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Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/22/2022 4:31:34 PM

WineGuyCO

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I guess I am perplexed at all of the high scores on CT for 2017, 2018 & 2019 Napa Cabs scoring 95, 96 & 97 points. I get that there are new Producers making an early drinking Cab but is this a new thing? I guess we can’t assume most of these folks are new wine drinkers or can we? I read one comment that a 2015 Cab was too old for his palate? Really? Maybe Caymus did figure it out that there were many buyers who would love Mega Purple?

In any event, I guess we Old School wine people are now in the minority? I can’t imagine even opening a 2014 Bordeaux much less a 2018 Napa Cab and giving it 96 points. I’m just trying to understand these folks who love these ripe. Fruit forward, fruit bomb Cabs that they love so much. Flame suit on.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/22/2022 5:26:23 PM

KPB

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My theory is that a lot of CT users read the “official” score and TN from Suckling or Parker or Galloni, perhaps reword it or perhaps just echo it, and arrive at their own version of the same score. They would rationalize that they are new to scoring and learning from an expert, or maybe not even be conscious of this way of kind of shadowing a professional. Bottom line, they splurged when they bought the wine on the 97pt Vinous score, now feel a need to retroactively justify that decision, so they tasted it under a form of duress (while their partner, skeptical, makes derisive comments and frets over the price), and ultimately post a TN that matches the advertising.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/22/2022 6:09:23 PM

DrBad

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I've been holding off on '18 and '19 for the most part and using the "down" vintage '17s as cellar defenders, but there are some '17-'18s that have been drinking well and apparently '19s are drinking better early than the '18s, from some sources.

For the '17s I've had they are mostly down a few points from '15-'16 but pretty drinkable, no reason to hold on to these too long IMO. My "theory" on '17 is since it was a down year grape quality wise that they were made to drink early.

I've had a few excellent '18s:
Maybach Materium from a 375 was gorgeous. I'm not opening my 750 or 1.5 any time soon but no reason not to drink a 375 now.
'18 Rivers-Marie Herb Lamb was fantastic.
I Pobega'd an '18 Chappallet Signature the day it arrived and it was pretty darn tasty.

< Message edited by DrBad -- 9/22/2022 6:10:10 PM >

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/22/2022 6:28:29 PM

Chip Merlot

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I think the theories in the OP are all pretty spot-on, even if they're offered with exasperation. A lot of people, perhaps especially young people who aren't sure if the planet will be inhabitable in 30 years, aren't interested in waiting years to drink a wine. So winemakers are responding. Mike Smith, who's racked up a couple of shelves full of scores in the high 90s and some 100s with Myriad, Carter Cellars and others, has stated clearly that he doesn't make wines to age. He makes them for drinking, not for showcasing or playing the guessing game as to when they'll be ready to uncork. I used to like that style more than I do now but I can still see the appeal.

At the end of the day it's Coke vs Pepsi ... no wrong opinions just different taste buds.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/22/2022 7:14:03 PM

WineGuyCO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

My theory is that a lot of CT users read the “official” score and TN from Suckling or Parker or Galloni, perhaps reword it or perhaps just echo it, and arrive at their own version of the same score. They would rationalize that they are new to scoring and learning from an expert, or maybe not even be conscious of this way of kind of shadowing a professional. Bottom line, they splurged when they bought the wine on the 97pt Vinous score, now feel a need to retroactively justify that decision, so they tasted it under a form of duress (while their partner, skeptical, makes derisive comments and frets over the price), and ultimately post a TN that matches the advertising.

THIS is exactly my thinking and so spot on Ken. I’m open to other opinions but this is what I feared. The same folks who think spending $200 for a wine guarantees an amazing experience and turning their nose up at peons who think spending less on a wine is just pedestrian. I think I just dislike the more money for wine is better mantra. We all know this isn’t always true.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/22/2022 7:18:35 PM

WineGuyCO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DrBad

I've been holding off on '18 and '19 for the most part and using the "down" vintage '17s as cellar defenders, but there are some '17-'18s that have been drinking well and apparently '19s are drinking better early than the '18s, from some sources.

For the '17s I've had they are mostly down a few points from '15-'16 but pretty drinkable, no reason to hold on to these too long IMO. My "theory" on '17 is since it was a down year grape quality wise that they were made to drink early.

