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Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/3/2011 9:24:25 AM   
rbazinet

 

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Because I have enjoyed Maestro’s 101 threads so much and because I am reading “The great domains of Burgundy”, which, in my opinion, does a poor job introducing burgundy (they cut a north south map and put the north on the right side – who does that?).

Anyways, I would like to encourage somebody (or a few people) to post a similar Burg 101 post. Paul, any guys over your way that might know a thing or two about Burg (hint, hint)?

Cheers
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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/3/2011 10:25:59 AM   
wallstreet

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rbazinet

Because I have enjoyed Maestro’s 101 threads so much and because I am reading “The great domains of Burgundy”, which, in my opinion, does a poor job introducing burgundy (they cut a north south map and put the north on the right side – who does that?).

Anyways, I would like to encourage somebody (or a few people) to post a similar Burg 101 post. Paul, any guys over your way that might know a thing or two about Burg (hint, hint)?

Cheers



http://www.burgundy-wines.fr/find-out-about/the-burgundy-region/terroir/foundation,204,139.html?

My favorite explanation below.

http://www.thewinedoctor.com/regionalguides/burgundypartone.shtml

As for my personal experience

1. Burgundy can / is VERY expensive for the best bottlings
2. Due to sheer # of producers , Burgundy is more of a minefield then say, Bordeaux
3. Some of the best burgundy is an orgasmic experience that is only rivaled by an amazing old Bordeaux.
4. I refuse to learn any more about Burgundy because it will seriously dent my wallet (already has, but I have limited the level of destruction)
5. Just because it is Pinot Noir, do not ever consider it similar to American Pinot Noir.  To me, they taste totally different and the aging potential of 1er Cru or Gran Cru Burgundy is far superior to US Pinot.

Burgundy, to me, is probably the most food friendly wine (of the red variety).

Burgundy , to me, is the most terroir driven wine, even more so then Bordeaux.

If one truly wishes to dive into Burgundy, be prepared to spend more money on Burgundy than any other wine.    In my opinion, you cannot truly experience Burgundy with $30 bottles of wine. You can get a taste of the lower end of the spectrum. But you will not truly see why so many people become religious over Burgundy.

< Message edited by wallstreet -- 2/3/2011 10:34:42 AM >


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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/3/2011 11:27:43 AM   
Ganesha303

 

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quote:


If one truly wishes to dive into Burgundy, be prepared to spend more money on Burgundy than any other wine.    In my opinion, you cannot truly experience Burgundy with $30 bottles of wine. You can get a taste of the lower end of the spectrum. But you will not truly see why so many people become religious over Burgundy.


Any recommendations on something under $50/750ml that would exemplify the beauty of the region? I am very inexperienced with Burgundy, but would like to get a feel for what the fuss is about.

(in reply to wallstreet)
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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/3/2011 11:38:57 AM   
wallstreet

 

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I have these in my cellar and have been enjoyable, even though drinking window starts at 2013

http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=342437

I REALLY enjoy this one, great price performer, I think its like $40 USD

http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=344293

Sometimes you can find this on the secondary market,  I like the 96 vintage. I think its like $80 on the secondary market.

http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=65873

I enjoy these producers in general.  I do not like the 04 vintage and recommend you buy pass it.

Louis Jadot
Vincent Giradin
C. Gugat

If you want to venture in higher priced wines but are good QPR for the quality you get, then try Leroy. My favorite higher end producer.

I bought this for like $75 on the secondary.  93 is my second favorite vintage from the 90's (1990 being my favorite of course).

http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=44481

I found some great gems for under $100, but it truly was a mine field finding them, I bought a) producer first b) vintage second   c) price third.

I have to admit some of the wines I purchased, I had no experience with , and some had no tasting notes in CT. I took a crap shoot based on producer and vintage.  I had a 1976 Village wine (shared with Serge) that would have fooled anyone tasting it that it was a GRAND CRU.  It was simply amazing (even though we took it to a Chinese Restaurant).

My favorite food with Burgs is duck. But I would not hesitate to have it with veal, pork and if its a young fat one, it would hold up to a lean steak like Filet.






