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Wine Politics - NY style - 3/15/2009 7:15:21 PM   
mclancy10006

 

Posts: 4510
Joined: 3/19/2007
From: Cape Cod, MA & Bellevue, WA
Status: offline 		This post isn't about taxes (we have plenty) or candidates (We have a few not in jail I think), but about the politics around selling wine.  There is a big "to do" about a proposal to allow supermarkets/big box stores sell wine in New York state. Right now the big guys are "boxed" out and most of the wine retailers are small businesses. The small shops are saying if you change this you will kill jobs in this economy and the big guys are saying the state will raise more money this way.

http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/editorials/story/599943.html

I am mixed on this. My general experience in living is other states is most of the big guys tend to sell plonk anyway so it would not really get me good wine to me for less money and high end wine will be a niche sellers market still. On the other hand it would seriously suck to have some of the good shops I use today go under since they are not making the volume and margins in selling the "yellow tail" audience anymore.

Anyone else have a point of view on this?

-Mark

Post #: 1
RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/15/2009 7:19:01 PM   
duck833

 

Posts: 256
Joined: 5/13/2008
From: Eugene, Oregon
Status: offline 		Let the free market work.  In Oregon we can buy wine everywhere.  In reality the specialty shops sell the good stuff and the grocery stores sell plonk. 

Now if we could get rid of our state controlled liquor stores and get hard liquor in grocery stores and Costco it would be perfect.

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/16/2009 4:41:15 AM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 10664
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: offline 		It amazes me that the US allows what effectively is state-control over alcohol sales - I thought it was the capitalist economy over there - not 1960s Russia!!!.  In most of Europe you buy from anywhere, from anyone without government restriction.  Our scandanavian friends are the exception.  That is why they are so desperate to drink all the time!!!

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/16/2009 5:10:34 AM   
smahk

 

Posts: 1482
Joined: 2/23/2007
From: NY & FL
Status: offline 		AS a NYer with a vested interested in the Long Isalnd Wines, I think selling in supermarkets, big box and convenience stores will INCREASE wines profile.

I visit Florida often and notice that even CVS sells wine.  Yes, it is mass market stuff that I am not interested in, but it offers a good introduction to wine in a friendly environment that doesn't seem as specific as a liquor store.  Operating in addition are package stores that sell hard liquor and more specialized wines, like ABC stores.

Many states offer wine for sale in the same venues NY is seeking and have complementary stores that offer finer wine and hard alcohol.  Funny that it takes the enticement of INCREASED licensing fees to change these archaic laws.  Costco and Sams Club can sell beer, but not wine!

The reason for not changing the law?  Maybe some small retailers that mostly sell the mass market stuff might go out of business.  Or maybe they will change their business model.

I agree.  Let the free market decide.  If you offer a unique product or knowledge or experience, the small stores will thrive with consumers desperate to not buy "supermarket" wine.

Long Island Wineries are mixed.  They have good relationships with local wine shops, and try to insure their product gets distributed.  But grocery stores here are committed to offering Long Island wines (maybe even wider distribution of Finger Lakes Wines too) in addition to their Long Island Local produce, in season.

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/16/2009 12:42:14 PM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11424
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		Here in Illinois supermarkets can sell wine, beer and hard alcohol, and there are still plenty of independent liquor stores doing just fine (economy withstanding).

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/16/2009 8:06:19 PM   
gbm

 

Posts: 2220
Joined: 3/12/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pjaines

It amazes me that the US allows what effectively is state-control over alcohol sales - I thought it was the capitalist economy over there - not 1960s Russia!!!.  In most of Europe you buy from anywhere, from anyone without government restriction.  Our scandanavian friends are the exception.  That is why they are so desperate to drink all the time!!!


But the "founding fathers" - at least a good proportion of them - were Puritan.  It's not so much about state control as it is alcohol control...special stores, special rules.  In Connecticut, you can't even buy alcohol on Sundays (in a store - bars and restaurants are a different story).

