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Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/19/2023 7:10:02 PM   
MichiganDaniel

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 11/3/2022
Status: offline 		I mean, come on. How is this legit?
Post #: 1
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/19/2023 7:46:15 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3601
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		I can see vintage port going the distance.

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 2
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/19/2023 8:39:01 PM   
ericindc

 

Posts: 2084
Joined: 7/6/2012
From: District of Columbia
Status: offline 		Depending on how you like it. I mean I've had tons of old barolo and some 60s burgs that have a window that large not to mention certain newer vintges (cough.. 2005). Or consider some of the '86 Bordeaux, they'll be drinking fine in 2086 with the Mouton Rothschild having a window out to 2186, lol.

Some people like them younger, some in that early maturity, and then full maturity. I'm convinced that burgundy for instance has a second phase of full maturity where you see more brown sugar and toffee notes dominate (40+yrs). I for one am always chasing that particular dragon.



_____________________________

-Eric
Just waiting for my Grand Cru to age.

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 3
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/19/2023 8:53:31 PM   
Eduardo787

 

Posts: 1569
Joined: 1/14/2020
From: Monterrey Mexico
Status: offline 		Drink before 2086 or you are bust !

_____________________________

I can´t be happier than drinkling wine with my friends

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 4
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/20/2023 4:10:03 AM   
Echinosum

 

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganDaniel

I mean, come on. How is this legit?

Could make sense for a vintage Madeira or something like that.

Or maybe it's a non-vintage wine, where the public drinking window info is nonsense and you are supposed to know to ignore it.

Or maybe it is just the problem with the crowd-sourcing approach to data on CT. If not many users have made estimates, (eg only 1), and it's nonsense, then the public average will be nonsense. Should be rectified as more users put in their own, more sensible, estimates. Or, if not many people own it, then it doesn't matter very much.

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 5
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/20/2023 4:18:17 AM   
S1

 

Posts: 14826
Joined: 11/12/2011
From: Wandering between Coastal SC and South FL
Status: offline 		Yes
Anyone who has dined at the steakhouse in Tampa which must not be named can attest.

_____________________________

Tous les chemins mènent à la Bourgogne!
"One not only drinks wine, one smells it, observes it, tastes it, sips it and -- one talks about it!" (in memory of drycab)

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 6
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/20/2023 8:36:36 AM   
grizzlymarmot

 

Posts: 342
Status: offline 		This is great marketing. Right now, you can sell to the guy who wants a bottle tonight. Right now, you can sell to the wine snob who thinks he can keep it for more than 20 years. The store keeper is still fine with it if it does not sell now, since even it sits on the shelf for 30 years, someone will thinks it's fine.

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 7
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/21/2023 9:50:40 AM   
mclancy10006

 

Posts: 4510
Joined: 3/19/2007
From: Cape Cod, MA & Bellevue, WA
Status: offline 		As noted could believe it for fortified wine no problem and a Barolo or two. A few Rioja Gran Reserva wines might to that long as well.

Mark

< Message edited by mclancy10006 -- 10/21/2023 9:51:10 AM >

(in reply to grizzlymarmot)
Post #: 8
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/21/2023 10:20:38 AM   
Ibetian

 

Posts: 3578
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Sarasota, FL and the Berkshires
Status: offline 		If I open this wine in 2084 and it’s gone bad, I’ll be upset. But not too upset. After all, I’ll have lived to 131…

_____________________________

“I was a glutton at the banquet and spilt the finest wine,” Mick Jagger, Wandering Spirit

(in reply to mclancy10006)
Post #: 9
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/21/2023 11:59:35 AM   
KPB

 

Posts: 4661
Joined: 11/25/2012
From: Ithaca, New York
Status: offline 		Vintage port? The 1970 vintage is nearing the tail of its window but the best wines are still excellent and many of those will drink well for another 25 years...