< Message edited by wallstreet -- 2/3/2011 11:42:33 AM >


_____________________________

"One Man Gathers, What Another Man Spills"...Robert Hunter 1968

----
Wine, Watches And Women....not necessarily in that order


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Post #: 4
RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/3/2011 12:42:16 PM   
rbazinet

 

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Thanks. This is exactly why I do not buy wine magazines.

Here is something that is not 100% clear to me. Please correct me where I go wrong. After I get this straight, I will have a few more questions.

1. The land is divided up into two main regions: 1 cote de nuits and 2 cote de beaune (lets ignore chablis and beaujoulais etc… for now)
2. These two main regions are further subdivided into areas (volnay, pommard etc …)
3. These areas are then divided into “plots” which are called vineyards
4. A grower grows grapes on the “plots”/vineyards
5. The quality of the grapes was predetermined (Grand Cru, Premier Cru, Village and Regional) etc ..
6. A producer (winemaker), who is not the grower, then buys grapes from the vineyards
7. A producer can buy grapes from several plots and thus make several wines from different places, but does not mix grapes for Grand or Premier Cru
8. If the producer bought Grand Cru grapes, the wine can be labeled Grand Cru along with the vineyard name and the producer
9. As opposed to Bordeaux the vineyard (land plot) is more the focus of the wine and not the producer.

(in reply to rbazinet)
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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/3/2011 1:43:21 PM   
Bryan Collins

 

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1. The land is divided up into two main regions: 1 cote de nuits and 2 cote de beaune (lets ignore chablis and beaujoulais etc… for now)
Correct. All the red Grands Crus apart from Corton are in the Cote de Nuits. All the white Grands Crus are in the Cote de Beaune. There are many very good reds in the Cote de Beaune, but relatively few very good whites in the Cotes de Nuits. The two Cotes are collectively known as the Cote d'Or (golden slope.)

2. These two main regions are further subdivided into areas (volnay, pommard etc …)
Correct - the names of these "areas" are generally the names of the main village in each one. Often these village names have changed over the years to incorporate the name of one of their most famous vineyards - eg Chambolle-Musigny, Gevrey-Chambertin, etc.

3. These areas are then divided into “plots” which are called vineyards
Correct - although not all of the land in these areas is necessarily under vine.

4. A grower grows grapes on the “plots”/vineyards
Yep.

5. The quality of the grapes was predetermined (Grand Cru, Premier Cru, Village and Regional) etc ..
Pretty much. It's important to remember that the classification level depends on the POTENTIAL quality of that vineyard. For example, if some doofus bought Romanée-St-Vivant, a Grand Cru vineyard, and made rubbish wine for 50 years, it would still be a Grand Cru vineyard.

6. A producer (winemaker), who is not the grower, then buys grapes from the vineyards
Sometimes. Many, if not most, of the very top wines are made by producers who own the vines from which their grapes come, but there are some extremely grand wines that are "negociant" wines - ie the winemaker buys in the grapes, or sometimes even signs a long-term agreement with the vineyard owner to look after the vines and make wine from the grapes. Many big names in Burgundy like Jadot and Drouhin operate in both ways; some of their wines, often called "domaine" wines, are from their own grapes, while other wines, called "negociant" or sometimes another term such as "maison" wines, are from bought-in grapes or leased vines. Also bear in mind that most vineyards in Burgundy are owned by many different growers - dozens, often - who may sometimes only own a row or two of vines each.

7. A producer can buy grapes from several plots and thus make several wines from different places, but does not mix grapes for Grand or Premier Cru
Or, indeed, own several vineyards in several villages and make wine from all of them. If the grapes from more than one Premier Cru vineyard are blended together, then as long as the vineyards are in the same appellation (ie village), the wine can still be sold as Premier Cru, but without a vineyard designation. But if they are from different appellations, it becomes basic Bourgogne. Also, wines can be "declassified" - if a producer owns vines in a very posh vineyard and thinks some of the fruit is not up to the quality they'd like, they can move it down a quality level. Many producers with Grand Cru vineyards will sell some wine from that vineyard as Premier Cru or even village-level wine, most commonly the fruit from young vines that have been recently replanted (vines are not immortal.)

