Please explain Masseto to me.

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Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/20/2024 3:35:06 PM

Eduardo787

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What makes this wine so sought after and why is it almost $1,000 a bottle? Is it a bargain or is it overvalued when you have Petrus at $6-7k, Le Pin, Lafleur, etc ? Compared to many Napa cult wines it may seem to be a bargain, but then I can think of many Bordeaux that are extremely good and are in the $200-$300 range. Is it a " trophy " wine to show off or is it a wine that many people actually drink ?

At $850-$900 is in the range of Vega Sicilia Unico and all the first growths as well as many cult Napas, but I have no idea if Masseto has the prestige and presence of many other wines in that price range.

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/20/2024 3:52:01 PM

Jenise

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The only Massetos I've ever had were opened by label-conscious people who wanted to show off "this is how wealthy I am" or "I honor you this much" which, in a sense, is just a subtext of the first one. IOW, they're excellent wines but you're a fool to spend that much for excellence unless you need your wealth to be that conspicuous. Value is very relative.

< Message edited by Jenise -- 3/20/2024 3:53:54 PM >

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/20/2024 4:43:41 PM

Eduardo787

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenise

The only Massetos I've ever had were opened by label-conscious people who wanted to show off "this is how wealthy I am" or "I honor you this much" which, in a sense, is just a subtext of the first one. IOW, they're excellent wines but you're a fool to spend that much for excellence unless you need your wealth to be that conspicuous. Value is very relative.

Yes, I understand your point and there are many of us wine collectors that have that special bottle just as the cherry on the cake to show off our cellar. I dont have a bottle like that and I rather chose an imperial bottle of Ch.Laroque that everybody loves. I would liket to guess that many of the Massetos, Petrus, and Screagle out there are for aesthetic reasons rather than to be drank.

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/20/2024 6:40:57 PM

brettlaurvick

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I’ve had two bottles and neither were mine. The first one was 2009 and it was totally closed. No aromatics at all. Tight tight. Bottle was probably 5 or 6 years old.
Last year I had the 2020….completely opposite. Beautiful nose. Soft and round on the palette but acidity was present too. Amazing.

Can’t see myself being a buyer, but after bottle 2 - I understood it a lot better. Going rate on newer vintages are $800+ per bottle. Maybe look for one with age and better pricing

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/20/2024 8:06:40 PM

DoubleD1969

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If you’re not comfortable with $700 Scarecrow, I don’t think anyone can convince you Masseto is worth the price. My advice is to not even think about it. There are plenty of great merlots in the $200-$300 range especially in Pomerol. Some would say that $100 bottle of wine is obscene. It’s all relative.

Maybe some people bring trophy wines to offlines to show off. I’ve never gotten that vibe in several dozen offlines I’ve been. I know I brought some to share.

FWIW in my limited experience, I’ve been wowed with Unico more times than Masseto. All bottles were purchased from secondary markets. So good provenance is always a crap shoot.

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/20/2024 9:41:35 PM

Eduardo787

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleD1969

If you’re not comfortable with $700 Scarecrow, I don’t think anyone can convince you Masseto is worth the price. My advice is to not even think about it. There are plenty of great merlots in the $200-$300 range especially in Pomerol. Some would say that $100 bottle of wine is obscene. It’s all relative.

Maybe some people bring trophy wines to offlines to show off. I’ve never gotten that vibe in several dozen offlines I’ve been. I know I brought some to share.

FWIW in my limited experience, I’ve been wowed with Unico more times than Masseto. All bottles were purchased from secondary markets. So good provenance is always a crap shoot.

Just to be clear, I was not comfortable with Scarecrow because I had to buy 3 bottles, so its not $700 but rather $2100. I have had Unico 3 times and I remember I liked it but I liked more the Valbuena#5. This is one of those times when my fav wine was not the top wine or the most expensive a winery makes. BTW, I have a vertical of Valbuenas 09-10-11-12-13 and plan to open them on my next bday

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/20/2024 10:14:42 PM

skifree

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Masseto is the best merlot I have ever tasted (thank you MClancy). It was the hands down winner in a Merlot tasting I hosted with the Seattle Tasting Group, the 2011 VCC I brought was a distant second.

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/21/2024 7:08:16 AM

CranBurgundy

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https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=were+not+drinking+merlot&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:6f410cfd,vid:T7mZnhDO3To,st:0

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/21/2024 8:19:19 AM

KPB

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Italy had expensive wines long ago, maybe even before Napa found the formula. Masseto was introduced to stand next to wines like Petrus, and the reviews suggest that it succeeds. I’ve had sips from two vintages and was quite impressed, but it isn’t a wine I buy.

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/21/2024 11:06:28 AM

mye

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eduardo787
What makes this wine so sought after and why is it almost $1,000 a bottle? Is it a bargain or is it overvalued when you have Petrus at $6-7k, Le Pin, Lafleur, etc ? Compared to many Napa cult wines it may seem to be a bargain, but then I can think of many Bordeaux that are extremely good and are in the $200-$300 range. Is it a " trophy " wine to show off or is it a wine that many people actually drink ?

At $850-$900 is in the range of Vega Sicilia Unico and all the first growths as well as many cult Napas, but I have no idea if Masseto has the prestige and presence of many other wines in that price range.

A couple of ways to look at it..

One is of course principle of economics. Supply/demand/scarcity/perceived utility...
We all know wine isn't priced at a linear scale for price to quality? This is the basically the same as someone explain Ferrari to me... someone explain $10MM piece of art to me... Like why vacation to (pick your beach vacay spot), when u can go to your local beach.. it's just sand and salt water?... u're going for the experience right? it's great wine, an icon of the region, and the market accepts that price.. if u have the means and want to experience, why not?