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/17/2009 6:55:20 AM   
pbm

 

Posts: 2983
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: New Hope, Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I've lived in NJ, PA, and VA.  In PA you can only buy wine through the state stores, beer can only be bought in "box stores" and you can only by some limited quantity at a time - -12 bottles I think. Forget about having anything shipped in legally. The whole thing is a joke and if it wasn't from insane deals every now and then from the state stores that sell wine it would be even worse.

NJ and VA are much more reasonable. VA still tries to protect its own vineyards by restricting shipping. NJ with less of a state interest is overrun with small wine shops, they accept shipping from out of state, AND they sell wine in supermarkets, Costco, etc. Based on that experience I'd say the small shops have nothing to fear as long as they know what they are doing relative to selection/price and provide good service.


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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/17/2009 11:16:57 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 7118
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		Puritan maybe, but from a background of religious persecution.
Hence the separation of religion and state and many other insightfull nuances to your constitution.
I'm surprised later generations haven't had the foresite of the "founding fathers", otherwise you couldn't be portrayed as institutionally supporting any particular belief.
L.

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/17/2009 11:25:49 AM   
gbm

 

Posts: 2220
Joined: 3/12/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		The line between church and state is often very fuzzy - such as the prohibition of alcohol (wine-related topic  )  sales on Sundays - but I will agree they did a fantastic job.  One which it would be difficult, if not impossible, to replicate today.

I really do hate politics, though. 

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Post #: 9
RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/17/2009 12:14:21 PM   
drycab

 

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From: Jupiter, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gbm

I really do hate politics, though. 


Mee Too!  To the point that it will end a discussion if it comes up.  It involves opinions and people get to worked up about it to have a real discussion so I just choose not to.

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I did....I drank it.......

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/17/2009 12:17:53 PM   
gbm

 

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Joined: 3/12/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: drycab

Mee Too!  To the point that it will end a discussion if it comes up.  It involves opinions and people get to worked up about it to have a real discussion so I just choose not to.


And on that note, I will head to the cellar to choose tonight's indulgence.  Suggestions are welcome.  (I will probably be drinking it by itself.)

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Post #: 11
RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/18/2009 4:14:40 AM   
annerk

 

Posts: 6122
Joined: 10/16/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		I've lived in CT, NY, NJ, and FL.  CT is the most restrictive and FL is a free for all.

In Florida the wine shops don't seem to be suffering at all that wine is sold pretty much every where.  The wines sold in 7-11 and CVS, well, I'll drink water, thanks.  In the grocery stores it's generally a pretty dismal selection, Publix has a few decent bottles that I would drink if there was nothing else.  If anything it gives the shop owners the ability to provide better service (which often translates into more sales) to "real" buyers as opposed to the people that come in looking for a $10 magnum.

I can't recall if you can buy beer in liquor stores in NY or not.  At one point I don't think you could.  In my opinion, if you have a license for retail sales of alcohol, you should be able to sell ALL alcohol unless your license is beer and wine only.

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/18/2009 4:25:01 AM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 10664
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: offline 		You do realise this all sounds extremely bizarre to English people.  The one thing we are good at in England is making sure people can get their hands on booze anywhere and at anytime without restriction.

That is why we are a nation of drunken louts and hooligans.

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Post #: 13
RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/18/2009 5:59:23 AM   
khmark7

 

Posts: 11424
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Chicago suburbs
Status: offline 		In the midwest there are a lot of Scandinavian and Germanic settlers from the old world who came here to pretty much brew and drink beer...and maybe avoid persecution overseas but that's not as important as brewing beer.   Probably why there are more lax rules here.  Remember that Wisconsin was the last state to raise the drinking age to 21.

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Post #: 14
RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/18/2009 6:24:18 AM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 7118
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		"Of 20 countries where comparable data is available, the UK ranks only 14th in alcohol consumption per head - well behind consumption levels in France and Germany."|
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/business_money/call+to+halt+alcohol+tax+plans/3035592
L.

PS  I guess we just don't carry it off as well as them, or maybe it's just a limited number of British yobs and yobesses getting smashed over and over again (that sounds about right).