8. If the producer bought Grand Cru grapes, the wine can be labeled Grand Cru along with the vineyard name and the producer
Yep. Although often a Grand Cru wine won't actually say "Grand Cru" on the label in an obvious manner. Grands Crus in Burgundy are their own appellation - for example, a Musigny is NOT from the appellation "Chambolle-Musigny", as all C-M Premier Cru and village wines are, but rather from the appelation "Musigny".

9. As opposed to Bordeaux the vineyard (land plot) is more the focus of the wine and not the producer.
Hmmmmm. Yes and no. The vineyard ("terroir") is certainly a major factor, but so is the grower/producer. For example, a Clos St Jacques (a famous and great Premier Cru vineyard in Gevrey Chambertin) from Armand Rousseau will often cost £250+ per bottle, whereas a wine from the same vineyard from Sylvie Esmonin will probably be under £100. Also some larger vineyards have "good" bits and "not so good" bits, and it's worth knowing which producers own the better bits. All in all I would say that Burgundy is ALL about producer. I would happily buy a wine I'd never tried from a producer I'd trusted, but I'd be much, much more circumspect about buying a "famous" vineyard from a producer I've never heard of.

(in reply to rbazinet)
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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/3/2011 2:21:35 PM   
rbazinet

 

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Bryan,
Thank you. I think I got it. Your example with Clos St Jacques being made by two different winemakers clarified a lot to me. So did calling it a Premier Cru vineyard – in a way, a very technical way, that sounds more accurate than calling it a Premier Cru wine.

However, I am well aware of Richard Feynman’s quote “If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you do not understand quantum mechanics”.

(in reply to Bryan Collins)
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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/3/2011 2:39:11 PM   
treetops

 

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Can't help agreeing that that the new "Great Domaines" book is a bit of a disappointment. I've all three editions and this last one is lacking. I have to say that Remington Norman's new "Grand Cu" book is excellent though. I read the introduction and skipped straight to chapter twelve, but that's not to say the chapters in between aren't worth reading. He has without doubt, for me, captured the essence of tasting. or if you will "understanding", burgundy wine. Of course, this is very much from a european perspective so it might not suit all.

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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/3/2011 6:57:14 PM   
rbazinet

 

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treetops,
I am a bit biased. I think all books should discuss what Bryan reported above before they get into the detail. I have not finished the book, so I will wait. However, a few things bugged me already.

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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/4/2011 5:29:34 PM   
khmark7

 

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Nice explanation everyone, and thanks.  I'm interested in diving into Burgundy....someday.

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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/4/2011 6:53:42 PM   
musedir

 

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THANK GOD I still like Bordeauxs!

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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 2/4/2011 10:35:25 PM   
TobyAnscombe

 

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Burgundy - Very expensive pinot noir.

There you go, what more do you need to know? Other than Bdx beat Burg last time out

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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/17/2022 10:18:09 AM   
Wine Grove

 

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This Burgundy thread seems like one that could be interesting to re-visit.... So, Calling all Burgundy afficianados to chime in with some updates, please


Curious to source a few good examples of Burgundy that "exemplify the magnificence of the region " as another poster stated


So, we have great vintages recently such as 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 and on.


Any recommendations from this board?


And where are the best places to source Burgundy wines in California area?


(in reply to TobyAnscombe)
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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/17/2022 10:22:06 AM   
Wine Grove

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bryan Collins

All in all I would say that Burgundy is ALL about producer. I would happily buy a wine I'd never tried from a producer I'd trusted, but I'd be much, much more circumspect about buying a "famous" vineyard from a producer I've never heard of.



So who are the Top Producers today??

(in reply to Bryan Collins)
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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/17/2022 3:13:06 PM   
mye

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wine Grove

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bryan Collins

All in all I would say that Burgundy is ALL about producer. I would happily buy a wine I'd never tried from a producer I'd trusted, but I'd be much, much more circumspect about buying a "famous" vineyard from a producer I've never heard of.



