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Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/5/2017 7:07:40 PM   
ericindc

 

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So, whats everyone's fav, and general thoughts?

My favs's are:

Olga Raffault - fav is the Picasses - seems best after 15 yrs
Baudry - fantastic young, never had an older bottle
Couly-Dutheil - older bottlings are great.



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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/5/2017 7:26:48 PM   
Eddie

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericindc


So, whats everyone's fav, and general thoughts?

My favs's are:

Olga Raffault - fav is the Picasses - seems best after 15 yrs
Baudry - fantastic young, never had an older bottle
Couly-Dutheil - older bottlings are great.



I agree! To the extent that I don't have much to add...except, that someone should expound upon Saumur-Champigny. Oh, and older Baudry may be your new Fav when you have one....

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/5/2017 7:41:25 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

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Status: offline 		Hold on a minute.... are you saying there's more than just Chenin Blanc in the Loire valley?

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/5/2017 8:28:39 PM   
fingers

 

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Status: offline 		I should really sell off 20 or 30 bottles from current holdings and buy 40 or 50 bottles of Olga and Baudry

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/5/2017 10:23:48 PM   
PinotPhile

 

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Status: offline 		That's it. Beaudry going on my watch list. Fascinating grape, Cab Franc. Never had Beaudry, or any but the most basic Loire Francs.


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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/5/2017 11:45:17 PM   
bretrooks

 

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Status: offline 		While I've had a couple of unpleasantly green ones, I've liked far more bottles than I've not liked. We went through a little bit of a Saumur kick a couple of years ago, generally sticking to mid-priced bottles from warmer vintages, but I haven't searched any out lately.

Favorites have been a couple of Baudrys, a Joguet, and some well-priced Hureau Tuffe Saumurs.

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 12:04:33 AM   
forceberry

 

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Status: offline 		Baudry is definitely among the great ones, agreed. The top-tier bottlings of Couly-Dutheil are also really impressive, especially after 20-25 years or more.


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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 5:16:31 AM   
pclin

 

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Status: offline 		Clos Rougeard, too bad I got into the party late.

Also love Yannick Amirault and Domaine de la Butte.

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 7:21:33 AM   
Chip Merlot

 

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Status: offline 		I haven't had a ton of these, but my impression from what I've had (including a few bottles of the Ruffault) is that you gotta love acid to like these wines.

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 7:55:14 AM   
Eddie

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chip Merlot

I haven't had a ton of these, but my impression from what I've had (including a few bottles of the Ruffault) is that you gotta love acid to like these wines.


I see a thread diversion coming up.......



Maybe a Ken Kesey Memorial Electric Chinon offline at Musedir's house? (or in a field of wildflowers.....) I'll bring the Arlo Guthrie records.

< Message edited by Eddie -- 10/6/2017 9:10:15 AM >

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 9:05:12 AM   
hankj

 

Posts: 4672
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		According to the owner of a geekishly dialed in Chinon wine shop, there are over 100 well-worthy organic estate wines in Chinon. Given that, it doesn't surprise me that I buy Chinon almost never by selecting favorite labels but rather by picking up a bottle that comes from an importer with good taste, trying it, then going back for a half-case or more if I like it.

That said, outside of the prominent labels already mentioned, Domaine Pallus makes excellent wines - bio, estate vinyard, winemaker from Ribera (which translates really nicely to terroir driven Chinon. Pink label, try one if you see it.

< Message edited by hankj -- 10/6/2017 10:27:54 AM >

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 9:07:24 AM   
Eddie

 

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Status: offline 		I have a 2012 Domaine de Pallus Chinon Les Pensées de Pallus hiding somewhere in my racks. Think it's ready yet?

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 10:23:08 AM   
hankj

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eddie

I have a 2012 Domaine de Pallus Chinon Les Pensées de Pallus hiding somewhere in my racks. Think it's ready yet?


I'd think so - the '11 drank great 2-3 years ago, had stuffing to hang in there too.