I've had a few excellent '18s:
Maybach Materium from a 375 was gorgeous. I'm not opening my 750 or 1.5 any time soon but no reason not to drink a 375 now.
'18 Rivers-Marie Herb Lamb was fantastic.
I Pobega'd an '18 Chappallet Signature the day it arrived and it was pretty darn tasty.

A five year old Cab to me is still really young. I have never opened a five year old wine because I know mostly it won’t be something I enjoy. I pretty much know it will be a fruit forward style I don’t care for. Like I said, it seems this is a style many like now.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/22/2022 7:25:42 PM

BenG

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I've read that early drinking has been a thing for some time now (perhaps 15 years) and that some producers are making their wines more approachable in their youth with tricks such as microoxygenation. I'm hoping this doesn't detract from the ability of the wine to improve with age.

Personally, I do open one bottle in each batch early (the last one was a 2019, infanticide!) to check that they were safe to cellar and hadn't been cooked. I give them quite a few hours to breathe and it often gives me a sneak preview of what is to come. It can still be very enjoyable at such a young age and I have scored them quite highly.

Not sure if Napa cabs go through cocoon phases but I've noticed with some CT riesling reviews someone will say "past it - no primary fruit left", and then 5 to 10 years later a whole host of other reviewers will be marvelling at the tertiary flavors coming from the same wine.

< Message edited by BenG -- 9/22/2022 7:30:52 PM >

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/22/2022 8:34:52 PM

Eduardo787

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Napa is fun. Bordeaux is intellectual. Napa is Hollywood, while Bordeaux is an independent film. I have a lot of friends that drink 1-2 bottles of wine a week will chose a Caymus cab over a $150 pomerol any day of the week. Napa has a special character that lures us becasue of its flashiness. Young Napa cabs are incredibly delicious and sometimes I prefer them young (3-5 years of age) than aged ones with 10+ years because the lose their essence. Almost all Bordeaux that I buy and I like are not the very old school or classic wines. For me the ones that I enjoy the most are the ones that have become more new world and not stay old fashioned ( so to speak). The only problem for me regarding Napa is its price, I mean, I am not going to continue buying "acceptable" Napa cabs for $75 when I can find the same quality in a Chilean or Argentinian wine for $20-$30. Even Bdx in the $30-$40 range you can find amazing wines that in a blind tasting will leave many speachless.

Anyways......I have lot´s of Napa cabs left from 07,09, 13, 14, 16, 18, 19 and I enjoy them a lot, but I am not buying anymore Napa. Damn those Trotanoy are still in my head, I will decide in a flip coin toss tomorrow

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/22/2022 9:15:23 PM

peeks13

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About half way down this thread I had a thought...what IF a producer treated their fruit in two different ways. One would be old school and one new school. Same base grapes. See how it turns out. Ideally keeping politics and scores and locals "opinions" out of it.

Maybe this is already happening. Can anyone speak to a producer that's doing this..."oh yeah, we have wine 1 which we love but try wine 2 which we also love" - and they're the same grapes?

(in reply to WineGuyCO)

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 5:37:33 AM

daviladc

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This thread made me go look to see what Napa Cabs I've opened recently.

In the last 100 bottles I e opened, only 3 we're Napa Cabs. A 2013 Peacock that is finally getting past the super ripe phase. A 2014 Miner Oracle that is finally starting to really sing.

The worst was a young 2016 Boich Missouri Hopper that was waaaay too much of everything and needed another 3-4 years before it can even be entertained. Time is the only thing that can tame the amount of black fruit and menthol. There was a thread on CT earlier about a 10 year window for Napa Cabs, but this Boich will bust through that.

PS: 3 out of my last 100 bottles were Napa Cabs is mind blowing to me! Granted, summertime in Myrtle Beach means cases of rosé and crisp whites, but even amoungst just the reds, it's amazing how my consumption has changed.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 5:54:10 AM

Paul852

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In 3156 bottles consumed on CT, my total of Napa Cabs is 0 (there are 2 bottles of one Napa "Bordeaux blend", which were pretty poor for the price).

Frankly, nothing I read tempts me to try Napa Cabs when there are so many great wines around from all over the world.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 6:05:53 AM

DrBad

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Oh there are plenty who do this. Seavey has their "entry level" Caravina Cabernet which is more fruit forward and made to drink earlier while their estate Cab has more tannins and structure and can age for 20+ years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: peeks13

About half way down this thread I had a thought...what IF a producer treated their fruit in two different ways. One would be old school and one new school. Same base grapes. See how it turns out. Ideally keeping politics and scores and locals "opinions" out of it.

