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RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/1/2024 10:06:32 PM   
recotte

 

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Joined: 1/19/2011
Status: offline 		My general rule of thumb is that for steaks 2+ inches thick or otherwise with a lot of mass (tomahawks, thick porterhouses*, those 28 oz ribeyes I just got during BerserkerDays), I will sous vide first, then grill, as the time it takes to get a good sear will not cook to a medium rare all the way to the center. For something like a New York strip, though, and certainly not a cut as thin as a flank or skirt steak, on a blazing hot charcoal grill, SV to me seems like an unnecessary extra step. With room temp Flannery 12 oz NY strips, 4 minutes on the first side, 3 minutes on the second side, 5 minutes to rest = consistent perfection.

If I was doing the searing indoors in a cast iron pan, I'd be more inclined to do SV for the smaller cuts, just to reduce the amount of time in the pan and minimize the amount of smoke produced. I literally have to disable my smoke alarms before searing indoors. Fortunately, it's a rare day that I can't grill outdoors where I live.

edit: I'll also concede that there's a preference thing at play here: doing SV then sear definitely ensures that the steak is edge-to-edge medium rare, with just the outside seared, whereas doing the entire process on a grill/oven results in the bullseye, where there's that outside ring of meat that is more well-done. Probably just because it's "what I'm used to," I prefer the bullseye, with the gradation of textures that comes with it. Personal preference, to be sure.


* If I'm having fun with a really thick porterhouse, making it Florentine style, searing both sides, then standing it on the bone obviates the need for SV. Now, if only I had a local source for Chianina....


< Message edited by recotte -- 3/1/2024 10:13:36 PM >

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RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/2/2024 3:30:54 AM   
daviladc

 

Posts: 1710
Joined: 3/3/2019
From: Myrtle Beach SC
Status: online 		Recotte,

You are 100% spot on about steak type and thickness.

On the topic of the Fiorentina, SV would be useless and the SEER preferential.

Also Dry Aged steaks shouldn't be cooked SV. Too much fat would be rendered from meat that has already had its moisture reduced during the aging process.

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Post #: 32
RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/2/2024 8:22:48 AM   
sastewart

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daviladc

quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyCO


quote:

ORIGINAL: sastewart

I Sous Vide my steaks for 2.5 hours at 128 degrees then sear mine for 30 seconds a side. Perfect every time.


Is there some textural advantage to doing this other than cooking to a perfect temperature? It takes longer for sure. I guess I’ll just need to try it sometime.


The meat is more tender because fat renders at 128° and the longer it's at 128° the more it will render. Compared to direct heat cooking, the outside (gray area) is at 140 to get the center to be 128. That is what I'm trying to show with my picture above showing the bullseye. Cooking that way, the center is at 128° for only a short period of time and the fat never renders, never allowing the meat fibers to soften.

Exactly! Consistently tender from edge to edge.

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Post #: 33
RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/2/2024 8:43:47 AM   
wine247365

 

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From: OC, CA
Status: offline 		I was watching a BBQ competition show the other day and a number of teams used propane burners for searing purposes and to more quickly carmelize a sauce or marinate on top of the meat. They can also be used to quick start any wood or charcoal fire. At full blast, I think the temp can get to 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit so looked like it would be great at getting a fast sear. I went ahead and bought one as they’re ~25, so quite inexpensive. Have any of you used one?

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RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/3/2024 9:31:52 AM   
markandsusanw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum

quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyCO

Zero chance. My Ooni gets to 950 degrees F and if I wanted could cook a steak in it but don’t need to cook a steak that hot. Nor am I interested in a $3500 anything. Seems just another high priced gimmick.

I have discovered that I want the interior of my steak to get to 58C. Not 55C, that's too uncooked and tough and bloody for me. Not 61C, that's overcooked. Achieving that on a grill or in a frying pan is a skill that is beyond me. I learned that number from cooking steak sous-vide at various temperatures. And realising how difficult it would be for me to have the judgement to cook it just right like that is why I will continue to cook my steak sous-vide, and sear it in the pan after.

Even those of you who would like their interior steak to be cooked to a lower or higher temperature than I like it, you have the same issue. It's very difficult to cook it to just that right temperature on a grill or pan. It's a difficult judgement when it will be just right. And probably even more difficult on a very high temperature grill or pan, as it will cook much faster and probably now the difference between undercooked and overcooked in the middle is a very small number of seconds.

I suspect that if I could sear my sous-vide cooked steak at a very high temperature and very briefly, that would be good. But if I was to get some very high temperature device, my priority would be a pizza oven. I make pizza regularly, but eat steak on only a handful of occasions in the year.

