Shameless commerce: where to take it

CellarTracker Main Site

Shameless commerce: where to take it

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Cellar Talk] >> General Discussion >> Shameless commerce: where to take it

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Shameless commerce: where to take it - 10/2/2017 4:35:30 PM

KPB

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline

My cellar is groaning and it has me thinking of trades: a bottle of ‘07 Rayas for 2x Macdonald ‘14, that sort of thing. Eric prohibits use of the site for that kind of commerce, and since I have probably 50 cases I could consider offering, it might be a lot of activity.

So, don’t respond to my example, but does anyone have very good experience with this problem? Not really interested in selling wine for cash, my goal is rarities... so the question is trading.

How often have you been burned? Back in college days, when I dabbled in activities that are now legal in many states but were dodgy back then, there was often a moment when things went badly wrong. Off would go your Rayas, back would come... 2 buck chuck, with the label written over “Macdonald”, if anything came back at all.

Is it Wild West out there? Or are there safe ways to transact such exchanges?

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

Post #: 1

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 10/2/2017 4:51:13 PM

Posts: 14826
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline

pm sent

_____________________________

Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 2

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 10/2/2017 4:57:48 PM

BornToRhone

Posts: 3131
Joined: 2/14/2012
From: The Big D, Texas
Status: offline

Who ever wants to participate could join FaceBook under their CT name, and form a private group in FB for wine stuff (open allocations, trades, etc.)

Downside is it is a permanent record of potential shipments into states where shipping is illegal.

_____________________________

-- The answer may not lie at the bottom of a bottle of wine, but you should at least check. --

(in reply to S1)

Post #: 3

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 10/2/2017 5:05:25 PM

Slye

Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/3/2013
Status: offline

I have traded using Wineberserkers commerce corner. I think 2 or 3 times. One time the person was a bit late in sending the wine -- but it seems he was traveling a lot and it ended up arriving eventually.

You could try WB's commerce corner, or try the Facebook idea or something else like that (you could do a group email to those who might be interested....)

(in reply to BornToRhone)

Post #: 4

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 10/2/2017 6:24:49 PM

KPB

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline

So do people report getting burned on that commerce board? It only has to happen once to have the whole thing break down... if I offer genuinely good wines, that has to lure a certain kind of scammer.

How do people make the actual exchange? Is there a WB middleman involved, or do they just both send bottles by UPS more or less simultaneously? Or can you insist on a face to face exchange in a neutral place like a good New York wine bar? I might favor the latter, frankly. Back in the day I had some hair-raising experiences. Too old for that now... plus the chance to see the bottles reduces the whole Coravin risk.

Or is this all about trust?

< Message edited by KPB -- 10/2/2017 6:25:20 PM >

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to Slye)

Post #: 5

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 10/3/2017 12:29:29 AM

Slye

Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/3/2013
Status: offline

There is no middleman. Though there was some discussion about that I think somewhere on the board. In person definitely lowers risk. I don't know enough to know if anyone has been burned or not. You might want to stick to people you know on CT to try to minimize risk. I would be happy to let you know who I traded with on WB. But I think it is only one or two people. The other suggestion is to do some due diligence on the site to see who has traded with the person and get recommendations. I would start with people you know or people you can meet in person. Then if that does not work decide if you want to expand and increase risk a bit.

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 6

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 10/3/2017 5:29:35 AM

fingers

Posts: 8247
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline

Would this be the 4-tier system?

(in reply to Slye)

Post #: 7

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 10/3/2017 6:57:32 PM

KPB

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline

Thanks! Honestly, I got burned enough back in college to perhaps not be able to do this other than face to face now! Of course there are always the auction sites...

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to fingers)

Post #: 8

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 8/12/2021 11:20:56 PM

vino_per_tutti

Posts: 3
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline

Hi Eric:

I've been spammed quite a bit recently by a member who seems to be campaigning for "top commenter on Cellartracker" by sending spurious comments on every note posted over the last several weeks. Any way to shut this down? If not, is there some way to block commenters on tasting notes?

Thanks

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 9

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 8/12/2021 11:26:31 PM

Paul852

Posts: 2653
Joined: 6/27/2018
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline

Not sure that question is in the right place, but I agree that certain high-frequency commenters do become irritating with huge numbers of comments basically saying nothing except "thanks for the TN". I don't want to block them because they do have useful tasting notes.

It seems to me that having the "Most Comments" column of the "Most Active People" on the front page of the website does encourage this behaviour whilst offering no great benefit. When someone makes 30+ comments every single day the signal to noise ratio is going to be extremely low!

A much more useful "Most of" metric to have in its place, it seems to me, would be "People with the most useful votes on their TNs" either as an absolute number, or as a ratio of helpful votes to TNs.

< Message edited by Paul852 -- 8/12/2021 11:31:31 PM >

(in reply to vino_per_tutti)

Post #: 10

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 8/13/2021 2:11:27 AM

Echinosum

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vino_per_tutti
I've been spammed quite a bit recently by a member who seems to be campaigning for "top commenter on Cellartracker" by sending spurious comments on every note posted over the last several weeks. Any way to shut this down? If not, is there some way to block commenters on tasting notes?

If you go to your privacy settings, you can restrict comments on your TNs to friends, friends and fans, and similar options, or entirely prevent comments on all your TNs.

