So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ?

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So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/6/2024 3:04:28 PM

Eduardo787

Posts: 1569
Joined: 1/14/2020
From: Monterrey Mexico
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Offers are starting to fill my inbox and I really do not know how to approach 2023 after zero buys of the 22's ( because of pricing) and 21's ( because of not good vintage).

Prices are down significantly for Bdx 2023 but I have not made my mind if I want to buy and if so which wines. Ive seen Mouton and Laffite in the $500 mark but I would like to guess they are for very long cellaring or at least 15 years in the future, thing that I am not going to do.

From what I have read 2023 is not a right bank year as it was not a great year for merlot, but it seems cab sauv got better luck. The critics will jump all over with their 95+ points rating for almost all wines above $70 and it will be hard to find ( as always) a true grasp of Bdx for 2023.

The last vintage I went all in was 2019 because of the incredible deals, but 2023 I have no idea if the quality is there or if there is so much wine sitting everywhere from 2021 and 2022 that all the wine business is telling us things that might not be so true.

Is this vintage a must, an opportunity, a meh meh, a just buy some, etc ?

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Post #: 1

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/6/2024 3:37:14 PM

Wine Grove

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Joined: 11/9/2017
From: San Clemente, CA
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2019 was a good vintage to stock up on.
With the global wine glut, the murky and potentially volataile economy, inflation and high costs for everything else, coupled with recent wine buying trends, you Eduardo have the power!!
is En primeur even worth it, do you save that much money?

(in reply to Eduardo787)

Post #: 2

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/6/2024 4:06:35 PM

skifree

Posts: 3416
Joined: 3/14/2010
From: SE King County, Washington
Status: offline

Pontet-Canet for $90? If I were younger, I would buy at least 6!! From what I read, seems to be a vintage that will be good when young as well as old....

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Post #: 3

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/8/2024 4:53:44 AM

Echinosum

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
Status: offline

What I have been reading is that there are some outstanding wines, where the vignerons worked hard to address the difficulties of the conditions, and knew how to turn the materials into good wine. It doesn't sound like a vintage to buy at "entry level", but rather one that offers an opportunity to find some carefully located bargains at the upper end of the quality spectrum. We must read the assessments of individual wines carefully, and find several assessments. Some of the reviews of individual wines I have read seem to have "faint praise", as in the saying goes.

It is a large vintage, at least at the quality end, despite losses to mildew. And that will be at least part of the explanation for markedly lower prices.

I said I wasn't going to buy any 2021. But in the end there was one wine that got such extensive and good reviews it seemed to be a major bargain so I bought a case of it. Something similar happened in 2017. I have generally been charmed by the various 2017s I have bought from other parts of France, and sometimes wonder if I should go back and buy some more 2017s. I'm fed up of 14-15% wines, and none of the recent cooler vintages have been at all like the bad, cold vintages of the past. So it is possible I will locate something like that in 2023, but in general I wasn't planning to buy anything.

2022 was good value if you were buying at the lower quality end - wines there cost much the same as in 2020. It was at higher quality level that prices went up so much.

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A discriminating palate can be a curse.

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Post #: 4

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/8/2024 4:59:38 AM

Echinosum

Posts: 604
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From: Buckinghamshire, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wine Grove
En primeur even worth it, do you save that much money?

It varies. Sometimes you can still get the same wine for the much the same price 5 years later. Sometimes it has substantially increased in price and/or become unavailable.

_____________________________

A discriminating palate can be a curse.

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Post #: 5

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/8/2024 8:04:36 AM

Paul852

Posts: 2656
Joined: 6/27/2018
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline

For me if I feel like some 2023 Bordeaux in about 2033 then I have confidence that there will be plenty available to buy. I'm not obsessed about any particular wine - there are plenty of decent ones.

(in reply to Echinosum)

Post #: 6

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/8/2024 12:39:16 PM

wdcwineguys

Posts: 286
Joined: 4/16/2018
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline

I think Dunnuck sums it up well:

“To quickly summarize, 2023 is a good to very good, but not a great year for Bordeaux. It surpasses 2014, 2017, and 2021 yet is a solid step back from the incredible trio of 2018 through 2020, and most likely will be surpassed by 2022 as well. The wines are ripe yet not massive or incredibly concentrated.”

The quality is also a mixed bag and is very chateau dependent for 2023.

While some of the 2023 prices are attractive, I’m finding great deals on 18, 19, 20’s still and I’d rather put my $ there.

(in reply to Paul852)

Post #: 7

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/8/2024 5:31:14 PM

khmark7

Posts: 11428
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdcwineguys

I think Dunnuck sums it up well:

“To quickly summarize, 2023 is a good to very good, but not a great year for Bordeaux. It surpasses 2014, 2017, and 2021 yet is a solid step back from the incredible trio of 2018 through 2020, and most likely will be surpassed by 2022 as well. The wines are ripe yet not massive or incredibly concentrated.”

The quality is also a mixed bag and is very chateau dependent for 2023.

While some of the 2023 prices are attractive, I’m finding great deals on 18, 19, 20’s still and I’d rather put my $ there.

I rather adore the 2014 Bordeaux and 2017 & 2021 feel like early drinking vintages. 2019 if you can find them are excellent wines.

From what I have read I am eager to secure some 2023 Bordeaux. A little more restraint.

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Post #: 8

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/8/2024 6:37:46 PM

skifree

Posts: 3416
Joined: 3/14/2010
From: SE King County, Washington
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdcwineguys

I think Dunnuck sums it up well:

“To quickly summarize, 2023 is a good to very good, but not a great year for Bordeaux. It surpasses 2014, 2017, and 2021 yet is a solid step back from the incredible trio of 2018 through 2020, and most likely will be surpassed by 2022 as well. The wines are ripe yet not massive or incredibly concentrated.”