So who are the Top Producers today??


Leroy, DRC, CLB, Rousseau, Dujac, Tremblay, Gibourg, Roumier, Coche, Raveneau (Chablis region).


If you are able to put cost aside.. bottles from the above producers will rarely miss...

< Message edited by mye -- 1/17/2022 3:14:37 PM >

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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/17/2022 3:58:40 PM   
chrisrsprague

 

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It was my understanding that "Côte d'or" was shorthand for Côte d'Orient, meaning east facing, not Gold Slope as might understandably be assumed.

(in reply to Wine Grove)
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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/17/2022 4:17:10 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mye

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wine Grove

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bryan Collins

All in all I would say that Burgundy is ALL about producer. I would happily buy a wine I'd never tried from a producer I'd trusted, but I'd be much, much more circumspect about buying a "famous" vineyard from a producer I've never heard of.



So who are the Top Producers today??


Leroy, DRC, CLB, Rousseau, Dujac, Tremblay, Gibourg, Roumier, Coche, Raveneau (Chablis region).


If you are able to put cost aside.. bottles from the above producers will rarely miss...

The secondary market already has already identified most of the top producers. Any remaining ones are closely held secrets.

(in reply to mye)
Post #: 17
RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/17/2022 4:42:35 PM   
Echinosum

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mye
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wine Grove
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bryan Collins
All in all I would say that Burgundy is ALL about producer. I would happily buy a wine I'd never tried from a producer I'd trusted, but I'd be much, much more circumspect about buying a "famous" vineyard from a producer I've never heard of.

So who are the Top Producers today??

Leroy, DRC, CLB, Rousseau, Dujac, Tremblay, Gibourg, Roumier, Coche, Raveneau (Chablis region).

If you are able to put cost aside.. bottles from the above producers will rarely miss...

The producer is indeed everything in Burgundy. And some producers are worshipped. When you buy from them, it can be like one of those restaurants that have menus with no price listed. If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.

I was recently looking, through prurience, though an offer of Burgundy 2020. When I saw the price they were asking for one of those producer's Bourgogne Rouge, I thought that must be a mistake. That must surely be the price of a case of 6 bottles, not per single bottle. For that price, you can buy Premier Cru wines from pretty reputable producers. But it was no mistake. That's how much being an elite producer can matter.

I thought Ponsot were in the handful of worshipful producers. They certainly used to be.

I think there is something to be said that it is in the top stuff that Burgundy sets itself apart. Outside that you are paying for a dream, and all too often the dream is all you will get.

(in reply to mye)
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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/17/2022 5:02:43 PM   
S1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mye

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wine Grove

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bryan Collins

All in all I would say that Burgundy is ALL about producer. I would happily buy a wine I'd never tried from a producer I'd trusted, but I'd be much, much more circumspect about buying a "famous" vineyard from a producer I've never heard of.



So who are the Top Producers today??


Leroy, DRC, CLB, Rousseau, Dujac, Tremblay, Gibourg, Roumier, Coche, Raveneau (Chablis region).


If you are able to put cost aside.. bottles from the above producers will rarely miss...

Add Mugnier, Trapet, Lafarge, and PYCM.
Lamarche wines are becoming top tier (and priced accordingly).
Any list without Roulot needs a second thought.


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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/17/2022 9:41:53 PM   
Paul852

 

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Alternatively, drink wine that's just as pleasureable from almost anywhere else at a tiny fraction of the price! Burgundy is, in my opinion, one of the most ludicrously over-hyped products (of any type) in the entire world, on a par with NFTs of primates having a wash.

< Message edited by Paul852 -- 1/17/2022 9:43:03 PM >

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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/17/2022 11:00:35 PM   
rthpal

 

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Paul852, I agree with you. I find several of the wines from Sta. Rita Hills (including Brewer-Clifton) to be very enjoyable and good value. Years ago, I used to drink lots of Burgundy (incl. DRC), but when IMHO even Bouchard Pere et Fils Beaune du Chateau Premier Cru became too expensive, I stopped.