Maybe this is already happening. Can anyone speak to a producer that's doing this..."oh yeah, we have wine 1 which we love but try wine 2 which we also love" - and they're the same grapes?

(in reply to peeks13)

Post #: 12

RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 6:17:43 AM

DrBad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyCO

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrBad

I've been holding off on '18 and '19 for the most part and using the "down" vintage '17s as cellar defenders, but there are some '17-'18s that have been drinking well and apparently '19s are drinking better early than the '18s, from some sources.

For the '17s I've had they are mostly down a few points from '15-'16 but pretty drinkable, no reason to hold on to these too long IMO. My "theory" on '17 is since it was a down year grape quality wise that they were made to drink early.

I've had a few excellent '18s:
Maybach Materium from a 375 was gorgeous. I'm not opening my 750 or 1.5 any time soon but no reason not to drink a 375 now.
'18 Rivers-Marie Herb Lamb was fantastic.
I Pobega'd an '18 Chappallet Signature the day it arrived and it was pretty darn tasty.

A five year old Cab to me is still really young. I have never opened a five year old wine because I know mostly it won’t be something I enjoy. I pretty much know it will be a fruit forward style I don’t care for. Like I said, it seems this is a style many like now.

We all have our own tastes and preferences. I enjoy both younger, fruit forward styles of wine, and more complex wines with structure that need some age. For me, the different styles have their own place.

The notion put forth here, and many other places, that other people who give high scores to wines that one doesn't personally like the style of are doing it because they are ignorant and just echoing a reviewers score is, frankly, a bit rude and snobby.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 7:19:46 AM

DrBad

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Here's my take on this.

The purpose of the critic's review of a wine, for me, is to say if they believe the wine is well made, provide some input on the style of the wine, and some guidance on the drinking window. The critic has to review and write for many different tastes, not just their own. I can use their review to decide if I want to purchase that wine based on the quality, price, and style.

My CT reviews for wines are primarily for myself. If I don't like the style or the quality I don't give it a high score. If I like the style and the quality, I give it a higher score. CT is primarily a cellar tracking, consumption tracking, note taking and review tracking service for me, which I pay for.

There are plenty of critic's reviews and user's reviews of wines that get high scores but are not of a style I like. Like people who don't like fruit forward wines, I just don't like wines that to me seem overly tart. The critic isn't wrong and the people who like that style of wine aren't wrong or ignorant. We all have different tastes and different purposes for drinking wine.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 9:26:21 AM

jmcmchi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: peeks13

About half way down this thread I had a thought...what IF a producer treated their fruit in two different ways. One would be old school and one new school. Same base grapes. See how it turns out. Ideally keeping politics and scores and locals "opinions" out of it.

Maybe this is already happening. Can anyone speak to a producer that's doing this..."oh yeah, we have wine 1 which we love but try wine 2 which we also love" - and they're the same grapes?

Several local (Woodinville) winemakers are doing that with various grapes. Not necessarily as old school vs new school, but distinctly different treatments. Syrah seems to be a favourite for this

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 9:35:26 AM

BobMilton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DrBad

Here's my take on this.

The purpose of the critic's review of a wine, for me, is to say if they believe the wine is well made, provide some input on the style of the wine, and some guidance on the drinking window. The critic has to review and write for many different tastes, not just their own. I can use their review to decide if I want to purchase that wine based on the quality, price, and style.

My CT reviews for wines are primarily for myself. If I don't like the style or the quality I don't give it a high score. If I like the style and the quality, I give it a higher score. CT is primarily a cellar tracking, consumption tracking, note taking and review tracking service for me, which I pay for.

There are plenty of critic's reviews and user's reviews of wines that get high scores but are not of a style I like. Like people who don't like fruit forward wines, I just don't like wines that to me seem overly tart. The critic isn't wrong and the people who like that style of wine aren't wrong or ignorant. We all have different tastes and different purposes for drinking wine.

I agree. My scores are to remind me at years end which wines I really enjoyed, and which I wouldn't buy again. Your list may be very different, and that is fine.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 10:42:37 AM

annerk

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When drinking and scoring a younger wine, I"m always looking at both where it is now, and where it will be with the appropriate amount of age, which my score reflects. I also add the points for each component of the rating scale, because to me, this is more important than the final score itself. I don't just choose a number out of thin air, I consider each aspect of the wine to justify that data point.

