we got a smattering of 'local' wines, and wow...



Oh yeah, the whites!

Remember waxing poetic with OD years ago about Meursault, and while I still love Meursault I've been venturing more in to Puligny of late. Batard Montrachet and 1er Pucelles, and I feel like En Caillerets is an inevitability.

So let's all put together a Burgundy tasting next year.

< Message edited by Robert Pavlovich -- 5/26/2017 9:47:28 AM >

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/26/2017 11:47:31 AM   
ccotton8

 

Posts: 504
Joined: 3/23/2012
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline 		My burgundy ah ha moment vineyard was Bonne Mares, but everytime i get the urge to hunt for it; I start crying because its way beyond my comfort level for spending.

I'm a fan of Las Madres Syrah from Myriad, there's a post on WB where they did a huge line up tasting of Las Madres wines that was pretty interesting. Now that I think about it, if I see a Cali Syrah from Larner, White Hawk or Las Madres I have a real hard time saying no. From Washington it would SJR, Olsen, Ciel du Chuval.

I'll probably say Columbia Gorge (Celilo) are my whites Achilles heel, plus its super affordable so I can buy a lot. I'd like to visit the AVA and explore the other vineyards but i stick with Celilo just because it's great fruit and it's accessible to me.

I guess it really comes down to varietal strength in vineyards. I would have to say that Hyde would be my favorite that has a wide variety of strong varietals.

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/26/2017 2:38:06 PM   
mye

 

Posts: 2317
Joined: 3/26/2009
From: Bellevue, WA
Status: offline 		Favorite vineyards old world:
- clos de la Roche
- romanee st vivant
- wehlener sonneheur (sp)

New world:
- To Kalon

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Post #: 21
RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/26/2017 6:02:53 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		Here in California, I've discovered kind of by accident that many of my favorite wines come from a single hillside, just south of To Kalon: the upper parcel at Vine Hill Ranch, which is used to make the Vecina Bond wine. St. Eden, my favorite of the Bond lineup, comes from just above the To Kalon vineyard.

So I'm going to second the Mye vote, although I'll broaden it by a few hundred yards to include the St. Eden and Vine Hill Ranch vineyards. In fact I would say that of the wines tasted on this trip, the VHR Cabernet was the one huge discovery for me. Reasonably priced, yet in every sense at the level of the big players like Bond, Promontory or Harlan. The Vineyard that Thackery's Orion comes from too. Something special about it.

I agree about Mye's Romanee St Vivant and Clos de la Roche vineyard suggestions too. Both are dead on for me.

Then maybe La Crau in Chateauneuf du Pape, where the best Grenache in the world is grown (Rayas, Pegau, several others). Bonneau has an amazing vineyard too.

Up in Alsace, the Trimbach Clos St Hune vineyard.

Then the site where Cheval Blanc is grown, in Bordeaux.

I guess I could make a longer list. What makes them so distinct seems to be a combination of the soil, the climate, and the particular clones of particular grapes that are planted there. For example, when visiting Cerbaiona I learned that my favorite Brunello wines come from a specific ridge that has a layer beneath the surface of rocks particularly rich in calcium. The sites in California that work best for Cabernet seem to have that too, plus unusual levels of iron plus a particular microclimate...



< Message edited by KPB -- 5/26/2017 6:05:21 PM >

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/26/2017 6:17:57 PM   
jmcmchi

 

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Joined: 8/6/2013
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quote:

What makes them so distinct seems to be a combination of the soil, the climate, and the particular clones of particular grapes that are planted there


+1

I have experienced as much difference in the finished wine between different clones from a single vineyard as from different vineyards

But for individual vineyards...Les Amoureuses, parts of Yarra Yering, Dalwhinnie's SW Rocks, Sonnenuhr, Celilo, specific parts of some Barossa/MLV vineyards

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/26/2017 7:59:56 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		One thing I find striking right now is how similar and even monolithic many of the wines from the high end of Napa ratings turn out to be. I've been able to visit Vine Hill Ranch, Bond, Promontory, Ovid, Verite. (although Verite isn't truly a Napa Winery) and have tasted tons of others: Harlan, Colvin, Futo, Hundred Acre, Bryant Family, Dominus, Opus One, Kapcsandy, and if I counted past vintages too as opposed to just recent ones, I could add maybe twenty to that list just in Napa. Yet while many are super expensive, few really work for me. So many of the wines turn out to be ponderous and dull, concentrated to the point of seeming thick and syrupy, overly oaked, too high in alcohol. A few have strange palates, like the Colgin and Kapcsandy wines (to my taste, obviously. Your reaction may differ!)

