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Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 4:13:23 AM   
slaughterer

 

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From: Frankfurt am Main
Status: offline 		Figeac has gotten too expensive, along with all the other greedy Bordeaux in recent vintages. What are stylistically-similar reasonably-priced BDX substititutes? La Dominique? Jean Faux? Certan May? Or just back-vintages of Figeac before pjaines and Khamen buy them all up in the secondary market?

< Message edited by slaughterer -- 5/27/2012 4:14:11 AM >
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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 4:15:12 AM   
Khamen

 

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Status: offline 		Back vintages are universally awful and should be avoided

K

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 4:17:45 AM   
slaughterer

 

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Status: offline 		Especially the 1998.

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 4:19:35 AM   
slaughterer

 

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Joined: 7/4/2010
From: Frankfurt am Main
Status: offline 		Seriously though, for example, is La Dominique 2009 a more fruity, modern Figeac at 15% the price? Figeac was always sort of a unique case in Bordeaux, but it seems some producers nowadays are trying to produce Figeac-like wines.

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 4:20:32 AM   
S1

 

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Status: offline 		just buy more Perrot-Minot

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 4:24:53 AM   
slaughterer

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 7/4/2010
From: Frankfurt am Main
Status: offline 		I am already doing that: but going bankrupt is no fun.
I was hoping to get in on the ground floor of some BDX Figeac clone, if there is any. Seems like a good marketing choice for long-lost Saint Emilion to produce a low-budget Figeac imitation.

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 4:37:29 AM   
Khamen

 

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From: near Stonehenge, UK
Status: offline 		Sorry i was being mean, but people make me nervous when they go out and buy Figeac when i have no room.

As i'm sure u know the thing about Figeac is the high proportion of cabs in the blend (70% or so is the norm). A very fine alternative is the very close neighbour in Pomerol VCC but this is hardly the bargain option.

If it has to be St Emillion then there are a vast number of producers, but the Figeac style is pretty unique. If u are looking for an absolute bargain St Emillion then Laroque is surprisingly good for the money. U may also want to try something like Destieux or Grande Mayne. These are all more merlot-heavy

However, for an alternate i am heading west. For value then Dom de Chevalier can't be beaten, but my choice, maybe bizzarely is a Margaux - Brane Cantenac

If u want to go bonkers left field then leave France altogether and try Paleo Rosso from Macchiole in Tuscany. Random!

K

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 4:38:52 AM   
Khamen

 

Posts: 5543
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From: near Stonehenge, UK
Status: offline 		And of course Ornellaia's Serre Nuove is just terrible and no way a substitute for anything. Ever

K

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 6:23:20 AM   
pjaines

 

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From: London
Status: offline 		+1 on Dom de Chevalier. There is still that mineral element that you get in Figeac as well.



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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 7:20:11 AM   
TexasWineGeek

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Khamen

Sorry i was being mean, but people make me nervous when they go out and buy Figeac when i have no room.

As i'm sure u know the thing about Figeac is the high proportion of cabs in the blend (70% or so is the norm). A very fine alternative is the very close neighbour in Pomerol VCC but this is hardly the bargain option.

If it has to be St Emillion then there are a vast number of producers, but the Figeac style is pretty unique. If u are looking for an absolute bargain St Emillion then Laroque is surprisingly good for the money. U may also want to try something like Destieux or Grande Mayne. These are all more merlot-heavy

However, for an alternate i am heading west. For value then Dom de Chevalier can't be beaten, but my choice, maybe bizzarely is a Margaux - Brane Cantenac

If u want to go bonkers left field then leave France altogether and try Paleo Rosso from Macchiole in Tuscany. Random!

K


+1 on the Brane-Cantenac.  OUTSTANDING.

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 11:21:27 AM   
slaughterer

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 7/4/2010
From: Frankfurt am Main
Status: offline 		Brane Cantenac as Left-Bank Figeac substitute. Brilliant! Wish I would have thought of that. There is a similarity of approach there, certainly. But what about the properties bordering Figeac? Are any of them trying to imitate the grand master?

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Post #: 11
RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 12:11:02 PM   
grafstrb

 

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From: LAla land
Status: offline 		Good to hear the positive comments re: Brane-Cantenac; I just bought a bottle of their '82 ........... along with a bottle of the '82 Branaire-Ducru.