That said, I know a lot of people who drink and very much enjoy younger wines, and I do believe that many winemakers are beginning to cater to the Gen X-Y-Z/Millennial crowd who seem to overall prefer wines that need less age to hit their peak.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 2:52:18 PM

WineGuyCO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DrBad

Here's my take on this.

The purpose of the critic's review of a wine, for me, is to say if they believe the wine is well made, provide some input on the style of the wine, and some guidance on the drinking window. The critic has to review and write for many different tastes, not just their own. I can use their review to decide if I want to purchase that wine based on the quality, price, and style.

My CT reviews for wines are primarily for myself. If I don't like the style or the quality I don't give it a high score. If I like the style and the quality, I give it a higher score. CT is primarily a cellar tracking, consumption tracking, note taking and review tracking service for me, which I pay for.

There are plenty of critic's reviews and user's reviews of wines that get high scores but are not of a style I like. Like people who don't like fruit forward wines, I just don't like wines that to me seem overly tart. The critic isn't wrong and the people who like that style of wine aren't wrong or ignorant. We all have different tastes and different purposes for drinking wine.

I gave the 2012 Caymus 40th 63 points I think because I hated the wine and the style. CTers told me that I shouldn’t have done that and I should have scored the wine according to the quality. Ok….68 points it is.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 3:02:29 PM

Blue Shorts

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Not all Napa Cabs are made to drink young. If you've ever had a Philip Togni cabernet, you would know that those wines are meant to age. 5-10 years is very young for those wines.

But an aged Togni Cab is pure heaven.

< Message edited by Blue Shorts -- 9/23/2022 3:38:08 PM >

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 3:21:17 PM

hadukla

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I'm pretty new here but I am not so sure. Having only become active this year, I feel like I also see young Bordeaux's being rated higher on average than older/more "ready" ones. Mostly just my anecdotal observations but I decided to look at the average ratings of 3 on each side, in buckets of "not ready" i.e. before the CT window, those halfway in to their window, on the latter half, and finally those past the end of the window.

While this is certainly not an exhaustive study with only 6 samples (paging CT analytics team!) and you may suggest there are better samples to take, I only took some of more recognizable names and of course, Bordeaux has much more data given the longer history. On top of all that, Bordeaux seems to have had a banner half decade from 2015-2020 (save for 17) which dominate the "not ready" bucket. I don't know Napa's vintages well enough to compare the relative vintage strength.

Draw from the below what you will, I'd be willing to take a look at a couple other Napa cabs to see if the trend is different but any more than that, call Eric. I however, see so far that Bordeaux has the same issue. Darn us kids and our impatience!!*

(Vintages omitted due to lack of rating/CT drinking window)

Leoville Poyferre
"Not ready" 94.5 (2015-2020)
Halfway in 92.4 (82-83, 85, 05-06, 08-14)
Latter half 92.3 (66, 89-90, 95-96, 00, 02-04, 07)
Past window 89.1 (53, 59, 61-62, 67, 70-72, 75-76, 78-80, 86, 88, 92-94, 97-99, 01)

Cheval Blanc
"Not ready" 95.4 (98, 09-19)
Halfway in 94.3 (47, 49, 71, 81-83, 85-86, 89, 00, 05-06, 08)
Latter half 93.5 (64, 66, 74, 90, 01, 03-04, 07)
Past window 91.9 (53, 55, 57, 59, 61-62, 67-70, 72-73, 75-76, 78-80, 87-88, 92-97, 99, 02)

Chateau Lafite Rothschild
"Not ready" 95.4 (10-12, 14-18)
Halfway in 94.7 (53, 59, 76, 82, 85, 89, 96, 00, 03-06, 08-09, 13)
Latter half 94.0 (86, 88, 90, 94-95, 98-99, 01-02, 07)
Past window 90.2 (45, 49-50, 55, 57, 60-75, 78-81, 83-84, 87, 91-93, 97)

Opus One
"Not ready" 93.3 (15-18)
Halfway in 94.4 (12-14)
Latter half 93.3 (05-11)
Past window 91.7 (79-04)

Harlan Estate
"Not ready" 97.1 (16-19)
Halfway in 96.2 (06-10, 12-15)
Latter half 95.6 (91, 94-98, 01-05, 11)
Past window 94.1 (90, 92-93, 99-00)

Mayacamas
"Not ready" 92.7 (77, 85, 03, 12, 16-18)
Halfway in 90.7 (78-79, 82, 84, 86, 89, 91, 93-02, 05-06, 09-11, 13-15)
Latter half 91.2 (83, 88, 90, 92, 04, 07-08)
Past window 89.8 (76, 80-81, 87)

*fwiw, I have 5 ratings for napa cabs with 3 90s, 2 93s and a 97, all from recent vintages with the 97 for a 2015. I have many, many more bottles in my storage waiting for better days so while I am happy to take the heat for millennials, I would say I am not in line with the OP's hypothesis!

