Old World in the New World

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Old World in the New World - 7/19/2013 11:45:13 PM

puppetclause

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Looking for examples of consistent old world styling in the new world. Ridge, Mayacamas, GDL, Heitz, Inglenook, etc. Doesn't have to be cab by any means, just curious what new world producers lean towards a more european sensibility.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/20/2013 12:05:46 AM

ChrisinCowiche

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There have been claims that ALL of Washington's wines mirror the Old World character with New World fruit. But you probably would like a little more specifics.

For Cabs, I'd say Seven Hills, Owen Roe (high end), Columbia Winery (higher end stuff at least before the Gallo buyout), Hightower, Isenhower, DiStefano, BonAir (reserves only). Of these unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, most of the higher end stuff is NOT widely distributed.

For Syrahs/Rhones the list is longer (I think), and really there are only a few WA Syrahs I avoid due to their "Over the topness". Easier to list those maybe and for me that includes most of K Vintners/Charles Smith. Some hot weather sites such as Wahluke and Red Mountain I generally don't like as much as the cooler site stuff, Yakima or Walla Walla either. But I love some of those too. Just depends on the year and the producer.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/20/2013 3:03:35 AM

Ibetian

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Togni comes to mind.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/20/2013 3:17:14 AM

thesternowl

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Both Clos du Val and St. Supery are both widely available, inexpensive (relatively), and quite old world in style.

Tulocay also comes to mind...but a bit harder to find nationally.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/20/2013 3:39:11 AM

khmark7

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Due to the weather, location and varietals planted I find that the wines produced in the NY Finger Lakes and upper Michigan, around Traverse City are very old world in style. You rarely find any wines over 13% alcohol.

Lagier Meredith from California is the classic Old World producer.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/20/2013 5:14:46 AM

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+1 on Togni (patience, much patience) and Lagier-M
Arnot-Roberts, Peay, new Copain Syrahs
Drinkward-Pescon with some age straddles both worlds beautifully

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/20/2013 6:00:13 AM

J2K

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Tablas Creek Esprit de Beaucastel
Plenty of old world influence there and a very good wine.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/20/2013 7:03:24 AM

recotte

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There's a fantastic little winery, Dacalier, that you may have heard of....

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/20/2013 8:46:22 AM

Stirling

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For whites, I would say Kumeu River from New Zealand. Could pass for a Premeir or Grande Cru Burgundy easily. Recent vintages of Woodward Canyon Chardonnay are moving that way as well.

I agree with Chrisinsunnyside's comment above about WA. Betz and DeLille are two wineries that are quite Old World in style.

Some of the OR Pinot Noirs, Domaine Drouhin to name one, have quite an Old World expression.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/20/2013 9:11:47 AM

Paul S

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+1 for Kumeu River, especially for the Mate's Vineyard, though I would say 1er Cru rather than Grand Cru.

I would also add Domaine Drouhin for Pinot, the old vintages 1970s and 1980s of Clos du Val Reserve and Mondavi Private Reserve Cabs, and perhaps some Dominus as well. Grosset for dry Riesling in Australia is another pretty old-wroldish wine.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/20/2013 2:16:08 PM

puppetclause

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quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

There's a fantastic little winery, Dacalier, that you may have heard of....

Da! You reminded me I never grabbed a case of the 08 de la terre. Smig, Just put my order in...

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/21/2013 7:03:10 PM

ckinv368

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Thomas pinot. Fantastic juice!

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/21/2013 8:33:54 PM

Robert Pavlovich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

Due to the weather, location and varietals planted I find that the wines produced in the NY Finger Lakes and upper Michigan, around Traverse City are very old world in style. You rarely find any wines over 13% alcohol.

Lagier Meredith from California is the classic Old World producer.

I'd call Lagier Meredith a hybrid of sorts...I say that because the wines are approachable when young.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/21/2013 8:36:59 PM

Robert Pavlovich

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For Burgundian stuff sourced from Sonoma Coast, RRV, and Anderson Valley fruit, Littorai comes to mind.

+1 on Togni for Cabernet. Would also add that Calluna definitely leans European and is well worth your while Jeff.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/22/2013 5:38:54 AM

champagneinhand

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I will second some of the drier wines from the finger lakes. They will have a higher ABV than Austria or Germany, but it usually goes with the ripeness of the fruit. Chardonnay from Lamoreaux Landing is just over !3%. Rieslings are in that same area. Ravines Wine cellars is actually distributed and sells mostly bone dry wines. Dr. Frank liens more towards German riesling, as does Heron Hill, but both have great amounts of minerals. There are a lot more, but its hard to keep up on them unless I am at a tasting. Not to much room in the cellar left, and most are available at the cooperative stores, in town.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/23/2013 12:00:30 AM

puppetclause

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Robert Pavlovich

For Burgundian stuff sourced from Sonoma Coast, RRV, and Anderson Valley fruit, Littorai comes to mind.

+1 on Togni for Cabernet. Would also add that x definitely leans European and is well worth your while Jeff.

Definately looking into Littorai, I like the sound of reviews that can't tell it from a grand cru burg...

Been planning a 3 week road trip to just do an absolute ton of tasting and figure lots of this stuff out for myself. Want to go through Paso, Napa, Oregon, and Washington but there doesn't seem to be a break in work for a long, long time....