My sous-vide technique is something I've not read in a book - I use multiple temperatures. I put steak in 56 C and leave it for 4-8 hours, and then turn it up to 58 C for just the last hour. Because I want the tenderisation that comes from a more extended period of being at temperature. But not the kind of over-tenderisation that comes from an extended period at 58 C. While also wanting the degree of done-ness that comes from the interior being at 58C. That is also my technique with leg of lamb, haunch of venison, etc. Venison - at least from the small kinds of deer we get locally - is very tender and turns to paste remarkably quickly with any prolonged time at just 58C. I've also had that with leg of lamb. But I might give that nearer 2 hours at 58 to finish it off.


I love to cook and am a big sous vide fan. I've found it works best for things that cook really quickly and require precise temperature (fish, steak, some egg dishes) and things that cook really slowly (e.g. short ribs). I do almost all my steaks sous vide and then sear in a cast iron pan with Ghee. I also have an Ooni pizza oven. We got the new electric, indoor version and if you have the counter space it's great, in that it's easy to clean up, takes little prep or clean up and can be ready to go in 10 minutes, plus reliably cooks a homemade pie in 3-4 minutes. Haven't used it for anything else, and it's definitely a splurge, but it's fairly remarkable the granular control it has (upper/lower heating elements, heats to 850 in 15 minutes or so).

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Post #: 35
RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/3/2024 12:49:13 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
Status: offline 		Ok, I trust all of you so I’m going to get a couple 2.5” Filet Mignons from Whole Foods this weekend a Sous Vide them up. Will let everyone know how it goes. Sure it will be great

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Post #: 36
RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/3/2024 1:13:16 PM   
daviladc

 

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From: Myrtle Beach SC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyCO

Ok, I trust all of you so I’m going to get a couple 2.5” Filet Mignons from Whole Foods this weekend a Sous Vide them up. Will let everyone know how it goes. Sure it will be great



Here are a few tips from the chef I've learned and watched him perfect in the restaurant.

Get water to correct temp before cooking the meat and cook from room temp.

Put seasoning in the bag while cooking.


SV cooking time is better if longer than recommend and never less than suggested time as the fat doesn't have time to render

Do NOT salt when you sear as it causes moisture to escape therefore steaming the meat. This is mainly because the salt doesn't allow for the meat to come in contact with the cast iron. (PS: This is true even if you don't SV steak. Better to dry brine if not cooking via SV)

Dry the steak. Bone dry before searing!

Use avocado oil in the pan. Or any other high smoke point oil. Or oil the meat and use a sear station on your grill.


Use a steak weight to force contact with the cast iron.

No need to rest the steak after searing.


< Message edited by daviladc -- 3/3/2024 1:25:24 PM >

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RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/3/2024 4:20:51 PM   
Hollowine

 

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Joined: 7/25/2008
From: Hood River, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: recotte

I am not the least bit opposed to innovation in cooking. That said, for me, cooking, including and perhaps especially grilling, is a hobby, something I derive pleasure from, both the art and action of the activity and the end result. Not to mention the social aspect of standing around a grill flipping burgers and drinking beer with friends. This device takes that away. I'm no longer cooking, I'm pushing buttons.

Assuming this thing actually works as advertised, I suppose it's great for people who just want to push the buttons and have their food. Not my jam.



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Post #: 38
RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/4/2024 1:02:07 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

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Joined: 9/5/2017
From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
Status: offline 		Thanks for the tips!! Makes sense.

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Post #: 39
RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/5/2024 11:52:48 AM   
markandsusanw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WineGuyCO

Ok, I trust all of you so I’m going to get a couple 2.5” Filet Mignons from Whole Foods this weekend a Sous Vide them up. Will let everyone know how it goes. Sure it will be great


We make all our filets this way now, and feel confident that, if you do it right, you won't be disappointed in either the final product, or the ease and consistency of the method. I usually season my steaks and then vacuum seal them, and sous vide for at least 3 hours, but as many as 5-6 is fine. I prefer 124-125 degrees for a final medium-rare finish. And, honestly, you can sous vide from frozen--just takes a little longer--so steak temp really isn't important, and as long as the water gets to temp before the steak is in the bacteria danger zone, you're good. (I would not let the meat come to "room temp" before cooking, because that is the bacteria danger zone, and why risk it for zero cooking advantage?) It is important to cook each steak in a separate sealed bag, with room for water to move around all sides.

I've tried a lot of complex additions to the steaks, pre-sous vide, as well as not seasoning them at all, and honestly, they're good either way. A little pat of compound butter sealed in there with the steak is a nice touch, but other than that just salt and pepper seem to be the most important, though a garlic steak seasoning blend is also good. But depending on the quality of your steak, I've also sous vided already vac-sealed steaks from frozen with no seasoning, and had them turn out great with just a sprinkle of sea salt flakes (Malden) after searing.