_____________________________

Ken Birman
The Professor of Brettology

(in reply to Ibetian)
Post #: 10
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/21/2023 2:45:28 PM   
mclancy10006

 

Posts: 4510
Joined: 3/19/2007
From: Cape Cod, MA & Bellevue, WA
Status: offline 		How about 1987 to 2036?

https://www.cellartracker.com/w?1248446

(in reply to KPB)
Post #: 11
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 10/22/2023 9:05:32 AM   
sastewart

 

Posts: 600
Joined: 8/16/2012
From: Greater Nashville
Status: offline 		We had a 1989 Lynch Bages last week that was one of the best wines I have ever had. Parker posted a note in 2011 saying "Powerful and rich with some tannins still to shed at age 22, it is still a young adolescent in terms of its evolution and will benefit from another 4-5 years of cellaring. It should prove to be a 50 year wine. (drink 2015-2065)" I'm not sure how the wine would be drinking in 2065 but I'd be shocked if it wasn't still fabulous ten years from now.

(in reply to mclancy10006)
Post #: 12
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/13/2024 12:32:27 PM   
mutwonmax

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 1/27/2024
Status: offline 		There are definately some Riesling Beerenauslesen which can hold out for more than a hundred years.. Rieslings that old are also on auction every once in a while..

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 13
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/13/2024 2:12:19 PM   
Blue Shorts

 

Posts: 2780
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz
Status: offline
quote:

I mean, come on. How is this legit?


Is that drinking window in an advertisement or just a Cellartracker user that ran amuck?

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 14
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/15/2024 12:52:53 PM   
thesternowl

 

Posts: 1782
Joined: 2/5/2011
From: Omaha, NE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganDaniel

I mean, come on. How is this legit?


IMO, a drinking window of 2023-2085 is a lot more believable than the majority of the drinking windows assigned to most of the wine in my cellar (which is laughably short).

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 15
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/15/2024 1:22:36 PM   
DoubleD1969

 

Posts: 3601
Joined: 8/19/2008
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sastewart

We had a 1989 Lynch Bages last week that was one of the best wines I have ever had. Parker posted a note in 2011 saying "Powerful and rich with some tannins still to shed at age 22, it is still a young adolescent in terms of its evolution and will benefit from another 4-5 years of cellaring. It should prove to be a 50 year wine. (drink 2015-2065)" I'm not sure how the wine would be drinking in 2065 but I'd be shocked if it wasn't still fabulous ten years from now.

A bunch of use had this wine in 2019, and it was superb. Why wait till 2065 to be disappointed?

(in reply to sastewart)
Post #: 16
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/17/2024 2:15:05 PM   
sastewart

 

Posts: 600
Joined: 8/16/2012
From: Greater Nashville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969


quote:

ORIGINAL: sastewart

We had a 1989 Lynch Bages last week that was one of the best wines I have ever had. Parker posted a note in 2011 saying "Powerful and rich with some tannins still to shed at age 22, it is still a young adolescent in terms of its evolution and will benefit from another 4-5 years of cellaring. It should prove to be a 50 year wine. (drink 2015-2065)" I'm not sure how the wine would be drinking in 2065 but I'd be shocked if it wasn't still fabulous ten years from now.

A bunch of use had this wine in 2019, and it was superb. Why wait till 2065 to be disappointed?

I wouldn't wait until 2065 either. This was my last bottle but if I had any more I'd hang on to it for a few years!

(in reply to DoubleD1969)
Post #: 17
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/18/2024 9:56:55 AM   
xyc

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 1/15/2024
Status: offline 		Always make predictions that cannot be proven wrong.

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 18
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/18/2024 12:37:46 PM   
Ibetian

 

Posts: 3578
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Sarasota, FL and the Berkshires
Status: offline 		A few years ago, I had a 1928 Gruaud Larose at a certain steak house in Tampa. So kept at cool temps, some wines can be excellent after nearly a century.

_____________________________

“I was a glutton at the banquet and spilt the finest wine,” Mick Jagger, Wandering Spirit

(in reply to xyc)
Post #: 19
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/20/2024 1:49:57 PM   
MichiganDaniel

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 11/3/2022
Status: offline 		For those curious, here is the wine that inspired the OG post. But the drinking window was from a professional review, not CT users.

https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=3912102&searchId=441DE993%23selected%253DW3912102_1_K58ed424929b5c8d156235a558cdfd5d1

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 20
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/20/2024 2:54:00 PM   
Blue Shorts

 

Posts: 2780
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Santa Cruz
Status: offline 		Best from 2025 through 2033." The Wine Spectator,

Anyone that gives a drinking window of 62 years, without said winery having a track record for making wines that last that long, is bogus in my book.

