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South African Farm Seizures - 8/20/2018 11:43:12 AM

Poppacork

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Joined: 2/8/2018
From: South Carolina
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It will be interesting to see how this plays out with the South African wine industry. I imagine that it will create tremendous downward pressure on land values and discourage new investments.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/south-africa-begins-seizing-whiteowned-farms/news-story/8937f899bd3f131bfc4ffb648ea5c53b

Post #: 1

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/20/2018 12:07:49 PM

cigar52

Posts: 345
Joined: 8/15/2013
From: California... now Sarasota, FL
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If they can successfully expropriate the land of Farmers I would guess they would be looking at productive Wine Farmers next.

(in reply to Poppacork)

Post #: 2

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/20/2018 1:54:32 PM

khmark7

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Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
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The article is from April, and this topic has been gathering a good amount of international interest this year, so it would be interesting to follow the developments, but it also becomes very political and probably best debated elsewhere. All i will say is that it is never possible to rectify the sins of the past, you can only move forward.

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(in reply to cigar52)

Post #: 3

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/20/2018 2:26:03 PM

CranBurgundy

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From: Philly / South Joizey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

it also becomes very political

Which is why I haven't made any comment on it, as every time I started typing I realized Eric would give me the boot if I hit the OK button to submit my post.

I figure if I'm gonna get myself axed from yet another forum, I'll make it really worthwhile and go out in a blaze of glory. This topic isn't up to that kind of incendiary standards so I won't waste a good rant.

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 4

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/20/2018 6:53:27 PM

WineGuyCO

Posts: 3802
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From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

it also becomes very political

Which is why I haven't made any comment on it, as every time I started typing I realized Eric would give me the boot if I hit the OK button to submit my post. I figure if I'm gonna get myself axed from yet another forum, I'll make it really worthwhile and go out in a blaze of glory. This topic isn't up to that kind of incendiary standards so I won't waste a good rant.

LOL You’re on thin ice

Rick

(in reply to CranBurgundy)

Post #: 5

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/20/2018 7:51:24 PM

Slye

Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/3/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

The article is from April, and this topic has been gathering a good amount of international interest this year, so it would be interesting to follow the developments, but it also becomes very political and probably best debated elsewhere. All i will say is that it is never possible to rectify the sins of the past, you can only move forward.

Now that is a topic that I have spent most of my professional life studying and consulting. To oversimplify, one needs to address the past sufficiently in order that one can move forward. And of course the question then is, what is sufficient? Happy to chat offline more about this if you want. SA has had both successes and failures in this regard. (SA is one of the places where I have done a bunch of this work.)

(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 6

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/21/2018 3:33:26 AM

khmark7

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Slye, don't have your email. You PM? Curious to hear your thoughts?

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Post #: 7

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/21/2018 9:24:00 AM

dsGris

Posts: 4712
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From: Portland, OR
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Just reroute over to Wine Berserkers, no shortage of political views and discussion over there.

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(in reply to khmark7)

Post #: 8

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/21/2018 9:26:41 AM

Slye

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Joined: 8/3/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dsGris

Just reroute over to Wine Berserkers, no shortage of political views and discussion over there.

Yes, though the general tenor and tone supports the decision here to avoid such topics. :-)

(in reply to dsGris)

Post #: 9

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/21/2018 9:50:48 AM

Ibetian

Posts: 3576
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From: Sarasota, FL and the Berkshires
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I haven’t been on WB in a while, since each time I got an Amazon users pop up that seemed like some kind of virus.

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(in reply to Slye)

Post #: 10

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/21/2018 12:05:42 PM

Eddie

Posts: 6242
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From: central Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ibetian

I haven’t been on WB in a while, since each time I got an Amazon users pop up that seemed like some kind of virus.

You don't use AdBlocker?

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Post #: 11

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/21/2018 1:55:14 PM

dsGris

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From: Portland, OR
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I just try not to embarrass myself too badly, but that doesn't seem to faze many others over there.