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/18/2009 6:40:51 AM   
drycab

 

Posts: 3714
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Jupiter, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: khmark7

In the midwest there are a lot of Scandinavian and Germanic settlers from the old world who came here to pretty much brew and drink beer...and maybe avoid persecution overseas but that's not as important as brewing beer.   Probably why there are more lax rules here.  Remember that Wisconsin was the last state to raise the drinking age to 21.


That's exactly why I went to school at the Univ of Wisconsin-Madison!!

_____________________________

"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" Edward VII

I wish I had some of that.......
I did....I drank it.......

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/18/2009 8:08:02 AM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 10664
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: offline 		Colonel - my wife is always amazed at how much the English drink without food.  I think that is the difference - the French rarely drink without food.  In England it seems to be the law that you can only eat once you have had 7 pints.

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/18/2009 12:17:12 PM   
Colonel Lawrence

 

Posts: 7118
Joined: 4/24/2006
From: Arabia
Status: offline 		I guess the French don't have the English doing the cooking.
L.

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Post #: 18
RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/19/2009 6:57:58 AM   
pbm

 

Posts: 2983
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: New Hope, Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Lawrence

I guess the French don't have the English doing the cooking.
L.



Thank God.

I've had more wine in one night with Paul than I've had at all my business lunches and dinners in France put together since last August. Seriously. I routinely have to remind myself that the wine is to go with the food and not to make a fool of myself by continually draining my glass before my French colleagues. The wine is always great and perfectly paired but I always leave wishing I could have had more.


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Post #: 19
RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/19/2009 7:16:06 AM   
pjaines

 

Posts: 10664
Joined: 5/26/2008
From: London
Status: offline 		Come to my in-laws - that issue isn't a problem.  They drink like fish.

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/21/2009 12:23:26 PM   
wadcorp

 

Posts: 9335
Joined: 10/29/2008
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: annerk

The wines sold in 7-11 and CVS, well, I'll drink water, thanks. 


Our nearby CVS has a really good selection of wines, at good prices. They have Caymus "Conundrum", Penfold "Grange", Merryvale "Starmont", and a number of other nice California & Oregon wines. Fairly light on the French side of things, but a few good Italian wines.

.

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/21/2009 12:43:16 PM   
annerk

 

Posts: 6122
Joined: 10/16/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wadcorp


quote:

ORIGINAL: annerk

The wines sold in 7-11 and CVS, well, I'll drink water, thanks. 


Our nearby CVS has a really good selection of wines, at good prices. They have Caymus "Conundrum", Penfold "Grange", Merryvale "Starmont", and a number of other nice California & Oregon wines. Fairly light on the French side of things, but a few good Italian wines.

.


Wow!  My nearby CVS carries low end Beringer and Mondavi, Sutter Home, Yellow Tail, Kendall Jackson, Gallo (or something else in a jug like Franzia--I never stopped to look that hard) and I think maybe Barefoot and Lake Ridge.  Really deplorable. 

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/21/2009 12:46:22 PM   
wadcorp

 

Posts: 9335
Joined: 10/29/2008
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: annerk

Wow!  My nearby CVS carries low end Beringer and Mondavi, Sutter Home, Yellow Tail, Kendall Jackson, Gallo (or something else in a jug like Franzia--I never stopped to look that hard) and I think maybe Barefoot and Lake Ridge.  Really deplorable. 


I'm serious. The drugstore was originally an Osco & they had done wine tasting there for years. When CVS came in & "took over", they intended to put an end to giving away wine for free. The manager just showed him how much they sold.

As you can imagine, they allowed wine tastings to continue.

.

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RE: Wine Politics - NY style - 3/25/2009 1:08:07 PM   
gbm

 

Posts: 2220
Joined: 3/12/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		From a column in the NY Times discussing the legalization of wine sales in grocery stores -

quote:

NY Times:

"Opposing the proposal is an unlikely alliance of distributors, liquor and wine store owners...and Baptist ministers, who contend that grocery sales would not simply raise the general level of sinning but also facilitate underage drinking."


No offense to any Baptists, and this was clearly tongue-in-cheek, but the reference to "raising the general level of sinning" made me laugh out loud.


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Post #: 24
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