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 21
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/20/2024 7:12:45 PM   
Claymonster

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 1/18/2023
From: Claymont, DE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganDaniel

For those curious, here is the wine that inspired the OG post. But the drinking window was from a professional review, not CT users.

https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=3912102&searchId=441DE993%23selected%253DW3912102_1_K58ed424929b5c8d156235a558cdfd5d1


John Gilman? He’s known for looooong windows, especially on Riojas.

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 22
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/21/2024 3:44:27 AM   
Echinosum

 

Posts: 604
Joined: 1/28/2021
From: Buckinghamshire, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blue Shorts

Best from 2025 through 2033." The Wine Spectator,

Anyone that gives a drinking window of 62 years, without said winery having a track record for making wines that last that long, is bogus in my book.

There are recent good tasting notes on the 1969 and 1970 Ardanza on CT. And apparently several more cases of the 1970 in CT-users' cellars, if we believe that. So it seems to have some kind of a record of lasting at least 55 years. But looking through various notes on various other older vintages with tasting notes in the 30-40 year old range, I think it is a bit of a risk even keeping it that long. I suspect what the Wine Spectator says is probably nearer what the producer had in mind when making this wine, and many might think it is "best" in that range.

It would never have occurred to me to cellar Ardanza for a very long time. But I decided I didn't like Ardanza a long time ago. I see that today it is nearer in price to the GR 904 that I do regularly drink from La Rioja Alta, than it used to be, so perhaps it is better these days. The 904 certainly is intended for longer aging. And there are larger stocks of that in CT-users cellars back to 1964, then odd bottles of older years, even though it is a smaller production wine.

_____________________________

A discriminating palate can be a curse.

(in reply to Blue Shorts)
Post #: 23
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/21/2024 4:24:26 AM   
Paul852

 

Posts: 2655
Joined: 6/27/2018
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum
There are recent good tasting notes on the 1969 and 1970 Ardanza on CT. And apparently several more cases of the 1970 in CT-users' cellars, if we believe that.

I really don't think you can. There are about 912,000 registered users on CT. Only about 270,000 have had any interaction with the site in the last 12 months. Of the top 100 users by holdings, 23, holding about 400,000 bottles between them, haven't been seen for over a year (in many cases for over 5 years).

< Message edited by Paul852 -- 2/21/2024 4:39:21 AM >

(in reply to Echinosum)
Post #: 24
RE: Drinking window 2023-2085 - 2/21/2024 11:41:41 AM   
mutwonmax

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 1/27/2024
Status: offline 		I too have the impression that with many wine offers, a long drinking window seems to be a welcomed marketing benefit. It's definately convinced me more than a couple of times to buy a few bottles extra. Interestingly enough I'm under the impression that the spanish bodegas as well as other european wineries are fairly reluctant to make extensive statements in this regard. For example, La Rioja Alta doesnt even provide for a drinking window in its technical sheet for the Ardanza. On the other hand, I think quite a few online shops know that they'll increase their revenue by inciting costumers to buy on hold..

My gut feeling tells me that the Ardanza will be fine for at least 20 years or so. I had a few bottles of the Ardanza 2008 anniversary edition, and each bottle is as good as the first, which I drank around 2018. I've also seeen lesser Reservas improving over 15 years or so, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Ardanza could last longer. Its still less than half the prize of a 904 here in Europe, but its definately a really good Rioja for the prize, so I wouldn't be surprised by a strong aging potential. That said 60 years seemes a bit much, indeed.
However, I cant say I have any experience with really old Riojas. Some Bordeaux (and not necessarily only expensive ones), in my opinion, enter a sort of second stage of taste after a certain time, where they loose of quite a bit of their primary taste and become a lot more integrated and earthy..
Can anybody add to that, pls? What can you expect from a Rioja with aging potential after say 20 to 30 years?

< Message edited by mutwonmax -- 2/22/2024 6:00:39 AM >

(in reply to MichiganDaniel)
Post #: 25
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