When you put in a new tasting note, there is an "advanced" option at the bottom of the page. If you click that you will find an option to turn off comments on that specific tasting note.

If you go to the profile page of a specific user, there is a menu on the right hand side to "block" that user. But I can't find a specification of exactly all of the things that does, eg, whether it stop them commenting on your notes. People seem to use it mainly so that they don't see the tasting notes of users whose notes they consider random, and exclude them from the average score that displays for them.

(in reply to vino_per_tutti)

Post #: 11

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 8/13/2021 2:57:48 AM

Paul852

Posts: 2653
Joined: 6/27/2018
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline

The difficulty is that I have had several useful comments on TNs from people who weren't friends or fans so I don't want to restrict comments generally.

The problem is here: https://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?Table=Comments&iUserOverride=0&iCommentUser=390698
The content-free "Good to know" (and similar) are about 40% of his total comments, and probably 80% of his comments to tasters that he doesn't appear to be friends with. At over 30 comments a day every day on average that's a lot of non-content. Only one other member averages more than 5 comments a day.

The guy does write what appear to me to be useful tasting notes, so I don't want to block him entirely.

(in reply to Echinosum)

Post #: 12

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 8/13/2021 3:29:34 AM

BenG

Posts: 846
Joined: 5/5/2009
From: Australian in Idaho
Status: offline

Good to know, thanks for the post!

(in reply to Paul852)

Post #: 13

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 8/13/2021 4:57:14 AM

Franklin 10

Posts: 1419
Joined: 12/8/2011
From: Indianapolis
Status: offline

Blocking the user does not block their comments. Agree this is a problem. I previously found notes with comments to often be very informative but have stopped opening the comments because of the high likelihood it is no value.

The users with the most "helpful" notes column is a great idea. Adding the CT handle of the commenter to the TN comment link so it can be seen before clicking would be welcome. Being able to block comments from a user would be useful, too.

Back to the original thread: I would be interested in trades, too, KPB. I have considered posting on Bezerker enough to become eligible for the commerce corner but have similar concerns about the stress associated with swapping without safeguards. Not making a solicitation but hope this discussion leads somewhere.

_____________________________

the Empirate

"Jim Harrison, northern Michigan's favorite son and food lover, once told me, 'One of the main causes of premature death is fretting about your diet.' He then topped up my glass of wine."
-abra berens

(in reply to BenG)

Post #: 14

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 8/13/2021 7:31:47 AM

Eric

Posts: 17317
Joined: 10/10/2003
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

Blocking a user prevents them from adding future comments to your notes.

_____________________________

Cheers!
-Eric LeVine

http://twitter.com/cellartracker
http://facebook.com/cellartracker

(in reply to Franklin 10)

Post #: 15

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 8/13/2021 8:18:28 AM

fingers

Posts: 8247
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: Santa Ana, CA
Status: offline

Many, if not most, of us know the handle of the culprit we're discussing here. He seems like just an overly friendly chap with good intentions, but the lack of any usefulness to his comments make his habit tiresome to some and ridiculous to others. Perhaps it is worth a try for several of us to reply to his comments with a simple, "thank you, but could you actually make a comment that contributes to the discussion about the wine, or even ask a question about my tasting note?"

Not sure if this would prompt any change in his behavior, but it seems less dramatic than reporting or blocking the user.

Maybe we just send him a link to this thread

(in reply to Eric)

Post #: 16

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 8/13/2021 8:39:13 AM

KPB

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline

@Eric, when extending the system, why not consider a feature like the Facebook one -- you don't have "defriend" a person (block them) to "unfollow" them. But if you do unfollow them, all their postings basically vanish -- you could simply sort the comments and drop the unfollowed ones to the very bottom, for example. The unfollowed friend isn't aware that you are finding their postings tiresome, and doesn't go through the psychological hurt of being defriended ("never talk to me again!").

I do block some users -- when something really seems unethical or over the top to me. Probably people block me too. But I think a middle ground would be valuable.

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to fingers)

Post #: 17

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 8/13/2021 9:12:23 AM

Paul852

Posts: 2653
Joined: 6/27/2018
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fingers

Many, if not most, of us know the handle of the culprit we're discussing here. He seems like just an overly friendly chap with good intentions, but the lack of any usefulness to his comments make his habit tiresome to some and ridiculous to others. Perhaps it is worth a try for several of us to reply to his comments with a simple, "thank you, but could you actually make a comment that contributes to the discussion about the wine, or even ask a question about my tasting note?"

Not sure if this would prompt any change in his behavior, but it seems less dramatic than reporting or blocking the user.

Maybe we just send him a link to this thread

Indeed. It seems to me that giving a TN a helpful vote works much better than adding a content-free comment. We should suggest to him that he tries it.

(in reply to fingers)

Post #: 18

RE: Shameless commerce: where to take it - 8/13/2021 10:02:28 AM

racerchris

Posts: 1622
Joined: 6/22/2015
From: Bolton, CT
Status: offline

TBF, he also posts meaningful comments on peoples' notes, asks questions, and posts plenty of his own tasting notes.
I have to assume he actually has the wines he's making these inane comments on.

_____________________________

Chris Foley
Searching for very good to excellent, cheap Bordeaux
stainlesswineracks.com

(in reply to Paul852)

Post #: 19