Take the steak out of the sous vide, pat dry (save any liquid in the bag), and sear in a ripping hot pan, or on the grill, until you've got the desired crust. If you want it very dark on the outside, might want to start your sous vide temp down a degree or two, to give more interior latitude for a longer sear. I mentioned it before, but I use ghee (clarified butter) to sear my steaks, and you can give the side not searing a little bath with the hot butter for extra flavor, too. Especially good on a filet. (This is what restaurants do. The amount of butter and ghee they cook with...Oy vey)

If you're doing the searing in cast iron, I finish by discarding any excess ghee and using the collected juices (from the sous vide bags) to deglaze pan and make a quick au jus. A little thyme, tablespoon or so of Worcestershire and/or dijon, and a dollop of wine swirled for 30 seconds in the hot pan is all it takes. (If you don't have enough liquid from the steaks, a splash of beef broth also works.)

My dream is to someday have a restaurant caliber salamander (intense heat, ceramic broiler) to sear my steaks with. Was tempted by The Beefer grill there for a while, but they stopped selling them, so glad I never took the pricey plunge.

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RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/6/2024 4:28:23 AM   
RedRedMoreRed

 

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From: Orlando, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: markandsusanw

My dream is to someday have a restaurant caliber salamander (intense heat, ceramic broiler) to sear my steaks with. Was tempted by The Beefer grill there for a while, but they stopped selling them, so glad I never took the pricey plunge.


So you must be my brother from another mother. My oven broiler is on a thermostat, so it cycles on and off and drives me absolutely nuts. Truth is someone could steal my broiler elements and I'd likely not notice for several years.

BUT, I've been wondering if an Ooni Pizza oven would do the trick at a reasonable price. I'm sure it would not be quite the same, but I would think it would work really well as a substitute salamander. Anyone have an Ooni and care to share their thoughts?

< Message edited by RedRedMoreRed -- 3/6/2024 4:29:34 AM >

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RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/6/2024 4:35:39 AM   
daviladc

 

Posts: 1710
Joined: 3/3/2019
From: Myrtle Beach SC
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedRedMoreRed

quote:

ORIGINAL: markandsusanw

My dream is to someday have a restaurant caliber salamander (intense heat, ceramic broiler) to sear my steaks with. Was tempted by The Beefer grill there for a while, but they stopped selling them, so glad I never took the pricey plunge.


So you must be my brother from another mother. My oven broiler is on a thermostat, so it cycles on and off and drives me absolutely nuts. Truth is someone could steal my broiler elements and I'd likely not notice for several years.

BUT, I've been wondering if an Ooni Pizza oven would do the trick at a reasonable price. I'm sure it would not be quite the same, but I would think it would work really well as a substitute salamander. Anyone have an Ooni and care to share their thoughts?


Yes, the gas insert on the Ooni will get you close to 1000°F. Wood will do the same.

I'm

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RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/6/2024 3:25:14 PM   
WineGuyCO

 

Posts: 3802
Joined: 9/5/2017
From: Living at 7200 ft. in Monument CO
Status: offline 		I have an Ooni Koda 12 gas pizza oven and have thought about using it for this but grease splattering all over the inside of the oven has stopped me. The pizza stone is removable but Cleaning inside the oven wouldn’t be easy. Also would it smoke after using it like this? I’ll let somebody else be the guinea pig on this one.

There are Ooni recipes for doing this on their website & Youtube videos of folks doing this but I haven’t looked at any of them yet.

< Message edited by WineGuyCO -- 3/6/2024 3:30:12 PM >

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Post #: 43
RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/7/2024 4:25:47 AM   
Echinosum

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: markandsusanw
My dream is to someday have a restaurant caliber salamander...

I think you probably have to go to China for that. The Chinese giant salamander is critically endangered, which is directly related to being tasty. But it is now raised in farms. Various domestic animal origin species are now uncommon in the wild, so perhaps that makes it OK to eat it. Like frogs legs, and much other reptile/amphibian/bird that is eaten, it tastes rather like chicken.

But many species of salamander, especially smaller ones, are highly poisonous, which has probably evolved to discourage predators from eating them. So probably not best to go out salamander hunting for a meal.

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RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/11/2024 9:46:54 AM   
recotte

 

Posts: 6873
Joined: 1/19/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Echinosum

quote:

ORIGINAL: markandsusanw
My dream is to someday have a restaurant caliber salamander...

I think you probably have to go to China for that. The Chinese giant salamander is critically endangered, which is directly related to being tasty. But it is now raised in farms. Various domestic animal origin species are now uncommon in the wild, so perhaps that makes it OK to eat it. Like frogs legs, and much other reptile/amphibian/bird that is eaten, it tastes rather like chicken.

But many species of salamander, especially smaller ones, are highly poisonous, which has probably evolved to discourage predators from eating them. So probably not best to go out salamander hunting for a meal.





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RE: SEER Grills....is this awesome or what ??? - 3/11/2024 10:13:42 AM   
ChrisinCowiche

 

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From: Cowiche, WA
Status: offline 		My hometown area is near the Salamander Capital of the World! Not a cookbook... yet!

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Smoky-Mountain-Salamander-Ball/dp/0937207217

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