I haven't seen the '12 in the Seattle market - '11 still on the shelf until very recently. If you drink the '12 would be interested in your impression .. '11 driven by loam and mineral, crunchy red fruit, violets, an elegant wine from a less dense vintage. The '12 should be more masculine ...

< Message edited by hankj -- 10/6/2017 10:30:59 AM >

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 2:13:48 PM   
S1

 

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Status: offline 		And for a really special occasion (like a chilly Tuesday evening date night), Rougeard.

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 2:23:38 PM   
Yossarian

 

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Status: offline 		Loire Cab Franc - especially Chinon - is stupidly good value. In London you can easily pick up bottles from the 70s and 80s in restaurants for little money, providing you know where to look.

I purchased last year some 93 and 96 Chinon from a well known UK-wide distributer for £14 (about $20).

Clos Rougeard, as S1 said above, is insanely good. That is the DRC of the Loire. If you ever get the chance to taste some (especially the Le Bourg) then do so, irrespective of the price. It is the equivalent of a top top Burg or Bdx at a fraction of the price.

I think Loire Cab Franc is pretty much a wine geeks kind of wine though - there is a certain maturity to the palate needed I think to appreciate what you get with them



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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 2:25:14 PM   
Yossarian

 

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Status: offline 		Plus.....I'd just like to add.....it was a thread of this forum maybe 6-7 years ago about Cab Franc that got me into these wines. You are just all enablers......

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 2:33:37 PM   
KPB

 

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Status: offline 		My favorites have all been mentioned above.

What I would find harder would be to pin down the terroir characteristics associated with growing Cabernet Franc under different conditions. In the Loire you often find a meatier style of CF, a bit heavier, with a distinctive aroma and flavor that can seem metallic (copper) or yeasty, but more often than not, you get that slightly metallic thing. It works well for that grape, and I seek this out. I think these tend to be vines growing in slightly richer soil, and with access to a fair amount of subsoil moisture.

In warmer drier conditions and sandier soils, you see a more perfumed and lighter rendition of CF that can be so fragrant that it will sometimes almost smell like the potpourri blends my grandmother used to keep in bathrooms. Not my favorite style. Common in Napa or Sonoma.

Cheval Blanc is a blend but CF dominated, in clay. I haven’t had it enough, or from good enough bottles, to understand the mythic stature of that particular wine.

And then I have had blends where the CF was so muted next to the other grapes that honestly, CF didn’t belong on the label. In Israel I saw this a fair amount.

I guess this wide range of variation isn’t unusual for grape varietals, but I do find that the Loire version seems to aim for a style I like much more.

< Message edited by KPB -- 10/6/2017 2:34:25 PM >

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 2:38:51 PM   
KPB

 

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Status: offline 		Oh, this reminds me to add Plouzeau Chinon to the list, especially the “Ante Phyloxera” bottling, which is from a single vine, but massive, filling a whole courtyard, and so old that nobody knows when it was planted. Probably 400 years old...

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 2:40:00 PM   
Yossarian

 

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Status: offline 		Ken - I think also the warmer climates are not kind to Cab Franc - although of course that is my personal taste. I quite like the lean, coppery (stealing your phrase) tang to the Loire wines. I've had Cab Franc from Argentina, and they have been decent but more generic.

The Loire valley is pretty much "north of the wall" when it comes to growing wine, and it comes with that mouth puckering tang that I love. Hot places? Meh. Anyone can grow ripe booze. Give me wines that cut through the duck fat.

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 3:05:42 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yossarian

Le Bourg





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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 3:08:08 PM   
Eddie

 

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Status: offline 		While we're on this subject, I'll have to note that the best Rose I've ever tasted, by a wide, wide, WIDE margin, was called Bourgueil Avis de Vin Fort Clairet, by Catherine and Pierre Breton. It's on the dark end of the Rose spectrum, almost a light red, and it's absolutely delicious. It isn't made in every vintage, and even when it is made, production is very small, so it's almost a "holy grail" find.....but if you ever see it anywhere, buy every bottle. Seriously.