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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/17/2022 11:51:47 PM   
slaughterer

 

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The relentless price hikes and the cruelly reduced allocations for Burgundy make it difficult to really experience the region anymore IMO. You have to laugh cynically at a Burgundy producer that allocates, say, 3 bottles to an entire country of millions of people at triple the price of last year (real life example). More and more there are good alternatives, like, say, (starts to take cover), artfully produced Oregon Pinots (Antica Terra et.al.), German Pinots (Chat Sauvage at.al.) and, say, (goes in bunker), Rieslings crafted like Burgundy chardonnays (Von Winning, Gut Hermannsberg, Schloss Gobelsburg, et.al.). For those who will not accept these alternatives, and cannot source/afford Rousseau et.al. options can be found in the young Burgundy winemakers who are still affordable and producing ascending quality, like (I am taking just one example, no commercial connection) Agnes Paquet, etc. There are other tricks for achieving good value in the region as well, but those are diminishing with time. I stopped buying into the Burgundy region seriously in 2015, and will likely not be returning except opportunistically through lucky auctions for back filling.

< Message edited by slaughterer -- 1/17/2022 11:58:03 PM >


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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/18/2022 2:31:58 PM   
grizzlymarmot

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wine Grove

This Burgundy thread seems like one that could be interesting to re-visit.... So, Calling all Burgundy afficianados to chime in with some updates, please


Curious to source a few good examples of Burgundy that "exemplify the magnificence of the region " as another poster stated


So, we have great vintages recently such as 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016 and on.


Any recommendations from this board?


And where are the best places to source Burgundy wines in California area?




I am not going to complain about Burgundy prices because I think that it is possible to "exemplify the magnificence of the region " without breaking the bank.
Producers may have the name but the magnificence lies in the defined terroir. So that means you can pick a modest producer to produce a superb Burgundy experience.

For a producer, pick a large one. Take Louis Jadot, for example. If Jadot can not make a Pommard that tastes like a Pommard should, then he will go out of business. Just try the Pommard and compare it to a bottle of Bourgogne. If there is nothing for you there, stop or choose another producer. Once you have found some wines you like, get another village to compare. Compare a Pommard (Cote de Nuit) to a Gevrey-Chambertin (Cote d'Or). Young Burgundy tastes phenomenal. So for reds, I would advise 2019, for whites 2018. (For the past several years 2017 reds have been awesome young, but those days may be over.) This will start your journey - other awesome comparisons could be two Cote d'Or - like Chambolle-Musigny and Gevrey-Chambertin. If you remain intrigued, then you will start to spend some money because you may want to compare some Premier Cru with the village wines. At some point you can start to deep dive and compare Pommard Les Epenots to Pommard Les Rugiens - both Premier Cru. This would be Burgundy 101 (or perhaps Burgundy $1001 - if you get into it.) When it comes to cellaring - it is hard to source aged Burgundy. Optimally, you would be on your Burgundy journey with some Premier Cru bottles that have about 10 years on them - 2011 are quite good right now. The cellar can refine some of the terroir differences in the higher tier wines.

Personally, I am never planning to have a DRC wine. I doubt I will ever even try a Richbourg by any producer.

(in reply to Wine Grove)
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RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/18/2022 4:08:45 PM   
jmcmchi

 

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To avoid confusion: the Cote d’Or includes both the Cote de Beaune (effectively Santenay to Pernand Vergelesses via Pommard, Beaune and Aloxe-Corton) and the Cote de Nuits (Premeaux to Fixin via Vosne, Vougeot, Chambolle and Gevrey)

The best presentation of the geography that I know is in Johnson’s World Atlas of Wine

(in reply to grizzlymarmot)
Post #: 24
RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/18/2022 6:42:59 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

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Like any region, the best way to find the gems that don't cost an arm and a leg is to spend time there. Eat at the small bistros and brasseries. Taste as many producers outside of the big negociants.

