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Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern?


I liked the wine, but simply bought too many.
  19% (17)
My enabler was a convincing sales person.
  8% (7)
I was hoping the wines would evolve, but they never really did.
  8% (7)
I was offered insider access to a rarity and couldn’t resist.
  8% (7)
The wine got such great reviews. I no longer trust that reviewer.
  10% (9)
My palate evolved in ways I wouldn’t have expected.
  21% (19)
Global warming, or cooling, or some other cosmic explanation.
  4% (4)
I liked being an expert on [some-region] so I wanted 2 or 3 of each.
  5% (5)
I bought them for investment, but somehow price never soared.
  2% (2)
We aren’t drinking quite as much these days, so it piled up.
  11% (10)


Total Votes : 87
(last vote on : 9/11/2018 2:41:26 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 6:33:24 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4662
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		I’m down to 800 bottles, having sold some great Oregon PN wines that I simply wasn’t drinking (I actually kept 30 bottles, so it isn’t like I lashed out against Oregon or anything).

So what was I thinking when I bought them? More broadly, what are the most common purchase mistakes? Pick as many as you like.

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology
Post #: 1
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 9:05:57 AM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11426
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		Combination of factors. Palate change, reviewers are often not too my liking, drinking less, evolve?, self control. I blame everything else except myself

_____________________________

"a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 2
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 9:34:47 AM   
dbg

 

Posts: 569
Joined: 10/25/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Wine not evolving as expected was the biggest one, but that was a learning experience and I haven’t made that error in any big way in the past 20 years.

Like it but bought too much was number 2, often facilitated by mailing list exclusivities. I’m now off the lists, but still have to resist buying too much from retailers. Especially for wines I really love that are also a good deal.

_____________________________

David G

(in reply to khmark7)
Post #: 3
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 10:44:56 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4662
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		For me I think the biggest systematic issue has been believing that some wine would evolve to become sublime and not realizing that it was in a modern style that just doesn't evolve much at all. The hallmark of modern wines seems to be that many hold "like they were on release" for a while, then collapse.

In Europe I've often been served these amazing older bottles, and I've sometimes managed to cellar a wine until it reached that point. But way more often, I just end up with N bottles of whatever the wine was on release, more or less unchanged until I finish the lot or get bored with them.

I find that remarkably few of the old-school wines (like premier-cru Bordeaux that was hard as nails on release, but sensational 15 years out) are still made that way. Kind of knocks the reason for having a big cellar out -- you want wines in your cellar because of price and availability, but the whole rationale that as they age, they blossom starts to become very much a gamble (a pretty bad bet, actually).

< Message edited by KPB -- 2/18/2018 10:46:01 AM >

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to dbg)
Post #: 4
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 10:54:52 AM   
skifree

 

Posts: 3414
Joined: 3/14/2010
From: SE King County, Washington
Status: offline 		I think one not on the list for me is the "vertical" idea - buy some again because you want to keep the vertical going.

_____________________________

So much wine, so little time

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 5
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 11:45:35 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4662
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		I thought of that but it limited me to 10 options. So I figured maybe it falls into the same group as "expert on some region and so I need 3 of each".

Originally I was also planning to list "I'm on the mailing list, but to stay on it, I need to place an order every year. So I buy to ensure that I can also get an allocation in a home-run vintage."


_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to skifree)
Post #: 6
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 12:16:13 PM   
Blue Shorts

 

Posts: 2780
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz
Status: offline 		For me, it is due primarily to an evolving palate.

When I first started drinking wine, it was cabernet sauvignon, and only cabernet sauvignon (mostly BV). From there I moved on to Zinfandels (mostly Ridge). Then my wine world starting opening up and I tried the Pinots, Chateauneufs, Syrahs, Chablis etc. I discovered that I liked all of it, but at different times of the year, with different foods.

Now, I have some of most of the popular varieties. Even within a single varietal, there is so much difference. Take Pinot Noir. The difference between growing regions and producers results in wines that taste as different from each other as one can only imagine.

That's one of the things that I love about wine. It is constantly evolving, just as my tastes are evolving. It's fun to explore.

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 7
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 12:49:07 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4662
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		I totally get that. At the same time, I would say that my palate actually still keeps changing, and in some ways this brings me back to my old favorites, at least now and then.

So for me palate evolution can explain why I have too many of a particular wine, but on the positive side, if it hangs in there long enough, I sometimes get a desire to revisit those old flames...

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to Blue Shorts)
Post #: 8
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 1:42:32 PM   
Blue Shorts

 

Posts: 2780
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz
Status: offline
quote:

but on the positive side, if it hangs in there long enough, I sometimes get a desire to revisit those old flames...


Completely agree.

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 9
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 2:10:10 PM   
mtpisgah

 

Posts: 3570
Joined: 6/7/2012
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		I have bought too many of a wine and by the time and am nearing the end of a case, I have been bored with it. My palate has also changed so some bottles I bought to age end up not to my liking.