Another way to think about it is, different people have different budget/drinking habits.
Person A might have $500 monthly budget, drink about 20 btls, and need to seek out 25/btl type of wines.. great!
Person B might have $1000 monthly budget, drink about 10 btls, and seek out $100/btl type of wines
Person C might have same 1K budget and drink 5 btls a month.. that might be the same as person B at $100/btl, except they can add a masseto type wine to the lineup every couple of months.
i don't think for any of these scenarios, we're talking beyond wealthy/billionaires..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenise
The only Massetos I've ever had were opened by label-conscious people who wanted to show off "this is how wealthy I am" or "I honor you this much" which, in a sense, is just a subtext of the first one. IOW, they're excellent wines but you're a fool to spend that much for excellence unless you need your wealth to be that conspicuous. Value is very relative.

Damnnnn. :D kinda judgey and cynical to call someone a fool for spending their money how they want to :)

We had a seattle group tasting and a member of this forum blinded us a masseto...I thought it was generous and did not think he's showing off some uber wealth, or some label flexiness..

I don't own any Massetos (i'm no fool!

)... but i've had quite a few shared by close friends, who i know for certain are not showing off label or wealth, so kinda bummer that's your only experiences

< Message edited by mye -- 3/21/2024 11:07:35 AM >

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/21/2024 4:11:53 PM

KPB

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If I cellar a wine I tend to buy it in multiple vintages at least for a while. Eventually price often rises to a point where I decide I own enough bottles. So, an issue with Masseto is that I have managed to sample it, but actually cellaring it would be a large bet on it for me.

I do sometimes get served an amazing wine and turn around and buy a bottle or two immediately. If I owned Masseto it would have happened that way. But somehow those two sips didn’t “move me” enough, I guess.

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/22/2024 6:10:06 AM

forceberry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: skifree

Masseto is the best merlot I have ever tasted. It was the hands down winner in a Merlot tasting I hosted with the Seattle Tasting Group.

I've never had Masseto myself, but a friend of mine who attended a Merlot blind tasting said the exact same thing to me (although the tasting wasn't the same) when I asked how the tasting was. He actively dislikes Italian wines in general, so he had never even heard of the wine before - and was floored when he Googled the price of the bottle...

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/22/2024 7:58:16 AM

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We've done several verticals of Masseto, courtesy of friends.
I really like it, but not enough to collect it.

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/22/2024 9:32:31 AM

wineismylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

We've done several verticals of Masseto, courtesy of friends.
I really like it, but not enough to collect it.

DING DING DING! We have a winner.

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/22/2024 9:26:11 PM

champagneinhand

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wineismylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: S1

We've done several verticals of Masseto, courtesy of friends.
I really like it, but not enough to collect it.

DING DING DING! We have a winner.

I want to elaborate on this a bit more, especially if you aren’t acquainted with S1. 1st and foremost S1 makes no secret of his absolute love of burgundy and Pinot noir. Scott also loves Fine Napa Cabs these are what I would like to call his jam. He’s got a fine palate for most every other wine and surely has tasted the best available and deservedly so hosting the brilliant offline-o-rama’s in Charleston was nothing short of brilliant. The two times I went, we’re humbling as much as massive in understanding the wine world from the very hi quality and aged greats that filled in a gap with the generosity and graciousness of all but really the hard work done by S1 and that’s logistics and cat herding.

My point is Scots not a Merlot guy and I think he’d be honest enough to admit that he probably never seeks out any solid Merlot or heavy blend on a regular basis.

While I don’t drink Massetto I don’t doubt that it could be ethereal. I drink and have for a long time, Galatrona. A very non Bordeaux expression but marvelous non the less. I am a Merlot guy. I love Italian Merlot, but it’s hard to find where it’has been done as consistently and covered as much by Parker. A great value heavy Merlot blend from the makers of Sassicaia is San Guidiberto and it punches way above its Priceline. Orma as well but still a good deal of Cab in there but right next to Sassicaia in Bolgeheri.

Merlot, if you’re a Merlot geek really, really depends on what YOU like about it and the terroir and style. A good St. E or even a Fronsac in the right year. Wonderful depending upon how you like your Merlot. If you want the massive layered behemoth a la Pomerol that can give the best of St E some shell shock but it’s so variant on terroir, the style you prefer, and are you a huge Merlot fan.

Merlot varies so much, I would really drink a lot of different good Merlot from a lot of different sub regions before ever thinking of playing Massetto on any annual basis. That and for longevity purposes I still lean harder for cooler, damper. cellars.

There’s always traveling and tasting some or buying a bottle through auction if you have to scratch that itch but wine should not ever be about keeping up with the Jones or whatever. Drink, explore have fun, repeat.

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/23/2024 6:18:10 AM

KPB

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Galatrona can be kind of harsh and a bit awkward. That wine is one I used to buy and cellar, but I stopped -- after a few vintages I felt that they just don't knit together and become supple, integrated wines.

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/23/2024 6:31:22 AM

DoubleD1969

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Great point about varietal preferences. Some people don't get Burgundy. Trying to convince them to buy $150 burgs when they can buy Bordeaux for the same price is futile. 😳

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/29/2024 1:26:50 PM

mutwonmax

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On that note... the wine maker behind Masseto and Ornellaia has been appointed as new CEO of Chateau Lascombes in Bordeaux.

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RE: Please explain Masseto to me. - 3/29/2024 3:26:57 PM

skifree

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mutwonmax

On that note... the wine maker behind Masseto and Ornellaia has been appointed as new CEO of Chateau Lascombes in Bordeaux.

I never quite know what to make of Lascombes, it is so big (120 Hectares) and spread out and has had so many style changes through the years. But the Grand Vin is typically 50 % Merlot so hopefully it will rise to Palmer-like quality at a lower price.

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