Sweet white wine made from red grapes

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Sweet white wine made from red grapes - 7/31/2023 7:14:34 AM

Echinosum

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From: Buckinghamshire, UK
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I was very surprised yesterday to open a sweet straw wine made from red grapes, in the style of Recioto de Valpolicella, and find it was a white wine. The grape variety was Blaufrankisch (alias Kékfrankos, Limburger, Frankovka), which is a deep-coloured variety, used to make "Bull's Blood" for example. I am not aware of it being used to make white wine otherwise.

Has anyone come across anything else like this, or is it a one-off?

It was exceedingly delicious.

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RE: Sweet white wine made from red grapes - 7/31/2023 7:21:55 AM

DoubleD1969

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From: New Jersey
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Niagara ice wines are sometimes made with Cab Franc. Whether it’s red grapes or white, the juice is clear. The color is just from the contact with the skins and for how long.

(in reply to Echinosum)

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RE: Sweet white wine made from red grapes - 8/2/2023 8:31:21 AM

Pontac

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From: London, UK
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As @DoubleD1969 says almost all grapes have clear juice and red wines get their colour from their skins which are fermented with the juice.

White wines made from red/black grapes aren't unusual - perhaps the best known example is Champagne which is usually made from a blend of the black Pinot Noir and black Pinot Meunier and white Chardonnay, the grapes being pressed before fermentation and the skins discarded.

But I think your wine is unusual, being a black grape being dried for a white wine. Where did you get it?

< Message edited by Pontac -- 8/2/2023 8:33:58 AM >

(in reply to DoubleD1969)

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RE: Sweet white wine made from red grapes - 8/2/2023 11:30:36 AM

Echinosum

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From: Buckinghamshire, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pontac
As @DoubleD1969 says almost all grapes have clear juice and red wines get their colour from their skins which are fermented with the juice.

White wines made from red/black grapes aren't unusual - perhaps the best known example is Champagne which is usually made from a blend of the black Pinot Noir and black Pinot Meunier and white Chardonnay, the grapes being pressed before fermentation and the skins discarded.

But I think your wine is unusual, being a black grape being dried for a white wine. Where did you get it?

Yes, I'm well aware of blanc de noirs, etc. But I'd never heard of this for a sweet wine.

I was perhaps a bit surprised that if you pressed a semi-dried grape, given you might have to press harder than usual, that you could do that without getting any colour from the skin. Or that you might press gently and not try to get everything from it, given that the juice is so reduced.

It's a Czech wine and was bought locally in Czech Rep. My wife is Czech. It came in a 200ml bottle, and per ml, was by far the most expensive Czech wine I have had. There are small quantities of very good wine from Czech, and actually very reasonably priced by international standards. Just not very easy for me to take much home on the plane.

(in reply to Pontac)

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RE: Sweet white wine made from red grapes - 8/3/2023 3:19:02 AM

Pontac

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From: London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum

I was perhaps a bit surprised that if you pressed a semi-dried grape, given you might have to press harder than usual, that you could do that without getting any colour from the skin.

Yes, those Cabernet Franc & cabernet Sauvignon ice wines from Ontario have a definite pinkish colouring as a result of pressing an ice hard berry.

I don't know about Blaufrankish but some black grape lose colour; Pinot Noir is the example I know, which is why Champagne allow pink fizzes to get their colour from blending in red Pinot Noir still wines. Too often making a Champagne from a traditionally made pink wine results in a white wine, or a wine with variable colour.

Is there a winery website and, if so, does that explain it?

(in reply to Echinosum)

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RE: Sweet white wine made from red grapes - 8/3/2023 5:56:15 AM

Echinosum

Posts: 604
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From: Buckinghamshire, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pontac

quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum
I was perhaps a bit surprised that if you pressed a semi-dried grape, given you might have to press harder than usual, that you could do that without getting any colour from the skin.

Yes, those Cabernet Franc & cabernet Sauvignon ice wines from Ontario have a definite pinkish colouring as a result of pressing an ice hard berry.

I don't know about Blaufrankish but some black grape lose colour; Pinot Noir is the example I know, which is why Champagne allow pink fizzes to get their colour from blending in red Pinot Noir still wines. Too often making a Champagne from a traditionally made pink wine results in a white wine, or a wine with variable colour.

Is there a winery website and, if so, does that explain it?

There is a website. It has no general notes on the wine types they sell. But you can find notes (in Czech only) on the individual wines they sell in their e-shop. This specific wine is still for sale, though I got it some years ago now, and kept it for an occasion to drink. In technical data, it says Colour: red, rather unhelpfully. The wine notes, google-translated from Czech, say this.

quote:

Wine made from grapes stored before processing on straw or reeds or hung in a ventilated area for at least 3 months. First, it is necessary to select the best grapes of the variety and let them ripen on the bush until autumn. The grapes are carefully picked and transported in crates to the place for ripening, where any rotten berries are checked, turned over and cut out. Dried and healthy grapes, resembling raisins, are pressed slowly. For a small amount of raw material, everything is traditionally done by hand. The pulp content of these grapes is approx. 15 - 20% (the average pulp content of classic wine is 75 - 80%, for comparison). The resulting must is fermented with special yeast and further matured. We recommend: for sweet dishes, desserts, pastries, goose liver with honey.

You wouldn't guess it was blanc de noir from these notes, apart perhaps from the final comments on what to drink it with.

They also have some Cabernet Sauvignon both as a straw wine and an ice wine. Here the winery notes are more helpful, and make clear that the wines are light red in colour and have flavours like strawberry jam. So it seems it was a decision on the Frankovka not to do that. I would normally say avoid Czech Cab Sauv, it's not really the most suitable grape for the conditions, so perhaps that's why they use it for these sweeties.

They also have a straw wine from Riesling.

All of these special sweet wines are sold at 400 KC for 200ml bottles, which is like $18/£14. So not cheap, but fair value in comparison to what you might pay from Germany.

(in reply to Pontac)

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RE: Sweet white wine made from red grapes - 8/4/2023 12:13:02 AM

forceberry

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Joined: 8/4/2017
From: Finland
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I wish we had some kind of tool that could easily tell us is these kinds of wines existed!

Oh, but that reminds me:

Here are all the white sweet Pinot Noir wines listed in Cellartracker. You can check what kinds of results you get for other varieties just by changing the variety name in the url.
https://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?Type=White+-+Sweet%2FDessert&Varietal=Pinot+Noir&iUserOverride=0&fInStock=0&Table=List

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Check my blog and join me in my search for rare and unknown grape varieties and wine styles!
My CT profile

(in reply to Echinosum)

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