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DennisG
Granpa Wino

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Post #: 12

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 4:46:26 AM

hankj

Posts: 4672
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Seattle, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slye
Now that is a topic that I have spent most of my professional life studying and consulting. To oversimplify, one needs to address the past sufficiently in order that one can move forward. And of course the question then is, what is sufficient? Happy to chat offline more about this if you want. SA has had both successes and failures in this regard. (SA is one of the places where I have done a bunch of this work.)

Not that he needs the affirmation, but Slye might know more about African issues of truth and reconciliation than anyone else in the US. It is an inherently political topic, but he approaches it not from the remove of (whichever) ideology, but the reality of a lifetime in direct contact with all African factions working to find resolutions that do the most good and least further harm. If you are involved in the offline conversation he's well worth listening to.

< Message edited by hankj -- 8/24/2018 10:55:16 AM >

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(in reply to Slye)

Post #: 13

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 5:58:28 AM

Poppacork

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I would like to hear Slye's thoughts on the issue if there is a discussion via PM.

My intent on starting the public thread here was only to engage in discussion on how this may effect the SA wine industry.

(in reply to hankj)

Post #: 14

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 8:31:57 AM

fingers

Posts: 8249
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From: Santa Ana, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dsGris

Just reroute over to Wine Berserkers, no shortage of political views and discussion over there.

Is there a SA thread over there? I’m not seeing anything, especially with Slye’s input

(in reply to dsGris)

Post #: 15

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 10:03:00 AM

recotte

Posts: 6873
Joined: 1/19/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hankj

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slye
Now that is a topic that I have spent most of my professional life studying and consulting. To oversimplify, one needs to address the past sufficiently in order that one can move forward. And of course the question then is, what is sufficient? Happy to chat offline more about this if you want. SA has had both successes and failures in this regard. (SA is one of the places where I have done a bunch of this work.)

Not that he needs the affirmation, but Slye might know more about African issues of truth and reconciliation than anyone else in the US. It is an inherently political topic, but he approaches it not from the remove of (whichever) ideology, but the reality of a lifetime in direct contact with all African factions working to find resolution that do the most good and least further harm. If you are involved in the offline conversation he's well worth listening to.

We have some amazing people in this forum.

And then there's me.

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(in reply to hankj)

Post #: 16

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 1:05:48 PM

Slye

Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/3/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hankj

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slye
Now that is a topic that I have spent most of my professional life studying and consulting. To oversimplify, one needs to address the past sufficiently in order that one can move forward. And of course the question then is, what is sufficient? Happy to chat offline more about this if you want. SA has had both successes and failures in this regard. (SA is one of the places where I have done a bunch of this work.)

Not that he needs the affirmation, but Slye might know more about African issues of truth and reconciliation than anyone else in the US. It is an inherently political topic, but he approaches it not from the remove of (whichever) ideology, but the reality of a lifetime in direct contact with all African factions working to find resolutions that do the most good and least further harm. If you are involved in the offline conversation he's well worth listening to.

Oh dear, that is embarrassing. Thanks for the kind words Henry! I would be happy to chat with people via pm on this issue, though I have not been following the details that closely. I did note that there was some support for changing the Constitution to provide for no compensation for expropriated property, which is worrisome. I can understand how 100% market compensation might be problematic given the country's history, but zero seems to raise its own serious problems. I am reluctant to start a discussion or participate in a discussion on WB, as I am afraid it may quickly devolve into political polemics. I do not profess to either know everything that is being contemplated in SA, nor what should be done to address historical injustices there. I do strive to learn more by following some of the SA papers, and chatting when I can with friends in SA with whom I trust.

(in reply to hankj)

Post #: 17

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 1:07:25 PM

Slye

Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/3/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

quote:

ORIGINAL: hankj

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slye
Now that is a topic that I have spent most of my professional life studying and consulting. To oversimplify, one needs to address the past sufficiently in order that one can move forward. And of course the question then is, what is sufficient? Happy to chat offline more about this if you want. SA has had both successes and failures in this regard. (SA is one of the places where I have done a bunch of this work.)