The quality is also a mixed bag and is very chateau dependent for 2023.

While some of the 2023 prices are attractive, I’m finding great deals on 18, 19, 20’s still and I’d rather put my $ there.

I think Jane Anson, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, and William Kelley are the voices to listen to about Bordeaux these days. Jeb, IMHO, has a new world palate.

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So much wine, so little time

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Post #: 9

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/9/2024 3:06:39 AM

Echinosum

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
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Bordeaux critics 2023 round-up (as selected by a merchant) including Kelley and Perotti-Brown, and Anson's thoughts.

A repeated theme, to use Anson's words, is

quote:

...there is a big difference between those that have succeeded, and those who have struggled...

I was going to write that the style of the vintage may well seem attractive to some, lower alcohol, combination of ripeness and freshness, etc. But that's a trap I nearly fell into. What they are actually saying is that the style of the wines that succeeded may well have those attractions, to people that prefer that.

Paul makes good points about the good availability of Bordeaux in secondary markets. But maybe in an uneven vintage like 2023 the wines are rather less substitutes for each other, and it may be the less successful ones that are more easily available.

_____________________________

A discriminating palate can be a curse.

(in reply to skifree)

Post #: 10

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/9/2024 10:02:08 AM

wdcwineguys

Posts: 286
Joined: 4/16/2018
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: skifree

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdcwineguys

I think Dunnuck sums it up well:

“To quickly summarize, 2023 is a good to very good, but not a great year for Bordeaux. It surpasses 2014, 2017, and 2021 yet is a solid step back from the incredible trio of 2018 through 2020, and most likely will be surpassed by 2022 as well. The wines are ripe yet not massive or incredibly concentrated.”

The quality is also a mixed bag and is very chateau dependent for 2023.

While some of the 2023 prices are attractive, I’m finding great deals on 18, 19, 20’s still and I’d rather put my $ there.

I think Jane Anson, Lisa Perrotti-Brown, and William Kelley are the voices to listen to about Bordeaux these days. Jeb, IMHO, has a new world palate.

And of all of the reviewers Jeb is the one who I agree with the most across the boards. Different palates.

(in reply to skifree)

Post #: 11

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/10/2024 9:41:32 AM

jeff leve

Posts: 348
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eduardo787

Offers are starting to fill my inbox and I really do not know how to approach 2023 after zero buys of the 22's ( because of pricing) and 21's ( because of not good vintage).

Prices are down significantly for Bdx 2023 but I have not made my mind if I want to buy and if so which wines. Ive seen Mouton and Laffite in the $500 mark but I would like to guess they are for very long cellaring or at least 15 years in the future, thing that I am not going to do.

From what I have read 2023 is not a right bank year as it was not a great year for merlot, but it seems cab sauv got better luck. The critics will jump all over with their 95+ points rating for almost all wines above $70 and it will be hard to find ( as always) a true grasp of Bdx for 2023. Is this vintage a must, an opportunity, a meh meh, a just buy some, etc ?

Hey Eduardo... I think you read my site, but just in case, you, or others have not looked... Also, FWIW, there are some stunning Right Bank 2023's... Not everywhere but they are there. There is less Merlot in 2023, but that's less, which is different than not great.

https://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/2024/05/2023-bordeaux-wine-guide-vintage-harvest-analysis-what-to-buy/

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www.thewinecellarinsider.com

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Post #: 12

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/10/2024 3:17:26 PM

Eduardo787

Posts: 1569
Joined: 1/14/2020
From: Monterrey Mexico
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeff leve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eduardo787

Offers are starting to fill my inbox and I really do not know how to approach 2023 after zero buys of the 22's ( because of pricing) and 21's ( because of not good vintage).

Prices are down significantly for Bdx 2023 but I have not made my mind if I want to buy and if so which wines. Ive seen Mouton and Laffite in the $500 mark but I would like to guess they are for very long cellaring or at least 15 years in the future, thing that I am not going to do.

From what I have read 2023 is not a right bank year as it was not a great year for merlot, but it seems cab sauv got better luck. The critics will jump all over with their 95+ points rating for almost all wines above $70 and it will be hard to find ( as always) a true grasp of Bdx for 2023. Is this vintage a must, an opportunity, a meh meh, a just buy some, etc ?

Hey Eduardo... I think you read my site, but just in case, you, or others have not looked... Also, FWIW, there are some stunning Right Bank 2023's... Not everywhere but they are there. There is less Merlot in 2023, but that's less, which is different than not great.

https://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/2024/05/2023-bordeaux-wine-guide-vintage-harvest-analysis-what-to-buy/

I have no idea why I forgot to look at your site !!!! Of course I have hours and hours getting lost in your site, but somehow I forgot this time to look there for info. This weekend I will definitelly plan on reading all your tasting notes and coments. Thanks Jeff !

_____________________________

I can´t be happier than drinkling wine with my friends

(in reply to jeff leve)

Post #: 13

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/11/2024 7:08:42 PM

ericindc

Posts: 2085
Joined: 7/6/2012
From: District of Columbia
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1st. Try to figure if you will be alive in 2050 when the better wines will be mature.

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Just waiting for my Grand Cru to age.

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Post #: 14

RE: So, whats the way to approach 2023 En Primeur ? - 5/23/2024 12:07:34 PM

WineGuyCO

Posts: 3805
Joined: 9/5/2017
From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
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2019 is the last Bordeaux Vintage I’m buying. All of the 2023 En Primier emails just get deleted. You young bucks should go for it though.

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La felicità, come un vino pregiato, dev’essere assaporata sorso a sorso.

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Post #: 15