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Post #: 25
RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/19/2022 5:26:52 AM   
Echinosum

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: grizzlymarmot
For a producer, pick a large one. Take Louis Jadot, for example. If Jadot can not make a Pommard that tastes like a Pommard should, then he will go out of business. Just try the Pommard and compare it to a bottle of Bourgogne. ...

Jadot is an example of a producer making Premier Crus of well-known vineyards (some of them, not all of them) which you can pick up for less than a bottle of Bourgogne Rouge from Mugneret-Gibourg (OK, I'll name them now).

I understand why you say a bottle of Jadot is a standard exemplar of various well known Cote d'Or wine types. It's unlikely to be appalling. But it is very likely to be unexciting. Look down the CT scores on Jadot Pommard No one has been excited by a bottle of Jadot Pommard. If I spent that money, I would be seriously annoyed to get a bottle of wine like that.

Better substitutes for Burgundy of this quality are widely available for much less money. I can spend a little more than half the price, and buy a cool climate bottle of pinot noir from another country of "Burgundian style" that might actually be really good. It won't be, can't be, just like a top bottle of Burgundy. If it's really good, it might be a perfect exemplar of one of the terroirs of Martinborough or Hemel en Aarde, but not Pommard les Epenots. And even at a less exalted level, it can be good enough, and have enough in common with a general idea of Burgundian style, to make you want to never be bothered with a bottle of Jadot Pommard ever again.

(in reply to grizzlymarmot)
Post #: 26
RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/19/2022 5:41:02 AM   
fanglangzhe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul852
Alternatively, drink wine that's just as pleasureable from almost anywhere else at a tiny fraction of the price! Burgundy is, in my opinion, one of the most ludicrously over-hyped products (of any type) in the entire world, on a par with NFTs of primates having a wash.


I used to think that. But over the last year, I've had several Red Burgs from "lesser" areas such as Mercurey, Santenay, Auxey Duresses all for under USD35 that I thought were better values than Pinot from (for example) Oregon, California, or Central Otago. Or, another alternative is to go for other grapes that offer a similar taste profile at much better value than pinot noir in general.

< Message edited by fanglangzhe -- 1/19/2022 6:07:31 AM >

(in reply to Paul852)
Post #: 27
RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/19/2022 6:21:54 AM   
Paul852

 

Posts: 2652
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From: Hong Kong
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Well that's good to know. Since we're both in HK I'd welcome suggestions of sub-US$35 (HK$300?) red burgs that you feel worth the price.

(in reply to fanglangzhe)
Post #: 28
RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/19/2022 6:28:47 AM   
DrBad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

Like any region, the best way to find the gems that don't cost an arm and a leg is to spend time there. Eat at the small bistros and brasseries. Taste as many producers outside of the big negociants.


This is true. When we visited it seemed the restaurants had bottles of 10-15 y/o Burgundies that were quite good and in the under $100 price range.

But it doesn't seem like you can get decent Burgundies ready to drink for reasonable prices in the US. You can spend that money on 1er Cru but it needs to lay down for 10+ years to be any good.

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 29
RE: Burgundy 101 ... please - 1/19/2022 7:47:19 AM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3599
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DrBad
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

Like any region, the best way to find the gems that don't cost an arm and a leg is to spend time there. Eat at the small bistros and brasseries. Taste as many producers outside of the big negociants.


This is true. When we visited it seemed the restaurants had bottles of 10-15 y/o Burgundies that were quite good and in the under $100 price range.

But it doesn't seem like you can get decent Burgundies ready to drink for reasonable prices in the US. You can spend that money on 1er Cru but it needs to lay down for 10+ years to be any good.

There is just not a whole lot produced that makes it to the US distribution system especially the good stuff. Sure, Wegmans will have old bottles of Remoissenet and Camus. Mediocre wines. I think of good ones as a Macdonald-like operation where the allocation is even more limited. The only way to know is to know someone or eat a restaurant that has the allocation.

< Message edited by DoubleD1969 -- 1/19/2022 9:05:37 AM >

(in reply to DrBad)
Post #: 30
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