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 12:14:50 PM   
Khamen

 

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From: near Stonehenge, UK
Status: offline 		Careful grafs, i last had the 82 Brane about 18 months ago from perfect provenance and it was only just clinging on. For Brane it can be risky pre-2000 or so

K

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 12:23:28 PM   
LST

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline 		On the Pomerol and St Emillion side I liked 98' and 05'. Some 88's and 90's of the top tier, a few 95's

Pavie and Trop. Mondot at top teir, Angelus when you can find it. but $$.

next tier:
La Dominque, Certan Marzelle,

Bargains:
Ripeau, Monbousquet

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 12:37:46 PM   
grafstrb

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Khamen

Careful grafs, i last had the 82 Brane about 18 months ago from perfect provenance and it was only just clinging on. For Brane it can be risky pre-2000 or so

K

Good to know. It will be opened less than two months from now. Lots of recent CT notes make it sounds like many bottles are still truckin' along quite nicely.

< Message edited by grafstrb -- 5/27/2012 12:38:21 PM >

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 1:14:26 PM   
champagneinhand

 

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From: Upstate New York, California born.
Status: offline 		Its interesting to see so many on the lower LB change up their blends from year to year. Many in Margaux are using a high percentage of Merlot, than ever before. Same goes for the Pessac in many ways, though they have always seemed to blend more than just 2 or 3 of the Bdx varietals. I am quickly switching my favorite commune from St. Julien to the Pessac. While old Pauillac and some from St. Estephe still are grand, they generally need a generation of cellar time, so I won't be buying many more vintages from those 2 communes.

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 1:27:04 PM   
pjaines

 

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Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: offline 		Pessac has always been my favourite Bordeaux region - lots of minerals and slate and terroir. In weaker vintages I always go for Figeac and Pessac as I think the more austere style are worn well by these wines.

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 1:35:24 PM   
khmark7

 

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Status: offline 		I always look for left or right bank wines with a larger amount of Cabernet Franc in the blends....stuff like du Tertre, Angelus, d'Armailhac and several from the Pessac.  Chateau Canon is a nice right bank as well, when i can find it.   Phelan Segur is another classic styled wine, although from St. Estephe.

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 3:08:41 PM   
Khamen

 

Posts: 5543
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From: near Stonehenge, UK
Status: offline 		Du Tertre is a great call. By Bordeaux standards it is basically free, and the 2005 is both lovely and age-worthy. Now controlled by the Giscours guys. Angelus is a good call on the cab franc, but it's more expensive than the Figeac!

K



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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 4:00:40 PM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 10664
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: offline 		I have a case of 05 Tertre tucked away in the cellar, which is good news. I would say that outside of the usual suspects I do like Roc du Cambes from Cotes du Bourg - owned by Tertre Roteboeuf and really good stuff. Not sure it is in the same style of Figeac though.

From Pessac I am partial to Carbonnieux - with a bit of age the reds are excellent value. The whites are not too shabby either. Just dont tell anyone., Ssssshhhhh

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RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 5:00:04 PM   
StefanAkiko

 

Posts: 795
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From: Sweden, living in Yokohama (Japan)
Status: offline 		Why even look for substitutes when there are so many other great things to explore whilst working on your career moves in order to finance Figeac by the case?

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Post #: 21
RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/27/2012 5:10:02 PM   
StefanAkiko

 

Posts: 795
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaughterer
Figeac has gotten too expensive, along with all the other greedy Bordeaux in recent vintages.


2 p's worth of pondering on the equation:

If the market price is $100 per bottle, how much is appropriate for the producer to get?
If the market price is $100 per bottle, how much is appropriate for the négociant to get?
If the market price is $100 per bottle, how much is appropriate for the next tier middleman to get?

IMHO the greatness of Bordeaux is created by the Châteaux, not the négociants nor the middleman - they only function as banks and have no part in the creation of greatness.

I also think that we will all see greater and better wines from Bordeaux if the majority of the money we spend on their wine end up in the Châteaux's pockets. I don't think that any amount of money in négociant/next tier layer's pockets will ever improve the quality of wine in Bordeaux the slightest bit.

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Post #: 22
RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/28/2012 3:52:09 AM   
ddemirci

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 5/19/2012
From: Welwyn Garden City - UK
Status: offline 		Try chateau la reverence, it's half price of the Figeac and it honestly tastes good.

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Post #: 23
RE: Figeac Substitutes??? - 5/28/2012 3:54:17 AM   
ddemirci

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 5/19/2012
From: Welwyn Garden City - UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LST

On the Pomerol and St Emillion side I liked 98' and 05'. Some 88's and 90's of the top tier, a few 95's

Pavie and Trop. Mondot at top teir, Angelus when you can find it. but $$.

next tier:
La Dominque, Certan Marzelle,

Bargains:
Ripeau, Monbousquet


Monbousquet is really good, I sold all my bottles of the 2004 vintage in a few weeks, all my customers loved it, and I found it really pleasant.

(in reply to LST)
Post #: 24
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