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More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/25/2019 4:25:52 PM

Chip Merlot

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Some interesting tidbits here in the coverage of Premiere Napa Valley. I wasn't aware that Lisa Perrotti-Brown had recommended people avoid the vintage. But there are some people with different opinions.

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2019/02/napa-auction-snatches-victory-from-defeat

Me, I'm continuing to load up on the 2016s. That's a universally well-regarded vintage and will drink a year earlier than the '17s....

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/25/2019 4:41:44 PM

Wine Grove

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chip Merlot

Some interesting tidbits here in the coverage of Premiere Napa Valley. I wasn't aware that Lisa Perrotti-Brown had recommended people avoid the vintage. But there are some people with different opinions.

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2019/02/napa-auction-snatches-victory-from-defeat

Me, I'm continuing to load up on the 2016s. That's a universally well-regarded vintage and will drink a year earlier than the '17s....

I believe 2017 was also a pretty down year for Bordeaux as well, after a nice 3 year run. Lot of frost killed like 50% of their early season growth, particularly on the Right bank.

(in reply to Chip Merlot)

Post #: 2

RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/25/2019 5:15:25 PM

skifree

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I got the idea from L P-B that 2017 was a vintage in Napa with highs and lows, not one to avoid completely. As for Bordeaux, the frost mostly hit the smaller estates further away from the river. The large estates, especially on the Left Bank, apparently made quite good wine, classic in style, likely better than even 2014. The EP scores from Neal, L P-B, Julia Harding, and Jeff Leve were quite consistent between them.

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/25/2019 6:07:00 PM

CranBurgundy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: skifree

I got the idea from L P-B that 2017 was a vintage in Napa with highs and lows, not one to avoid completely.

Heard the same myself. Some producers LOVE their product, while others have scrapped entire crops (Lokoya Mt. Veeder, Screaming Eagle).

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(in reply to skifree)

Post #: 4

RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/25/2019 6:40:39 PM

KPB

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My connections out there have been very quiet about 2017. Here in the CT forum, River Rat probably knows the picture best, but we haven’t heard much from him recently....

< Message edited by KPB -- 2/25/2019 6:41:33 PM >

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/25/2019 6:42:12 PM

dhp.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wine Grove

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chip Merlot

Some interesting tidbits here in the coverage of Premiere Napa Valley. I wasn't aware that Lisa Perrotti-Brown had recommended people avoid the vintage. But there are some people with different opinions.

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2019/02/napa-auction-snatches-victory-from-defeat

Me, I'm continuing to load up on the 2016s. That's a universally well-regarded vintage and will drink a year earlier than the '17s....

I believe 2017 was also a pretty down year for Bordeaux as well, after a nice 3 year run. Lot of frost killed like 50% of their early season growth, particularly on the Right bank.

I think 2017's quality is pretty solid. The frost affected the lesser terroirs moreso than the top estates, so most of the classified growths came out pretty well. Of course, that didn't stop them from maintaining high prices.

Though I think 2017's quality is probably solid, I'm not planning to buy a single bottle given the ludicrous pricing of the vintage. Really don't understand the thought pattern behind the pricing, but I guess if negociants are going to play the fool and buy anyways...

(in reply to Wine Grove)

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/25/2019 7:09:21 PM

mc2 wines

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When we were in Napa this last year we heard that a lot of ppl (even those that thought they wouldn't) had smoke taint. Then again, it was more nebulous - other ppl have smoke taint, we picked beforehand and are fine - kindof saying. So will be interesting to see.

We went long on '15s with wedding wine so will stay reasonable with '16s and prob here on out. Since we like the wines with age it's a lot of aging that needs to happen for '17s to be ready to drink.

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/25/2019 7:25:38 PM

DoubleD1969

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Maybe some will drop off the MacDonald list.

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/25/2019 7:46:19 PM

KPB

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A ray of Hope!

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/26/2019 2:30:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

Maybe some will drop off the MacDonald list.

They picked before the fires.

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/26/2019 5:22:07 AM

DoubleD1969

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quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

Maybe some will drop off the MacDonald list.

They picked before the fires.

Ssshhhh ... most people don't know that info.

In all seriousness, if I remember the conversation correctly, the grapes were already pressed and the juice were in the tanks. There was a period of several days if not a week where that area was off limits to people. Fewer punch downs, less or more contact with the skins, etc. I am interested in how their wines will be, not because of smoke taint but more about the structure. Either way, I'm not dropping.