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 3:33:54 PM

annerk

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I completely agree with you on Togni. It needs a long time before it hits it's prime. Ridge Montebello (although not Napa) is another.

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RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 3:46:28 PM

hadukla

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The numbers are on Togni's side:

"Not ready" 92.6 (03-04, 08, 10-11, 13, 15-16, 18)
Halfway in 92.7 (91, 95-98, 00, 05-07, 09, 12, 14, 17)
Latter half 93.2 (83, 94, 99, 01)
Past window 91.3 (85-90, 92-93)

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Post #: 22

RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 4:04:16 PM

jmcmchi

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An observation on the Bordeaux “pastready” scores. Many of those refer to pretty crappy vintages (always excluding ‘49 and ‘61), so if anything, the scores are higher than I would expect

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Post #: 23

RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 4:09:21 PM

Blue Shorts

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quote:

he numbers are on Togni's side:

Thanks for the analysis.

The only issue with the way you are making the comparisons is that you are comparing different vintages and assuming that the difference in the scores is solely due to age....ignoring that some vintages are better than others. With some wines, the style even changes over the years.

I think that a better method would be to take individual wine/vintages and look at how the scores vary over time as that individual wine ages.. Of course, that would take a lot of work......not sure it's worth it.

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Post #: 24

RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 4:19:05 PM

hadukla

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I agree!

That's one of the things I want to see the CT analytics team do, because my burning question is whether CT user ratings increase after some major critic also increases their scores. But that kind of easy access to the data is something Eric's team would have. If there was a way I could export data en masse, I would love to do it but right now I copy/paste pages into excel like its 1997

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Post #: 25

RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 5:17:52 PM

DrBad

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Joined: 5/4/2018
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyCO

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrBad

Here's my take on this.

The purpose of the critic's review of a wine, for me, is to say if they believe the wine is well made, provide some input on the style of the wine, and some guidance on the drinking window. The critic has to review and write for many different tastes, not just their own. I can use their review to decide if I want to purchase that wine based on the quality, price, and style.

My CT reviews for wines are primarily for myself. If I don't like the style or the quality I don't give it a high score. If I like the style and the quality, I give it a higher score. CT is primarily a cellar tracking, consumption tracking, note taking and review tracking service for me, which I pay for.

There are plenty of critic's reviews and user's reviews of wines that get high scores but are not of a style I like. Like people who don't like fruit forward wines, I just don't like wines that to me seem overly tart. The critic isn't wrong and the people who like that style of wine aren't wrong or ignorant. We all have different tastes and different purposes for drinking wine.

I gave the 2012 Caymus 40th 63 points I think because I hated the wine and the style. CTers told me that I shouldn’t have done that and I should have scored the wine according to the quality. Ok….68 points it is.

If you feel it’s a 63 then score it a 63.

Contrary to what people say, there are no rules. This is a paid for service and I use it how I want regardless of how others feel. If I were told I had to score my wines differently I would cancel my subscription and use another app or program it myself. This ain’t rocket science ;-)

(in reply to WineGuyCO)

Post #: 26

RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 5:35:00 PM

khmark7

Posts: 11428
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline

Expensive wine MUST be scored highly. Right?? Right???? Even more so if some yappy wine critic believes it is so.....

Conversely you see plenty of people review quality wines from places like NY, Michigan or any other state and score the wines unusually low because simply, they are from XYZ state and priced very affordably.

Currently enjoying a quality affordable Syrah from Carlisle. Guilt free living.

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(in reply to DrBad)

Post #: 27

RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 6:54:20 PM

cellardweller

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline

I think the OP's comments are very relevant but I believe they are a reflection of the fundamental principles on which CT relies to produce its scores.

I joined CT just after it was started in 2006 and I had already been collecting wine for over twenty years by that time. Like many wine collectors in the pre-internet years I relied on publications such as the Wine Advocate (I never really liked ot trusted the Wine Spectator) which was a huge improvement over the existing publications at the time. I did not always agree with Parker but at least I knew how his palate had been calibrated based on powerful, high alcohol wines. I would trust him on Bordeaux, Napa cabs and Rhone wines, not nearly as much for the rest.