Not that he needs the affirmation, but Slye might know more about African issues of truth and reconciliation than anyone else in the US. It is an inherently political topic, but he approaches it not from the remove of (whichever) ideology, but the reality of a lifetime in direct contact with all African factions working to find resolution that do the most good and least further harm. If you are involved in the offline conversation he's well worth listening to.

We have some amazing people in this forum.

And then there's me.

My recollection is that you are pretty amazing as well! At a time when online forums can quickly become toxic, this one has remained pretty focused on topics that interest us all, who probably have very different views on many other things. That is both a tribute to Eric and how he has nurtured the space, but also to the vast majority of us, including you recotte, who participate.

(in reply to recotte)

Post #: 18

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 1:28:18 PM

KPB

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From: Ithaca, New York
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I really like the tone of the board these days, hope we all continue to stick to these policies.

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(in reply to Slye)

Post #: 19

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 3:27:16 PM

jmcmchi

Posts: 3220
Joined: 8/6/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

I really like the tone of the board these days, hope we all continue to stick to these policies.

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 20

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 3:56:06 PM

CranBurgundy

Posts: 8272
Joined: 1/5/2016
From: Philly / South Joizey
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....and then there's me, posting with my head in the guillotine, monitored constantly by Eric who has his hand on the release lever.

(in reply to jmcmchi)

Post #: 21

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 4:21:07 PM

BenNoir

Posts: 921
Joined: 7/9/2014
From: Snoqualmie River Valley, WA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slye

quote:

ORIGINAL: dsGris

Just reroute over to Wine Berserkers, no shortage of political views and discussion over there.

Yes, though the general tenor and tone supports the decision here to avoid such topics. :-)

+1

Troll avoidance is essential to a peaceful hang out.

(in reply to Slye)

Post #: 22

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 5:35:45 PM

dsGris

Posts: 4712
Joined: 8/31/2009
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

I agree, we can discuss sensitive issues without becoming political. I works really well to write a post, think a bit and delete. You can get it off your chest without offending others.

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(in reply to BenNoir)

Post #: 23

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 7:11:16 PM

KPB

Posts: 4658
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

....and then there's me, posting with my head in the guillotine, monitored constantly by Eric who has his hand on the release lever.

Like wine, the tone would be dull if everyone was cut from the same mold. So a moldy curdgeon or two adds a certain spice and verve. Heck, Eric has been ready to pull that lever on me more than a few times. I’m a moldy SOB myself.

But the key is to not get angry at one another. None of us is a saint beyond some threshold, but nobody said we had to be saints. Just interested in wine.

So... Keep it coming!

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to CranBurgundy)

Post #: 24

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 7:31:22 PM

WineGuyCO

Posts: 3802
Joined: 9/5/2017
From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

....and then there's me, posting with my head in the guillotine, monitored constantly by Eric who has his hand on the release lever.

I’m right there with you Dennis but I am channeling my Inner Peace, calmer self. You and I just need to not comment on any France threads.

. I promise not to.

Rick

(in reply to CranBurgundy)

Post #: 25

RE: South African Farm Seizures - 8/24/2018 7:34:18 PM

WineGuyCO

Posts: 3802
Joined: 9/5/2017
From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

quote:

ORIGINAL: CranBurgundy

....and then there's me, posting with my head in the guillotine, monitored constantly by Eric who has his hand on the release lever.

Like wine, the tone would be dull if everyone was cut from the same mold. So a moldy curdgeon or two adds a certain spice and verve. Heck, Eric has been ready to pull that lever on me more than a few times. I’m a moldy SOB myself.

But the key is to not get angry at one another. None of us is a saint beyond some threshold, but nobody said we had to be saints. Just interested in wine.

So... Keep it coming!