(in reply to S1)

Post #: 11

RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/26/2019 7:26:40 AM

KPB

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I'm not optimistic about much turnover occurring on that list, or about my likely place on it. Kind of like with frequent flier where when you book your ticket you are amazed to see that you are #2 for upgrade. But on the day of the flight, first class is full and somehow you have slipped to number 162 for upgrade... Even if I was number 2 right now, somehow they will just up the allocation to Cranburgundy instead.

The irony is that quite a bit of their wine ends up in the secondary market, at $500 a bottle. So the issue with this kind of list for a wine of that sort is that over time, the insiders start to just linger to flip their wine, but only keep one or two bottles to drink. Once you are in that mode, as a winery, how do you figure out which people are really cellaring and keeping the wine, to drink? Presumably if you could cull out the ones who are simply abusing the list for a quick doubling of their money, you would. But a cull that drops people who are loyal customers would seem rude...

< Message edited by KPB -- 2/26/2019 7:27:21 AM >

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/26/2019 10:21:02 AM

blarmston

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The primary reason that I am cutting my 2017 purchases by 95% isn't due to the fires, but the two week long heat spike directly before and after Labor Day. I may be mistaken, but there was something like multiple consecutive days of 100+ degrees, and the evenings didn't cool down enough to give the vines a chance to "recharge".

I went big on the 2016's, so if I need to skip a vintage and look forward to some potentially epic 2018's, I am okay with that. My AMEX will be as well..

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 13

RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/26/2019 10:30:04 AM

CranBurgundy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KPB

Even if I was number 2 right now, somehow they will just up the allocation to Cranburgundy instead.

CranBurgundy - with a capital "B".

And remember who swapped you a bottle as a temporary fix to quell your MacDonald jones.

Let's not mention the snafu with the trade that day though. No need to tell the good folks of CellarTracker how absent minded I am some days.

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Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to KPB)

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/26/2019 10:50:43 AM

KPB

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In a nutshell, the guy has been drinking so much MacDonald cab that it has begun to impact his short-term memory... cases and cases of the stuff...

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/26/2019 11:48:46 AM

CranBurgundy

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< Message edited by CranBurgundy -- 2/26/2019 11:49:13 AM >

_____________________________

Purple Drankin' Cretin.

Vote NO on Proposition S1ct1516 "BAN the CRAN!" this Election Day.

“Let it be recorded: henceforth, December 15 shall be known as 'The Day of Dennis'.” - Prof. Ken "KPB" Birman, 12/17/23

(in reply to KPB)

Post #: 16

RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 2/26/2019 2:03:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blarmston

The primary reason that I am cutting my 2017 purchases by 95% isn't due to the fires, but the two week long heat spike directly before and after Labor Day. I may be mistaken, but there was something like multiple consecutive days of 100+ degrees, and the evenings didn't cool down enough to give the vines a chance to "recharge".

I went big on the 2016's, so if I need to skip a vintage and look forward to some potentially epic 2018's, I am okay with that. My AMEX will be as well..

THIS
I wasn't excited about the vintage WAY before the fires.

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"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

(in reply to blarmston)

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 10/25/2019 10:54:01 AM

Chip Merlot

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I can't believe this thread was 8 months ago, it seems like only yesterday. Any new theories/info/guesses on the 2017 Napa vintage? Has anyone had a chance to taste some samples, perhaps even barrel samples of the higher-caliber labels? I've seen some low-rent stuff showing up on the shelves but they don't necessarily tell you much....

(in reply to S1)

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 10/25/2019 5:08:15 PM

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The people selling the wines are saying positive things.

I will be avoiding most (or at least cutting back).

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(in reply to Chip Merlot)

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 10/25/2019 5:34:44 PM

KPB

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The 2017 Beta Montecillo cabernet, and Vare cabernet, were exceptional wines, even better than 2013! But Montecillo is a high altitude vineyard that gets moist air and breezes off the ocean, so perhaps they have a unique situation. I did ask about 2017 elsewhere during my last visit, but nobody was pouring them.

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 10/26/2019 3:59:01 AM

khmark7

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I ordered my usual allotment of Carlisle 2017 wines....so i guess i will find out in the upcoming years if that was a good vs bad idea.

As for Bordeaux, i will attend the UGC tasting in Chicago before i purchase, mostly waiting because i have no more room (or need) for additional Bordeaux at the moment. TBD.