I have only sold a few bottles over the years but I really need to get a list together and post on WB CC.

_____________________________

Paul

I read books to pass the time until the next bottle of wine.

(in reply to Blue Shorts)
Post #: 10
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 2:29:18 PM   
S1

 

Posts: 14826
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline 		I only regret Clos St Jean, but I didn't buy TOO many.

_____________________________

Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 11
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 2:44:33 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		There should be an option for "Oh my GAWD - I can't stop myself from buying all these 'deals' coming to my inbox!". Luckily I've mostly gotten past that.

My 3 picks were....

I was hoping the wines would evolve, but they never really did.

Sometimes, even if you're familiar with a wine, the vintage you bought doesn't improve the way the vintage you initially fell in love with did.

I was offered insider access to a rarity and couldn’t resist.

Big problem for me initially, especially having several friends ITB. However, they did save me from the mistake of falling for critic's high scores, so it's actually still something I consider a win. Most of these wines are still great to share at offlines because they're of good quality, and I don't dislike them. I just wouldn't purchase them again.

My palate evolved in ways I wouldn’t have expected.

Two words: Burgundy epiphany. Specifically, 1993 Ponsot Clos de la Roche at Bern's in Tampa. Packed up around 4 cases of Cab that were already falling out of favor and sold them to fund some Ponsot, Comte de Vogue, Faiveley, and Bertrand Ambroise.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to S1)
Post #: 12
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/18/2018 7:31:30 PM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11426
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

For me I think the biggest systematic issue has been believing that some wine would evolve to become sublime and not realizing that it was in a modern style that just doesn't evolve much at all. The hallmark of modern wines seems to be that many hold "like they were on release" for a while, then collapse.

In Europe I've often been served these amazing older bottles, and I've sometimes managed to cellar a wine until it reached that point. But way more often, I just end up with N bottles of whatever the wine was on release, more or less unchanged until I finish the lot or get bored with them.

I find that remarkably few of the old-school wines (like premier-cru Bordeaux that was hard as nails on release, but sensational 15 years out) are still made that way. Kind of knocks the reason for having a big cellar out -- you want wines in your cellar because of price and availability, but the whole rationale that as they age, they blossom starts to become very much a gamble (a pretty bad bet, actually).


Sums up what i think about modern wines, especially coming out of my favorite wine region.

_____________________________

"a rogue Provence rouge of unknown provenance." author grafstrb

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 13
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/19/2018 11:11:12 AM   
GalvezGuy

 

Posts: 5864
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Galveston, TX
Status: offline 		Ye olde palate shift

_____________________________

Burgundy makes you think of silly things; Bordeaux makes you talk about them; Champagne makes you do them.

(in reply to khmark7)
Post #: 14
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/19/2018 11:31:57 AM   
musedir

 

Posts: 23495
Joined: 2/25/2010
From: At 2534ft in Asheville near Royal Pines
Status: offline 		Love that notion of buying three in order to become an expert...

_____________________________

"Fan the sinnking flame of hilarity with the wing of friendship; and pass the rosy wine." Charles Dickens.

(in reply to GalvezGuy)
Post #: 15
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/19/2018 1:40:20 PM   
PinotPhile

 

Posts: 3728
Joined: 3/16/2014
From: Southern CA
Status: offline 		Not voting, at least yet, due to multiple factors. In rank order based upon my initial impression:

We aren’t drinking quite as much these days, but are more selective.
My palate evolved as my education grew and preference of more reds/less whites surfaced.
I developed and implemented a cellar strategy.
I enjoy becoming an expert in key countries/regions/appellations, consistent with my cellar strategy.
I am becoming more exposed to various tasting events, which has a way of changing my interest and mailing lists.
My definition of frugal is changing, but I'm not going overboard. Frugality is part of who I am

Cheers!

PP

(in reply to musedir)
Post #: 16
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/19/2018 3:08:21 PM   
jmcmchi

 

Posts: 3222
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: online 		Two;
not having bought enough of bottles essentially bought on spec/gut feel (so that I get told off for buying only x bottles)

having bought too many of some EP "bargains" based on barrel ratings

(in reply to PinotPhile)
Post #: 17
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/19/2018 7:08:38 PM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4662
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: musedir

Love that notion of buying three in order to become an expert...


Well, a pro would want 4. But a mere expert...

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to musedir)
Post #: 18
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/19/2018 7:19:30 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB


quote:

ORIGINAL: musedir

Love that notion of buying three in order to become an expert...


Well, a pro would want 4. But a mere expert...


