Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes?

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Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/13/2016 9:46:16 AM

BRR

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I popped a bottle of 2002 Cayuse En Chamberlin Vineyard Syrah last week and was floored. A short back story: I decided, on a lark years ago, to sign up for this mailing list of a winery I had started to hear buzz about, Cayuse. I had very little disposable income, so had absolutely no business buying anything. However, I went in for a case of Syrah. Then, the following year, I thought better of the sudden expenditure and didn't buy. Bye-bye mailing list spot. I drank most of them within the first two to three years, and liked them fine.

Fast forward to last week, and I have one of each En Chamberlin, En Cerise, and Cailloux. I'm back on the list today and have ordered the '13 and '14, but don't plan to touch them anytime soon (when I actually get them). Folks have said that Quilceda Creek underwent a significant stylistic shift somewhere around the 1998 vintage in which they went away from a more restrained Cab to the modern, very concentrated, more oak-driven Cab. With this 2002 Syrah from Cayuse, I was absolutely shocked at how much luscious fruit was there. Sure, there was some funk, earth, meatiness in there, but the most notable thing about the wine was the gorgeous fruit. When I've been fortunate to taste a few more recent Cayuse vintages (thanks in very large part to the amazingly generous Seattle CT Offline Crew!), I notice more funk, earth, etc. and less overt fruit.

So, my ultimate question is this: for you experienced Cayuse drinkers, has Christophe undergone any stylistic changes over the years? Has he purposely played up the "Rocks" character in his wines. Or, will this gorgeous fruit come out with age? Was there a "shift," even a minor one, akin to what QCreek did (meaning, a change, not what many consider to be a bad change in the case of Quilceda)?

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/13/2016 9:54:34 AM

mc2 wines

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Also interested to hear - just procured some '02 En Chamberlin and En Cerise from Brentwood. Very reasonable prices and thus far have liked the older Cayuse we've had ('04 being the oldest vintage).

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/13/2016 11:59:29 AM

BRR

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Nice pickup, mc2 wines!

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/13/2016 12:10:52 PM

mc2 wines

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BRR

Nice pickup, mc2 wines!

Yes when someone offers $60 Cayuse I am game. Read your note before we pulled the trigger which got me to hoping that the CT drinking window is as normal a bit on the conservative side.

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/13/2016 12:34:02 PM

Slye

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc2 wines

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRR

Nice pickup, mc2 wines!

Yes when someone offers $60 Cayuse I am game. Read your note before we pulled the trigger which got me to hoping that the CT drinking window is as normal a bit on the conservative side.

I am curious about what others say to this as well. At the moment I prefer Cayuse with age. Link Brendan I was there in the early days (though unlike him I stayed!)

I love the older ones (and still have some -- $60 is a great price by the way!).

I was thinking that I did not like the younger ones as much as I prefer older wines -- but now this makes me curious if there has been a stylistic change.

I will say that I have found some of the 2005s, and to some extent 2004s, to be a bit too jammy and fruit-bomby for my taste. that has not been the case with all of them, and the earlier ones I really love.

Maybe we should do a vertical tasting of one or two of the single vineyard syrahs?

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/13/2016 3:16:13 PM

ChrisinCowiche

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I don't have much experience with Cayuse, having only tasted maybe 7-8 bottles of various wines over the years. My first taste was of an early vintage, 1998 I think, and I was surprised at how normal the wine tasted, having read prior to that about the famous funk. It was a good clean Syrah, but nothing remarkable imo. Then I realized that wine and perhaps many from Cayuse's early releases may not have been grown in the Rocks. Christophe first planted Callioux there in 1997, and has continued through to now expanding, as have others. En Chamberlin was planted in 2000, so a 2002 wine from there would perhaps be very first picking. Some of his early bottles were labelled Columbia Valley I think so may not have even been Walla Walla fruit.

Therefore, I'd attribute a lot of the style change, if there is one, to vine age since his earliest vines are now 20 years old. Whether he does things differently in the winery now to emphasize the funk would only make sense too, imo and I've been told by a couple of winemakers his wines' funk is at least partly brettanomyces, which for sure could have been emphasized more some vintages over others. Please note that I don't think this is a bad thing as he clearly knows what he is doing, as do some other French winemakers where brett is present.

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/13/2016 3:16:55 PM

f22nickell

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slye

quote:

ORIGINAL: mc2 wines

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRR

Nice pickup, mc2 wines!