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 3:10:53 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eddie

While we're on this subject, I'll have to note that the best Rose I've ever tasted, by a wide, wide, WIDE margin, was called Bourgueil Avis de Vin Fort Clairet, by Catherine and Pierre Breton. It's on the dark end of the Rose spectrum, almost a light red, and it's absolutely delicious. It isn't made in every vintage, and even when it is made, production is very small, so it's almost a "holy grail" find.....but if you ever see it anywhere, buy every bottle. Seriously.


Resistance is Futile.

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/6/2017 11:28:31 PM   
pclin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB


Cheval Blanc is a blend but CF dominated, in clay. I haven’t had it enough, or from good enough bottles, to understand the mythic stature of that particular wine.




Get a bottle of '85 CB.


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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/7/2017 2:52:07 PM   
khmark7

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bretrooks

While I've had a couple of unpleasantly green ones, I've liked far more bottles than I've not liked. We went through a little bit of a Saumur kick a couple of years ago, generally sticking to mid-priced bottles from warmer vintages, but I haven't searched any out lately.

Favorites have been a couple of Baudrys, a Joguet, and some well-priced Hureau Tuffe Saumurs.


Love the unpleasant green ones!! Honestly, they often have great character in the leaner vintages and so much individuality.

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/7/2017 2:53:58 PM   
khmark7

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eddie

While we're on this subject, I'll have to note that the best Rose I've ever tasted, by a wide, wide, WIDE margin, was called Bourgueil Avis de Vin Fort Clairet, by Catherine and Pierre Breton. It's on the dark end of the Rose spectrum, almost a light red, and it's absolutely delicious. It isn't made in every vintage, and even when it is made, production is very small, so it's almost a "holy grail" find.....but if you ever see it anywhere, buy every bottle. Seriously.


Cab Franc Rose is stellar stuff. Most of mine is purchased from the NY Finger Lakes or from Michigan where they make loads of the stuff. Rarely see any from the Loire.

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/7/2017 2:57:16 PM   
khmark7

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yossarian

Plus.....I'd just like to add.....it was a thread of this forum maybe 6-7 years ago about Cab Franc that got me into these wines. You are just all enablers......


Yes, some loser called pjaines started that thread i believe. Think he died from liver failure?

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/8/2017 2:03:55 AM   
forceberry

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Love the unpleasant green ones!! Honestly, they often have great character in the leaner vintages and so much individuality.


Same here! Although some of the most impressive CFs can be phenomenal in warmer vintages, I definitely prefer those more vegetal wines from the cooler vintages. They definitely show so much individuality, whereas the great majority of the wines tend to go into pretty uniform stylistic direction with warmer vintages.

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/8/2017 4:34:01 PM   
bretrooks

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: bretrooks

While I've had a couple of unpleasantly green ones, I've liked far more bottles than I've not liked. We went through a little bit of a Saumur kick a couple of years ago, generally sticking to mid-priced bottles from warmer vintages, but I haven't searched any out lately.

Favorites have been a couple of Baudrys, a Joguet, and some well-priced Hureau Tuffe Saumurs.


Love the unpleasant green ones!! Honestly, they often have great character in the leaner vintages and so much individuality.

I'd say I'm medium-sensitive to green characteristics...I can enjoy them (or at least tolerate them) up to a point, but beyond that point, they definitely become a negative for me. The jalapeno type of green character that hot-climate cab franc sometimes gets is a definite turn-off.

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/8/2017 5:52:15 PM   
ericindc

 

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Joined: 7/6/2012
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Status: offline 		So its interesting, there are different types of green in wine. I like the sharper, jalepeno and bell/green pepper type. I only say this because I had a natural wine that was very asparagus-like last week at a tasting. It was rather horrid.

< Message edited by ericindc -- 10/8/2017 5:56:25 PM >

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RE: Lets talk Loire Cab Franc - 10/8/2017 5:55:02 PM   
CranBurgundy

 

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From: Philly / South Joizey
Status: offline 		Wine is made from grapes, and grapes are not green, therefore there should not be any green flavors in wine.

...... oh, wait a ..... ...........um..................... never mind.

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