So, what are you if you buy a case? (and don't say a lush)

Funny that I sometimes buy wine I like but in a vintage I'm unsure of in quantities of 4 or 7 - making the extra bottle the test to see how it's evolving. Sometimes the 4th or 7th is a 375ml.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 19
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/20/2018 6:11:11 AM   
dbg

 

Posts: 569
Joined: 10/25/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB
I find that remarkably few of the old-school wines (like premier-cru Bordeaux that was hard as nails on release, but sensational 15 years out) are still made that way. Kind of knocks the reason for having a big cellar out -- you want wines in your cellar because of price and availability, but the whole rationale that as they age, they blossom starts to become very much a gamble (a pretty bad bet, actually).


Yes a number of agers have gone over to one or more modern methods over time, so it requires some attention and faith to keep a cellar full of ageable wines. But some of the cries of doom have been premature. In Bordeaux, where most of my interest lies, 1982 was supposed to be too ripe to age. Not true. And almost everyone in Bordeaux was supposed to be making wine that was too modern/Parkerized to age after the mid-90s. But my 2000 Bordeaux are showing every sign of developing into the wines I hoped they would. I have high confidence that my 2005s will get there as well, and have continued to place significant bets up to 2016. Of course there are some mistakes in my cellar but that’s the risk of trying to predict the future. But with enough care and attention, the gamble starts to shift from a bad bet to a pretty good one. At least in Bordeaux.

In California my experience was the opposite. Early in my involvement with wine, I was expecting them to turn into old Bordeaux after 20 years, but found that the majority of the wines in my cellar did not. There were exceptions, wines that developed real complexity with age (e.g. Ridge Monte Bello, Montelena Estate, Laurel Glen), but even those wines didn’t ring quite the same chimes as an aged Leoville or Lynch. Though I still enjoy drinking Napa Cabernet, the realization that there was no need to lay in stocks for aging led to a cellar purge. Thus my #1 answer: wines not evolving as expected.

In Chateuneuf, another area I love, I am more inclined to agree that many favorites have been making wines built for no more than 10-15 years, if that. But there are still a few worth collaring (Beaucastel, Vieux Telegraphe, Charvin come immediately to mind).

_____________________________

David G

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 20
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/20/2018 6:22:48 AM   
dbg

 

Posts: 569
Joined: 10/25/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

I totally get that. At the same time, I would say that my palate actually still keeps changing, and in some ways this brings me back to my old favorites, at least now and then.

So for me palate evolution can explain why I have too many of a particular wine, but on the positive side, if it hangs in there long enough, I sometimes get a desire to revisit those old flames...


Completely agree, and why I didn’t pick palate evolution. I’ve lost interest in things for a year or more, thinking my palate had changed, only to find a rekindled interest. Very glad I didn’t give up on my German Rieslings and sell them off when my palate went into a prolonged dumb phase for them. The lack of auction market enthusiasm for them is what saved them, and I’m glad it did.

Over time, if my taste and olfactory senses start to wane, I may find I need some of those ripe modernistas to punch through the fog of age. If my beloved Bordeaux all start tasting like dead old dirt, I may have to trade them in for the likes of Caymus or Mollydooker.

_____________________________

David G

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 21
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/20/2018 10:01:04 AM   
BenNoir

 

Posts: 921
Joined: 7/9/2014
From: Snoqualmie River Valley, WA
Status: offline 		Garagiste. I bought 532 bottles, mostly cheap, in 2014/15.

But, in the ranch tradition - "You drink what you buy" - only 31 Garagiste bottles remain unconsumed.

What now awaits me in the cellar is mostly west coast wines, and I look forward to each bottle.



_____________________________

"Water is for the Garden"
"Wine is for the Man"

(in reply to dbg)
Post #: 22
RE: Cellaring mistakes: Is there a pattern? - 2/20/2018 12:10:19 PM   
grafstrb

 

Posts: 8837
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: LAla land
Status: offline 		I was hoping the wines would evolve, but they never really did.
My palate evolved in ways I wouldn’t have expected.
We aren’t drinking quite as much these days, so it piled up.
^^^^^^^^
Those are the three big ones for me.

The "not drinking as much" factor hasn't caught up to us yet, but math says it will; many bottles will be given the opportunity to last longer than one might reasonably expect them to.

Palate change is something we all experience; so it boils down to how much were you buying before your palate changed? I just remarked to my wife the other day that our cellar is *finally* at the point where I feel we have consumed all of the "cellaring mistakes" of which I am aware. Specifically, we are finally through all our big Paso bombs. That having been said, there are some American Cabernets in our cellar that may ultimately prove to be cellaring mistakes, but I don't particularly like them at their present age, so the only good option I have is to wait longer and hope for the best.

As for "expected to evolve but didn't" --- I don't beat myself up too much about these ones b/c at least they didn't get worse! Also, sometimes I view these bottles not as cellaring mistakes, but rather as "uncorking mistakes" (i.e.: I didn't cellar them long enough).

_____________________________

Terroir is not a flavor.

(in reply to BenNoir)
Post #: 23
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