Yes when someone offers $60 Cayuse I am game. Read your note before we pulled the trigger which got me to hoping that the CT drinking window is as normal a bit on the conservative side.

I am curious about what others say to this as well. At the moment I prefer Cayuse with age. Link Brendan I was there in the early days (though unlike him I stayed!)

I love the older ones (and still have some -- $60 is a great price by the way!).

I was thinking that I did not like the younger ones as much as I prefer older wines -- but now this makes me curious if there has been a stylistic change.

I will say that I have found some of the 2005s, and to some extent 2004s, to be a bit too jammy and fruit-bomby for my taste. that has not been the case with all of them, and the earlier ones I really love.

Maybe we should do a vertical tasting of one or two of the single vineyard syrahs?

Let's do it! (hint hint)

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/13/2016 6:05:28 PM

Wine Gopher

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quote:

ORIGINAL: f22nickell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slye

quote:

ORIGINAL: mc2 wines

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRR

Nice pickup, mc2 wines!

Yes when someone offers $60 Cayuse I am game. Read your note before we pulled the trigger which got me to hoping that the CT drinking window is as normal a bit on the conservative side.

I am curious about what others say to this as well. At the moment I prefer Cayuse with age. Link Brendan I was there in the early days (though unlike him I stayed!)

I love the older ones (and still have some -- $60 is a great price by the way!).

I was thinking that I did not like the younger ones as much as I prefer older wines -- but now this makes me curious if there has been a stylistic change.

I will say that I have found some of the 2005s, and to some extent 2004s, to be a bit too jammy and fruit-bomby for my taste. that has not been the case with all of them, and the earlier ones I really love.

Maybe we should do a vertical tasting of one or two of the single vineyard syrahs?

Let's do it! (hint hint)

For that, I might try to find a reason to take a trip to Seattle.

(in reply to f22nickell)

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/14/2016 8:13:48 AM

Stirling

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When people think of Cayuse they think of Syrah, and rightly so. But if you get the opportunity, check out their Impulsivo, made in the Rocks from 100% Tempranillo. Every bit as good as their Syrahs. Had it blind a few months ago in a tasting up against Alion and Remirez de Ganuza Reserva. Impulsivo was the best of the three. As to stylistic changes, my first Cayus was the 2002 Camaspelo, and the most recent was the 2007 Impulsivo just mentioned. I have had several Cailloux inbetween, maybe six bottles in total, and I cannot tell you that I have noticed a stylistic shift (sample size is probably too small to be valid anyhow). I do agree with the general consensus that he is making some the best wines in the State, and probably the whole country, too.

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/14/2016 8:15:17 AM

mc2 wines

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stirling

When people think of Cayuse they think of Syrah, and rightly so. But if you get the opportunity, check out their Impulsivo, made in the Rocks from 100% Tempranillo. Every bit as good as their Syrahs. Had it blind a few months ago in a tasting up against Alion and Remirez de Ganuza Reserva. Impulsivo was the best of the three. As to stylistic changes, my first Cayus was the 2002 Camaspelo, and the most recent was the 2007 Impulsivo just mentioned. I have had several Cailloux inbetween, maybe six bottles in total, and I cannot tell you that I have noticed a stylistic shift (sample size is probably too small to be valid anyhow). I do agree with the general consensus that he is making some the best wines in the State, and probably the whole country, too.

That is good to know. We were lucky enough to get recotte's No Girls allocation which included some Tempranillo. I wasn't aware they made any, but took a flier on it. Sounds like that was the right call.

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/14/2016 8:41:56 AM

BRR

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Really interesting info, ChrisinSunnyside. I think you may have hit the nail on the head: not necessarily a stylistic change, per se, but rather the result of some pretty darn young vines. From what I've read, younger vines tend to be both inconsistent in fruit quality, and also more overtly fruity (less nuance, less complexity). Since En Chamberlin was possibly made with fruit from baby 2-year-old vines, all that fruit could be a direct result. I was impressed, though, with its energy, sweetness (in a good way, mind you, and not from R.S.), and youthfulness.

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/14/2016 4:10:33 PM

Hollowine

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You also have other factors to consider...

Weather...we've had some really swing-extreme vintages

Vineyard management...they continue to push boundaries with spacing and trellis design. Most wines will remain the same within the Vineyard designate, but comparing Cailloux to Armada to Horsepower vineyard would be many differences. Not to mention the as yet unmentioned...oops, never mind

Equipment/Winery...I doubt he was fermenting in Concrete Eggs in 1999...as he's experimented and upgraded the winery, there are bound to be evolutions to the wine profiles

I don't think he is overtly changing the wines to drive to a different style, but I have certainly had years I like better than others based on Fruit/Funk ratio.