By the time CT came along, I had developed my own taste profile and no longer needed some pundit to tell me what to drink. On the other hand, I still welcomed some feedback from people that drank the same wines I has accumulaterd. Then CT came along.

CT was very different from other sources. Eric's brillant idea was to develop an application tapping into the the wisdom of the crowds, a theory that assumes large crowds are collectively smarter than individual experts. CT aggregates scores from people with very wide range of wine tasting experience. Some had more expereince than me, some had less but overall I could get a picture of a bottle of a wine I had in my cellar.

Here are some of the ways I interpret the scores.

1. The distribution of scores on the same wine can be quite broad, but as the number of comments increase the score tends to stabilize towards a number that was more and more likely to represent a "true" score, if that even means anything. I personally do not put much weight on scores with less than a few dozen comments.

2. Scores virtually always come down over time, especially for cult wines. In early posts , especially on benchmark wines, scores are significantly higher than the average score five or ten years later. This is very obvious with Napa wines and Bordeaux where early posters often parrot the pundits and will give obscenely high scores of 99 or even 100 to wines that would drop to the low 90s within a few years. In some cases, the drop is quite dramatic, reflecting the "King has no Clothes" syndrome. Highly touted wines often fail to deliver over the long run. I nearly always resell any wines with extremely scores as I can always find somebody willing to pay a premium for such trophy wines.

3. As a corollary to #2, wines where scores stay stable or even or even increase over time are extremely rare. These are wines that I often look for. A wine that has maintained a 95+ score over a decade or more (assuming enough samples) is unequivocally a great wine.

4. Obscure wines often have random scores. This is the downside of the wisdom of the crowds theory. You need enough scores for the average to have any meaning. Invariably, CT scores over 96 or 97 are based on tiny samples.

5. I have a lot wines that are over 25 years old. If I don't find any scores within the last 5 years, I don't pay much attention to the scores. If the latest scores are all bad, then I know my wine is probably over the hill. (Not always as most users may not have temperature controlled cellars).

A few suggestions if Eric sees this post:

It would be great to have a way to a way to provide averages from prior years and see the evolution over time. You can recreate historical scores manually, but it would be great to have an automated option that could give scores for every 5 years following release.

It would also be great if CT could generate a confidence interval in the averages based on the number of scores. It is very annoying to find scores based on an average of 1.

(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 28

RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 8:49:22 PM

hadukla

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/19/2022
Status: offline

You bring up great points and suggestions! Some of the same stuff I'd like to see. Though some notes

"It would be great to have a way to a way to provide averages from prior years and see the evolution over time."
I think this is what the drinking window is intended to do as Eric has said it is partly based on the evolution of scores over time

"You can recreate historical scores manually, but it would be great to have an automated option that could give scores for every 5 years following release."
YES! Or even a custom period but 5 years makes the most sense as a middle ground

"It would also be great if CT could generate a confidence interval in the averages based on the number of scores. It is very annoying to find scores based on an average of 1."
YES! Just an added data point visible on the page where scores are accompanied with some formula based on number of ratings with weight added towards the heaviest CT users as to avoid some new player from influencing a new wine

(in reply to cellardweller)

Post #: 29

RE: Young Napa Cabs and High Scores? - 9/23/2022 9:02:14 PM

WineGuyCO

Posts: 3802
Joined: 9/5/2017
From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Expensive wine MUST be scored highly. Right?? Right???? Even more so if some yappy wine critic believes it is so.....

Conversely you see plenty of people review quality wines from places like NY, Michigan or any other state and score the wines unusually low because simply, they are from XYZ state and priced very affordably.

Currently enjoying a quality affordable Syrah from Carlisle. Guilt free living.

This is so great!! Let’s be honest here. People spending $200 plus on a Napa Cab know what scores Professionals have given. They aren’t tasting the wines blind. They are opening wines with their wives, friends & family.

Somebody who paid $500 for their 2013 Opus One knows the wine is rated 96 or 97 points. Guess what score they are going to leave the next day after dinner? It’s not going to be 90 or 91 points. Would they give the same score in a blind tasting among other wines? Who knows. Wife before dinner looks at the Opus One bottle and tells her hubby how great he is opening this. LOL. Very few spending a lot for a bottle of wine aren’t going to admit they got burned and the wine wasn’t worth the price they paid.

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La felicità, come un vino pregiato, dev’essere assaporata sorso a sorso.

(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 30