So while I actually really love Bond St Eden, Vecina, and Pluribus, and now I'll add VHR, and perhaps Verite Le Desir and La Joie, many of the others leave me puzzled. I bought a bottle of the 2014 Ovid Cab Franc wine for my daughter's birthday, and I know she will love it, but I don't know that I would rush to buy it in every vintage. They do love oak at Ovid... would that dominate in other vintages? I've certainly had great Montebello from Ridge... but I've also had heavy, hot bottles very much in the monster cab model.

So I think vineyard certainly matters, a lot. But "there is many a slip twixt the vine and the lip."

So in this are a cluster of wineries located within a stones throw of one-another, yet only a few are wines I would buy without hesitation.

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/26/2017 10:15:15 PM   
jmcmchi

 

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Joined: 8/6/2013
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quote:

So I think vineyard certainly matters, a lot. But "there is many a slip twixt the vine and the lip."


true; the proof of that is in the ups and downs of vineyards from the 1855 classification as differences in vineyard management and winemaking made huge differences in quality for several in the late 1900's. It's rarely a matter of just buying the vineyard no matter what the weather/other factors


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Post #: 25
RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/26/2017 10:50:19 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		Very good example. I would say that the 82 Bordeaux reviews by Parker established a model (and a way to greatly increase revenue), and the winemakers of the region followed the lead, as happened in Chateauneuf du Pape soon after, then Spain. Here in California, it happened too.

Today, the great majority of high ranked wines turn out to be the same wine, basically, even if vinified by different people. But it makes sense: take ten rich families for whom money is no object. They all want To Kalon grapes, so split the grapes from pretty evenly among them. Next, each needs to hire a winemaker who got A+ grades in the toughest winemaking classes at UC Davis. Each will need a lab, temperature controlled tanks, optical sorter, lots of new 300L Limousin oak barrels from Tarasaud... then promise a $50k bonus if WA awards the wine 98pts or more. And guess what? Given all this, mostly, they make identical wines. Exactly the wine Robert Parker seems to favor.

The wines I prefer are, at least, a bit distinctive. On the other hand, WA seeks out that identical wine, and distinctive means "not a carbon copy of the Colgin Herb Lamb"... so my favorites often garner lower scores than the syrupy hot over-oaked ones. A puzzle.

< Message edited by KPB -- 5/26/2017 10:51:05 PM >

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RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/27/2017 12:29:44 AM   
PinotPhile

 

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Joined: 3/16/2014
From: Southern CA
Status: offline 		Bien Nacido, Santa Barbara County, at times. Since the more elite vineyards within CA, i.e., Napa area, are above chosen pay grade.

Central Coast Cheers!

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Post #: 27
RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/27/2017 6:20:13 AM   
SteveG

 

Posts: 788
Joined: 5/21/2008
From: Central Ohio
Status: offline 		Not much hard thinking for me, Tondonia, 5 wines, delicious on release and last forever, all amongst my favorites.

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Post #: 28
RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/27/2017 7:03:45 AM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
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From: Philly / South Joizey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

Chapelle-Chambertin, Chambolle-Musigny, Charmes-Chambertin, and Clos de la Roche in Cotê de Nuits are the majority of my Burgundy holdings.



I forgot another "C" from Burgundy: Corton. Specifically, Corton le Rognet from Bertrand Ambroise.

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Post #: 29
RE: Favorite Vineyard - 5/27/2017 5:06:09 PM   
jmcmchi

 

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quote:

Since the more elite vineyards within CA, i.e., Napa area, are above chosen pay grade.


When I tried various of these in the late 90's and early 00's the QPR didn't make sense to me; it seems to make even less now.

Around Santa Barbara now, that is different

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