And Slye..."Maybe we should do a vertical tasting of one or two of the single vineyard syrups?"... I seem to remember a PM about 4 months ago...

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/14/2016 4:50:34 PM

skifree

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I went back and looked at my tasting notes for Cayuse, and think I agree with Hollowine and CiSS on their conclusions. I have not discerned a real pattern myself that stands out.

The one year that David Schildnecht reviewed Washington for the Wine Advocate m (2012), he did talk about the changes Baron and Boucier are making in the "wine studio" and vineyard such as frequent tilling with horses and a move away from new oak. They are also excavating to see how far the roots go; the only stat quoted was 10 feet down after 3 years.

I love the idea of a vertical tasting from one vineyard - happy to contribute to make that happen.

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/14/2016 10:45:05 PM

cartey

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Where's the sign up sheet for the vertical??

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/15/2016 11:48:02 AM

BRR

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In following up on this discussion, I reached out to some connections (who will remain anonymous) that gave me some fantastic insight. Essentially, this change is mostly attributable to the maturation and evolution of the vines. It was noted that all vines evolve differently and, in the case of En Chamberlin, the transition has been for a bit less over fruit, and more savory elements showing up in the juice as the years go by. It was also pointed out that, in contrast to En Chamberlin, the fruit coming from En Cerise has been evolving, as the vines age, in a reverse process. The savory notes in En Cerise are becoming a bit less prominent and the fruit is taking more of a forward seat. I find it fascinating that fruit from two vineyards, so close together (relatively speaking), is progressing in very different (opposite!) ways. It was pointed out that the winemaking really hasn't changed much at all, mainly because Christophe has always tried to let as much of the terrior of the vineyards show through. Again, it's mostly about the fruit, vineyards, and the raw material changing as the vines age.

It was also pointed out that, if one reads professional reviews from these wines, their notes reflect some of these changes as well in subsequent vintages.

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/15/2016 1:18:14 PM

Slye

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BRR

In following up on this discussion, I reached out to some connections (who will remain anonymous) that gave me some fantastic insight. Essentially, this change is mostly attributable to the maturation and evolution of the vines. It was noted that all vines evolve differently and, in the case of En Chamberlin, the transition has been for a bit less over fruit, and more savory elements showing up in the juice as the years go by. It was also pointed out that, in contrast to En Chamberlin, the fruit coming from En Cerise has been evolving, as the vines age, in a reverse process. The savory notes in En Cerise are becoming a bit less prominent and the fruit is taking more of a forward seat. I find it fascinating that fruit from two vineyards, so close together (relatively speaking), is progressing in very different (opposite!) ways. It was pointed out that the winemaking really hasn't changed much at all, mainly because Christophe has always tried to let as much of the terrior of the vineyards show through. Again, it's mostly about the fruit, vineyards, and the raw material changing as the vines age.

It was also pointed out that, if one reads professional reviews from these wines, their notes reflect some of these changes as well in subsequent vintages.

Oh that is very interesting -- and in fact is consistent with what I have been noticing as well. I find En Cerise a bit sharper on the fruit -- i.e. the Cherry (though at times I wondered it was just due to the suggestive power of the name!). En Chamberlain I am liking more, in part because of its savory qualities. Cailloux seems to be in the middle a bit. And as you point, fascinating that there can be such changes from the same grapes grown so close to each other. But of course that is in part the story of Bordeaux, Burgundy, etc.

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/23/2016 12:05:03 PM

dawgdaze

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Does anyone have a current Google map of the Cayuse vineyards showing what vines produce where En Chamberlin, Cailloux, Armada, Horsepower etc.
Thanks for any help.

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RE: Has Cayuse gone through any stylistic changes? - 1/23/2016 12:34:21 PM

ChrisinCowiche

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dawgdaze

Does anyone have a current Google map of the Cayuse vineyards showing what vines produce where En Chamberlin, Cailloux, Armada, Horsepower etc.
Thanks for any help.

No, but this project by Paul Zitarelli (Damn Paul, Full Pull Wines) is best I've ever seen mapping WA/OR vineyards. I'm sure if others provided the long/lat or GPS coordinates, Paul would add the Cayuse sites. I've provided him that info for a few sites in Yakima Valley and elsewhere. In fact I need to send him the coordinates for a new vineyard I know about just northwest of Yakima.