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 10/26/2019 7:28:05 AM

wdcwineguys

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chip Merlot

I can't believe this thread was 8 months ago, it seems like only yesterday. Any new theories/info/guesses on the 2017 Napa vintage? Has anyone had a chance to taste some samples, perhaps even barrel samples of the higher-caliber labels? I've seen some low-rent stuff showing up on the shelves but they don't necessarily tell you much....

I’ve had a few 2017 Sauvignon Blancs and they have been good. For reds, I recently had the 2017 La Pelle. It’s good. Nice fruit and complexity.
I have M. Etain coming from my allocation order, but haven’t tried it.

I hadn’t had enough of the reds yet to make my own determination. There are likely a few labels I’ll skip for 2017.

Interestingly enough, I just got some 2017 reds from Paso. The winemaker noted a challenging vintage and recommended a drink now versus hold.

(in reply to Chip Merlot)

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 10/26/2019 7:54:28 AM

brettlaurvick

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I've purchased a handful of 2017's:
(4) Realm The Bard
(2) Realm The Tempest
(3) William & Mary
(3) Myriad Napa
(3) Rivers-Marie
Early CT reviews on these wines are all positive, but compared to recent vintages they are going to be behind. I doubt I will spend any more on 2017 except for Scarecrow.
Newer to most of these lists above, my logic was I wanted to make sure I purchased to position myself for 2018 and 2019.

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 10/30/2019 5:11:43 PM

Wine Gopher

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Out of curiosity after reading this thread I opened a 2017 Chappellet Signature Cab. I typically give these a few years in my cellar to resolve some of the tannic structure. The Chappellet was a bit less tannic than I expected and drank well. No smoke. It is fruit-forward but no more than any typical young Napa cab with maybe just a slight hint of heat on the finish but not objectionable and moreso noticed (or imagined) because I was looking for it. It reminds me of a less plush Oakville AVA wine and I would from my experience I expect it will take on a little more weight and round out with a year or two of age. I'm not overly surprised by the result because from my experience wines from Napa mountain ranges tend to do better in hot vintages because it is doesn't get as hot at higher elevations during the day. For that matter, as long as they are above the fog line they often do better on cold vintages as well although there can be more variance on that.

(in reply to brettlaurvick)

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 11/2/2019 9:33:26 AM

Joe the Critic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wine Grove

I believe 2017 was also a pretty down year for Bordeaux as well, after a nice 3 year run. Lot of frost killed like 50% of their early season growth, particularly on the Right bank.

The problem with 2017 Bordeaux was not about the quality, as I understand, but rather the pricing. The producers had just jacked up their prices for the successful 2015 and 2016 vintages, just as they did in 2009/2010. 2017 Bordeaux was less age-worthy than the two preceding vintages; however, due to the low volumes, producers were unwilling to cut prices from the 2016 levels. The result was an over-priced vintage that didn't sell en primeur. This was really an artifact of the negociant system used in Bordeaux, where sought-after producers can force middlemen to pay prices that bear little relationship to the market. Essentially they were saying to the negociants, "You made good money on our terrific 2016s, so now you must subsidize us by over-paying for our 2017s." The negociants must play along if they wish to keep their allocations for future vintages. As consumers, it would make perfect sense to buy 2017 Bordeaux if they were priced appropriately, since the quality was generally good and the wines will be ready to drink before the 2016s. However, importers and retailers here in the U.S. avoided the 2017s, so consumers are unlikely to find many good values there.

As for 2017 in California, the majority of the fruit had already been picked in Napa before the wildfires, so smoke taint is not an issue for those wines. (I have not heard any examples of smoke affecting the must in fermentation tanks.) However, as others have pointed out, weather was exceptionally hot for several weeks leading up to the harvest, which may well have affected the quality.

I personally know one small producer who buys grapes from the Mount Veeder area. In 2017 they were not able to pick their grapes until after the fires, and the grapes were smoke-tainted. They decided to sell the wine off in bulk rather than bottle it under their own label. Unfortunately not every producer is as ethical; I once made the mistake of buying a 2008 Sonoma Coast Pinot from Alexander Valley that was tainted and barely drinkable. I'll never buy anything from that producer again.

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RE: More 2017 Napa vintage news - 11/2/2019 10:00:21 AM

DoubleD1969

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The good news about getting old and being north of 50 is you don’t have to worry about pricing for the latest vintage. I remember all the complaints for the 2000-2005 vintages.

(in reply to Joe the Critic)

Post #: 26