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/23/2013 12:01:52 AM

puppetclause

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quote:

ORIGINAL: champagneinhand
I will second some of the drier wines from the finger lakes. They will have a higher ABV than Austria or Germany, but it usually goes with the ripeness of the fruit. Chardonnay from Lamoreaux Landing is just over !3%. Rieslings are in that same area. Ravines Wine cellars is actually distributed and sells mostly bone dry wines. Dr. Frank liens more towards German riesling, as does Heron Hill, but both have great amounts of minerals. There are a lot more, but its hard to keep up on them unless I am at a tasting. Not to much room in the cellar left, and most are available at the cooperative stores, in town.

would love to explore the finger lakes but I feel like that juice just doesn't make it's way down to California. When I'm up in the area for a wedding in a month I'll try and nab some of these producers if I can find them.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/23/2013 12:40:47 AM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: puppetclause

quote:

ORIGINAL: champagneinhand
I will second some of the drier wines from the finger lakes. They will have a higher ABV than Austria or Germany, but it usually goes with the ripeness of the fruit. Chardonnay from Lamoreaux Landing is just over !3%. Rieslings are in that same area. Ravines Wine cellars is actually distributed and sells mostly bone dry wines. Dr. Frank liens more towards German riesling, as does Heron Hill, but both have great amounts of minerals. There are a lot more, but its hard to keep up on them unless I am at a tasting. Not to much room in the cellar left, and most are available at the cooperative stores, in town.

would love to explore the finger lakes but I feel like that juice just doesn't make it's way down to California. When I'm up in the area for a wedding in a month I'll try and nab some of these producers if I can find them.

The Finger Lakes is terrible about using distributors. Maybe 5 or so wineries actually use them. It really makes no sense

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/23/2013 4:20:34 AM

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Littorai does NOT taste like GC Burg but it is wonderful wine. Not too long ago I was completely fooled by a Peay Chard, served blind.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/23/2013 4:30:16 AM

Yossarian

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Escarpement in New Zealand make lovely pinot noir that are more classical in their structure.
Hamilton Russell in South Africa make lovely Pinot as well.....stamped through with terroir.
ClonaKilla in Australia make brilliant Northern Rhone style Syrah, especially their top end Shiraz-Voignier blend.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/23/2013 6:55:47 AM

zonk

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On the pinot side Rhys and maybe some of the Anderson Valley stuff from Copain or Anthill farms. Think most of those producers straddle the line of old world style, but with California fruit.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/23/2013 7:13:40 AM

ericindc

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I would say Rhys, Williams Selyem, Antica Terra, Birichino (new). Honestly, I haven't explored American Pinot as much as I would like. I used to think ROAR was in that category, but now that I've had a few more vintages... not so much.

Also, I wouldn't say that these are identical to burgundy. They are balanced and should age well. At least in regards to Selyem, I've had 15 yr old pinots that were fantastic. Just had their basic russian river valley pinot (2001), and found it drinking extremely well.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/23/2013 12:47:01 PM

mjobtx

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J2K mentioned one of the Tablas Creek wines. They have several that are old world style but that is what you would expect from the Perrin family and Robert Haas. The original root stock came from the Rhone area, some surreptitiously. They have their own nursery, root stock fields, and growing and grafting operation. Interesting visit too.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/23/2013 7:32:40 PM

BornToRhone

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I like Peay, Littorai, Rhys for making Cali wines which do not follow the Cali typical mantra. I think a lot of it comes down to ripeness, extraction, and oak (actually the lack of all three). Let's not forget when these three are diminished, it kinda lets the terroir show through.

As CIH mentioned, the FL wines (reisling, gewurtz) also have alot of mineral character due to the shale in the area. Standing on the shores of the fingerlakes you always find layers and layers of broke shale. Tis gets into the wine to some extent, although more so the closer tou get to the lakes.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/24/2013 4:21:46 AM

puppetclause

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mjobtx

J2K mentioned one of the Tablas Creek wines. They have several that are old world style but that is what you would expect from the Perrin family and Robert Haas. The original root stock came from the Rhone area, some surreptitiously. They have their own nursery, root stock fields, and growing and grafting operation. Interesting visit too.

Palmina seems like the italian varietal version of Tablas Creek to some extent. I'm not familiar enough with Italian wines to know if what they're making is 'traditional' (something tells me on the whole it's not, they're extracted as hell) but like TC they are importing rootstock from all over italy, sometimes waiting a decade or more for them to clear our version of roostock 'customs'.

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RE: Old World in the New World - 7/24/2013 7:50:39 AM

BRR

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Rotie Cellars in Walla Walla is self-professed, "Old World Wines from New World Vines," right from their website. Here's more from the site:

"Since 2007, winemaker and owner Sean Boyd's goal has been to make traditional Rhone blends in Washington State. Boyd's winemaking philosophy is simple- combine old world winemaking techniques with the highest quality Rhone varietals that Washington has to offer. Boyd sources from some of the best and oldest vineyards in the state in an effort to showcase the most elegant blend possible, while ensuring the typicity of the fruit is expressed."

I've had some of then, and I think they're excellent. We'll see how they compare to Old World Rhones on August 10 (Seattle offline, where a Rotie Cellars Southern Blend will be served blind in a flight with at least two CdP).

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